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Is There Room in the Luxury Market for Hyundai?

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Comments

  • toyetoye Posts: 351
    Toyota has been busting their own chops lately
  • fintailfintail Posts: 34,342
    Indeed, and H will capitalize on it greatly.
  • bobadbobad Posts: 1,587
    Indeed, and H will capitalize on it greatly.

    That's nothing. It's very minor compared to Toyota's other weaknesses that Hyundai is capitalizing on.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,784
    A Hyundai is tops in ALG's residual values for mid-sized segment:

    http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/2011-hyundai-sonata-gls-tops-popular-com- petitors-including-premium-brands-in-alg-residual-value-index-83845712.html

    They also noted (more on topic also):

    Hyundai's world-class quality has significantly improved the brand's residual values over the past few years. Hyundai's premium models are driving the improvement according to data released in ALG's January/February edition. The 2010 Genesis sedan achieves 47.5 percent retention of MSRP, the all-new Genesis Coupe achieves an outstanding 52.3 percent and the 2010 Veracruz retains 49 percent of its value over a 36-month period.
  • toyetoye Posts: 351
    Sorry Backy even armed with more proof about Hyundai success you'll still find those people who still think the earth is flat!!!!
  • Silly Toye...

    Everyone knows the earth is flat and the sun revolves around the earth! Actually the earth is the center of the universe! Hyundai will never be equated with luxury! Anything Japanese is luxury and Toyota will always be better than stupid copycat Hyundai!

    All kidding aside, I really liked the Hyundai commercial with the "luxury for common folk" like us! I'd rather have the luxury features on a Hyundai than having to pay an arm and a leg for some BS Infiniti/Acura/Lexus nameplate. Inside, it's still a Nissan/Honda/Toyota product.

    Did any of you check out Kia's new Optima? Looks really good!
    http://www.burlappcars.com/2010/02/2012-kia-optima.html
  • acdiiacdii Posts: 753
    The cost? If two cars have heated leather seats, but one costs more, is that the Luxury one? Lets compare two vehicles that are extremely close to each other, an RX350 and a Veracruz. Does being $10,000 more make it Luxury, even though they are both similarly equipped? They both have very smooth quiet rides, they both have Heated Leather seating, they both have rain sensing wipers, they both have automatic climate control with auto sensing exhaust blocking(whatever they call it, it closes a damper to recirculate when it detects exhaust fumes), they both have a great sounding stereos, oh wait, the Veracruz does, the Lexus I test drove did not, the Lexus does not have a 3rd row seat. As far as power is concerned, the Lexus MUST use 90+ octane, the VC does not, but if it does use 90+ it has the same HP ratings as the Lexus. A little known fact, the Hyundai can detect the Octane rating of the fuel and adjust the engine timing and fuel flow accordingly as if you added a tune to it. I didn't believe it until I tried it, and after a tank you can feel a difference in performance(probably why my tires aren't biting the snow like they did last year :blush: ).

    So is the Lexus a luxury because it cost $10K more? If so that L badge needs to be relocated, preferably to a forehead.

    I test drove an RX400h, the interior was nice, the only thing I saw though that was just a bit better was the thickness of the plastic in the doors, the leather seats made me sweat. The ride was smooth and quiet, but when I stepped on the throttle all I heard was a loud engine that sounded like it wanted to leave the vehicle. If the sunroof was open, or a window was open, forget about trying to listen to the radio, no matter how much you try to turn it up, you just could not hear it. It did not have XM, did not play MP3 disks, and did not have an AUX input for an MP3 player. The display for the hybrid and NAV was identical to a $20k Prius. This was a used one, and I just could not see myself paying $27K for it, MAYBE $19K, but surely not what the going rate is for it.

    FWIW Hyundai stepped up to the plate and hit a home run with the Veracruz, and if they keep at it, they can do the same with the sedan against the ES lineup( you know the Camry with an L on its hood).
  • bobadbobad Posts: 1,587
    You should write with more passion and bias. Logic and objectivity will get you nowhere. ;)
  • smarty666smarty666 Posts: 1,503
    oh no, another anti-Japanese car hater who dramatizes and blows any problem with a Japanese car way out of proportion! no bias there of course!
  • acdiiacdii Posts: 753
    Oh no bias from someone who OWNED and DROVE a Prius AND a Camry Hybrid for 3 years and 58,000 miles. :P

    Believe me the quality on both cars was sub par, I can see it on the Prius since it used recycled material, and to keep the cost down, but the Camry I fully expected better quality for a car rated so highly. You want bias? Talk to a Toyota owner who would never even think about looking, let alone test driving a Fusion.

    And an ES300 is a Camry with a different letter on its hood! :lemon:

    But if you want to spend $46,000 on a car that is really no better than another car that is $10,000 less, go right ahead, I will stay on the smart side and drive the $36,000 one and be even happier since I don't need to put high octane in it! :shades:
  • smarty666smarty666 Posts: 1,503
    Have you ever even driven a Camry XLE and a ES350 back to back? I have and there was a world of difference between the two vehicles in regards to quality, refinement, ride, etc; most people who say what you do about the Camry/ES350 thing just are disappointed with Toyota for some reason and want to trash on them as much as possible or because they can't afford a luxury car :cry: !

    your numbers are also way off base because you again over dramatize the numbers by loading the vehicle up; a Camry XLE V6 can be around 30k while a semi loaded ES350 is about 36-37k, not this 10-15k price difference your quoting; it can get that high if you load the cars up with nav and every tech feature in the word but most people, like myself don't door need that :) !

    your also paying for the much better customer service, loaner cars, and dealer experience with the luxury cars then the regular division cars and trust me, after having luxury and non-luxury Japanese cars there is most certainly a difference in customer service and dealership experience between the luxury and non-luxury divisions!

    but as you pointed out, some people don't need a luxury car or want to spend the extra money for the higher quality material and service and that is fine, but don't sit there and they trash talk the luxury cars that they are overpriced and not worth it; you can get some luxury cars for really good prices without breaking the bank if you load them up correctly!
  • tjc78tjc78 JerseyPosts: 5,025
    I will stay on the smart side and drive the $36,000 one and be even happier since I don't need to put high octane in it!

    Do you realize that the Camry V6 and the ES350 use the exact same powertrain? The only reason the Lexus shows premium fuel as a requirement is that the HP is rated at 272HP. The Camry is rated at 268HP using regular. The computer adjusts for the octane used. I had an Avalon with the 2GR V6 (same as Camry/ES) and the manual specifically stated regualar was ok but for "enhanced performance" premium could be used.

    I would assume that Lexus figures people shopping the price segment of the ES won't mind spending a little extra for that "enhanced performance" thus publishes the higher HP # along with the premium fuel requirement.

    1999 Chevy S10 / 2004 Merc Grand Marquis / 2012 Buick LaCrosse

  • sedan. Ladies and gentlemen, take a look at the 2012 Kia Optima.

    image

    Since I left the daily Kia driving experience the boys from SK have only gotten better. The acquisition of Mr.Peter Schreyer as their new Design Chief (from Audi Motors) was a big and important one.

    Beautiful car.

    2011 Kia Soul Sport 5-speed

  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,784
    A great looking car (albeit an artist's conception, not a real photo, yes?), but... a luxury car??

    Don't get too enamored by artist's conceptions... reality is usually different.
  • backy, I only clicked on the link in a post above in this very thread to see this new Optima design. But, you're right, it's a midsize sedan, and although it may be construed as looking luxurious, it's more an exciting looking sedan from Kia.

    More sporty and beautiful looking than luxurious. Kia would really have to pour on the interior amenities to have it even be remotely thought of as luxurious. And the luxurious crowd seems to be a pretty discriminating bunch.

    Yeah, this new Kia Optima is not gonna fall in to the luxo category in any shape and form. But did they ever do a good job with it! ;)

    2011 Kia Soul Sport 5-speed

  • doesn't that look very chevy-ish? like a cross between volt and malibu.
  • fintailfintail Posts: 34,342
    That's a pretty rough drawing of a car. Hard to guess what the finished product will look like, based on that. But the current Optima is so painfully beige, it probably will be an improvement.

    I too see the Chevy face, reminds me of a Camaro sedan.

    Hyundai and Kia both are well served by hiring some outside design talent...as the designs so far haven't exactly been classic.

    Audi doesn't feel a need to add "Motors" to their name, they know they won't be confused for a toaster or bicycle manufacturer :P
  • bobadbobad Posts: 1,587
    @ergsum,

    What do you think of the new Azera's styling? Looks pretty conservative to me. Pictures can be misleading, so I will reserve judgment until I see one on the lot.

    Found a driver review (not professional) on another forum for the 2011 Sonata.

    Sounds like the new Sonata is better than ever, with improvements in every area. More power in the i4, quieter, better handling, quieter cabin (already very quiet!), very comfortable seating, better quality interior materials, attractive dash, many convenience items.
  • houdini1houdini1 Kansas City areaPosts: 6,067
    Yeah, that grill sure looks like the chevy bow tie to me. Also reminds me of the Camaro from the front. Hopefully they will clean it up.

    2013 LX 570 2010 LS 460 2002 Tacoma 4x4

  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,784
    Unlikely they'll "clean it up". It's the standard Kia grille style and has been for some time, going back to the 2009 Optima in 2008. There's a similar grille on all the new Kias except the funky Soul: Forte, Optima, and Sorrento.
  • captain2captain2 Posts: 3,971
    Have you ever even driven a Camry XLE and a ES350 back to back? I have and there was a world of difference between the two vehicles in regards to quality, refinement, ride, etc;
    EXACTLY - there are a lot of folks that think the high end Camry and the ES are nothing more than rebadges done at the Toyota plants in Ky. Not the case. The ES as other Lexus branded products are actually assembled in Japan and do use parts (engine, tranny etc.) that are exported to Japan from here. The other differences in the ES's' fit/finish and interior qualities is largely because it is a Lexus and not a Toyota - a justification (for some) for the $15k premium- along with a demonstration that the Lexus 'badge' does indeed have some value . It's not like you are getting screwed buying an ES - the Camry XLE and the ES are hardly the same car - as you say.
  • houdini1houdini1 Kansas City areaPosts: 6,067
    Is that the standard bow tie windshield also?

    2013 LX 570 2010 LS 460 2002 Tacoma 4x4

  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,784
    I don't know. Can you tell me what a "bow tie windshield" looks like?
  • houdini1houdini1 Kansas City areaPosts: 6,067
    I know, I have never seen anything like it before either. I am referring to those weird little cut outs on the upper corners of the windshield. Supposedly to harmonize with the bow tie grill. Does that help?

    2013 LX 570 2010 LS 460 2002 Tacoma 4x4

  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,784
    Well, I wouldn't call it a "bow tie". But I think it looks kinda cool. I just wonder: 1) how much that glass would cost to replace, and 2) if that design will survive to the real car. I'll bet the answer is "no" on #2.
  • captain2captain2 Posts: 3,971
    the Veracruz may be every bit as luxurious and otherwise comparable to an RX, BUT price notwithstanding the Veracruz will never be a luxury anything simply because it is a Hyundai. While I personally regard the lower end Lexus' (RX and ES) products as entry level, Lexus is nonetheless a luxury brand.
    A slightly upgraded Veracruz rebranded as a 'Genesis' sold for a few more $ and sold only where other Genesis' are sold, could easily find a place amongst 'luxury' vehicles, it is that good.
  • smarty666smarty666 Posts: 1,503
    What really is a pain with cars like the Genesis, Maxima, and Avalon is, when you load them up, even a little bit they really encroach into luxury division prices despite the fact your still dealing with mediocre Hyundai, Nissan, and Toyota customer service and dealership experience, which obviously improves when you move up to a luxury division!

    the question is, it worth it to pay the money or spend the same if not a few thousand more to move up to the luxury divisions, namely Infiniti and Lexus; I forget Hyundai doesn't have a luxury division! that really is what makes the Genesis an oddity!
  • tjc78tjc78 JerseyPosts: 5,025
    I forget Hyundai doesn't have a luxury division! that really is what makes the Genesis an oddity!

    Why is the Genesis any different than the Maxima and Avalon?

    1999 Chevy S10 / 2004 Merc Grand Marquis / 2012 Buick LaCrosse

  • toyetoye Posts: 351
    RWD is the main reason
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