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Is There Room in the Luxury Market for Hyundai?

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Comments

  • bobadbobad Posts: 1,587
    Reliability is somewhat of a secondary consideration for the true luxury buyer

    Source? (See, 2 can play at that silly game! :blush:)

    I reject your viewpoint. When I car shop, nothing trumps reliability. I bet you there are a lot more car buyers that care about reliability than not. I'm not going to let a 5%'er dictate to me what I want in a car. In the real world, it doesn't matter to the average car buyer what a few pious car buffs think.
  • bobadbobad Posts: 1,587
    edited March 2010
    Look at TVs - a fast changing inductry if there ever was one - long ruled by Sony - a luxury brand if there ever was one. Even today folks are going to look at that Sony sitting in your living room and somehow KNOW you bought the best - the fact that Samsung might now be making better TVs is not the point.

    Very good point.

    Even though I'm ahead of the curve and have a better TV at a better price, I'm looked down upon for owning a Samsung. Somehow, that doesn't make me feel inferior, but superior. It's my opinion (among a growing body of opinions) that Genesis owners (and 06-11 Sonata, and Vera Cruz) are ahead of the curve.
  • fintailfintail Posts: 33,596
    I don't know if Samsungs are actually looked down upon anymore.

    06 Sonata is ahead of what curve?
  • captain2captain2 Posts: 3,971
    I reject your viewpoint. When I car shop, nothing trumps reliability
    and that's fine - you would seemingly be a natural for a Lexus product and NOT a likely buyer of a German sedan. Or not the usual luxury buyer at all, perhaps.
    A few 'pious' car buffs is what the 'luxury' car market is all about and is who the luxury mfgrs largely cater to. What you might personally think of them or what their motivations are is of no import, it is not your money that those particular mfgrs are after.
  • captain2captain2 Posts: 3,971
    I'm looked down upon for owning a Samsung.
    and that, my friend, is all I'm saying here - just replace Samsung with Hyundai. In both cases not necessarily anything based in fact - only in perceptions.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,695
    Do you suppose many luxury buyers put up with below-par reliability not because reliability isn't important to them, but because there are (were) so few alternatives, especially alternatives that offer good reliability?

    So maybe an automaker that can offer an alternative that is functionally comparable to these less-reliable luxury cars, but also have solid reliability, will have a good chance of carving out a slice of the luxury market.
  • steverstever YooperlandPosts: 40,209

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  • captain2captain2 Posts: 3,971
    Do you suppose many luxury buyers put up with below-par reliability not because reliability isn't important to them
    No, not very likely I do think that the luxury buyer, particularly those that would consider themselves enthusiasts, understand that with the sophistication (and extended dynamic capabilties) of those particular cars - that there is a price to pay. Lexus does largely seem to avoid this condition but then again, the enthusiast will not have much good to say about Lexus products - they are too 'American'.

    I do think that it is a bit early to proclaim Hyundai ' a reliable brand' (remember we are talking perceptions here) or FTM the Genesis a reliable car - although it is apparent that Hyundai is thought to be improving and the actual returns on the V6 Gen are decent - the V8 apparently not as good.
  • captain2captain2 Posts: 3,971
    captain2-do you research new products and get excited about them? Or are you forever going to be stuck in this past-looking glitch-mode of sorts being pesty towards Hyundai?
    yep and the Genesis would be one of those. But you see, whether the Genesis (or any other Hyundai product) has improved or are universally great buys ALL has nothing to do with this topic IMO- which is about Hyundai having a place in the 'luxury' market. Well, Hyundai can't for the same reason that Chevy, Ford, Toyota, Nissan etc. etc. can't - they are all mass market brands. IT HAS NOTHING REALLY TO DO WITH ANY PARTICULAR PRODUCT[s]might make. A luxury car requires a luxury brand and Hyundai, at least right now, is the antithesis of a luxury brand.
    That Genesis badge on the previous post
    is exactly what Hyundai needs to do BTW, something to differentiate it for the Accents/Elantrsa/Sonatas of the world BEFORE they take the next logical step - the 'ritzy' Genesis specific dealer.
  • steverstever YooperlandPosts: 40,209
    they are all mass market brands

    That leaves out Mercedes and most of the rest too then.

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  • captain2captain2 Posts: 3,971
    That leaves out Mercedes and most of the rest too then.
    we'll differ on that one - there is no such thing as a $10k MB or BMW or Lexus or Infiniti etc etc. but there is in the case of Chevy/Toyota/Hyundai etc. $10k cars can and are sold to pretty much any and everybody, $35K+ (as in the entry level lux branded models) not so. The buyer income demographic would sure be different as well.
  • captain2captain2 Posts: 3,971
    i>big-time brand snob
    and if that's the case I'm not nearly the only one - would even bet to some degree that as such I am in the majority. Some folks got it worse than others, perhaps.
    BTW I'll admit to owning the Sonys, but drive 'mass market' Toyotas and Nissans. Would love to own/drive one of those German sedans but honestly can't justify the cost, much in the same way $300-$400k is much more than I would be willing to spend on a silly house (in Texas) - in any neighborhood. Guess that if I'm a brand snob, I'm a really crappy one.

    PS you must not be understanding my posts BTW as I have nothing against Hyundai or its products - my comments are only concerning how Hyundai is thought of in the car biz right now and how that effects any 'luxury' ambitions they might have.
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    in the Luxury Market is the H on the back. Otherwise, IMO, it's got all the ingredients it needs to play in that sandbox. Especially the V-8. It's very peppy, handles well, rides ok (little choppy, but not bad) is RWD, and very luxurious. I just don't think serious Luxury shoppers will buy a Hyundai anymore than they'll buy something with FORD or TOYOTA on the back, even if made by that company. They'll sell some, maybe even enough, but I doubt if it will take over the market, even at that great price point. Just my opinion, I could be wrong. I once thought the Nissan Titan would take over the F-150 forever, and look how wrong I was.
  • toyetoye Posts: 351
    I may be wrong but aren't BMW, MB etc much cheaper over in Europe than here in the states...
  • fintailfintail Posts: 33,596
    edited March 2010
    With the exchange rate, equivalent models are much more expensive in Europe - so much we get as standard is optional there.

    They do have some cheaper models - very basic 1ers and A-class etc, but as we'll never see those, they can't be compared.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,695
    No, not very likely I do think that the luxury buyer, particularly those that would consider themselves enthusiasts, understand that with the sophistication (and extended dynamic capabilties) of those particular cars - that there is a price to pay. Lexus does largely seem to avoid this condition...

    You made a point and then contradicted yourself in the same sentence. There is no price to pay if the right car is selected. Lexus, or Infiniti (which has beat the likes of BMW in at least some comparos, so please don't use the "too American" line on them), and Acura assuming they are considered a luxury brand. And Hyundai. If you don't like the H badge, rip it off and put on one of those aftermarket Genesis badges and drive happy, secure in the thought that you won't be laughed at for driving a lowly Hyundai. No, you are driving a classy, luxury Genesis... uh... what is a "Genesis" again???
  • smarty666smarty666 Posts: 1,503
    not to add insult to injury with BMW backy, but BMW just got their butt handed to them by Audi in the last 3 comparison tests done consecutively by Car and Driver! take that BMW :P
  • captain2captain2 Posts: 3,971
    Lexus, or Infiniti (which has beat the likes of BMW in at least some comparos, so please don't use the "too American" line on them), and Acura assuming they are considered a luxury brand
    you obviously don't know enough to appreciate the real differences between many of those German luxos vs. the Japanese ones. 'Too American' is a condition of a softer boulevard ride compromise common to primarily Lexus products and generally dismissed as such by those enthusiasts that prefer the tighter, harsher, and a bit more controlled ride offered by most of the German products. Read some of fintail's posts - drives an E and would no sooner darken the doorstep of a Lexus dealer than he would a Hyundai dealer - for those kind of reasons.
    You can make light of all those folks that are shallow enough to want to have that 'special' recognition of the Genesis badge - but it is at the point that Hyundai recognizes that those folks NEED that kind of thing (and are willing to pay for it) , that possibly the Gen Sedan becomes a luxury car.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,695
    you obviously don't know enough to appreciate the real differences between many of those German luxos vs. the Japanese ones.

    Yep, that's right. I am an idiot and my opinions mean nothing. :P

    As long as you are OK with hurling insults vs. having a civil discussion, how about this: DO YOU HAVE A READING COMPREHENSION PROBLEM? Do you understand the difference between the words "Lexus", "Infiniti", and "Acura"? If not, I think you can get professional help on that.
  • acdiiacdii Posts: 753
    Too American' is a condition of a softer boulevard ride compromise common to primarily Lexus products and generally dismissed as such by those enthusiasts that prefer the tighter, harsher, and a bit more controlled ride offered by most of the German products.

    I read this and laughed. Too American! ROFLMAO I got rid of a Camry for a Ford Fusion, an American car, because it has a stiffer, more controlled ride than the Camry. I like how I can feel the road in the car, and take the harsher ride for better control than what I had in the Camry. Too funny to see that comment! :shades:
  • fintailfintail Posts: 33,596
    Actually, I would in a heartbeat take a Genesis over a Lexus ES, I wouldn't even have to think about it ;)
  • tjc78tjc78 JerseyPosts: 5,025
    Too American! ROFLMAO I got rid of a Camry for a Ford Fusion, an American car, because it has a stiffer, more controlled ride than the Camry.

    Well... until Toyota's recent problems the Camry was the best selling car in America.....to me that says a good majority of Americans like soft and floaty. Actually, my Mother has an '09 Camry SE and the dealer explained more than once that it "doesn't ride like a typical Camry" this was because several customer's didn't do enough research and complained after the fact that the ride was hard.

    1999 Chevy S10 / 2004 Merc Grand Marquis / 2012 Buick LaCrosse

  • tjc78tjc78 JerseyPosts: 5,025
    Actually, I would in a heartbeat take a Genesis over a Lexus ES

    I stuggled with that decision and took the Genesis over the ES because it was a better value and a larger size. The Genesis handles better, but as expected the ES's ride is much better.

    1999 Chevy S10 / 2004 Merc Grand Marquis / 2012 Buick LaCrosse

  • fintailfintail Posts: 33,596
    I think you would have been happier in something like this:

    image

    :shades:

    Are you unhappy with the ride on the Genesis? Could you do anything to correct it?
  • smarty666smarty666 Posts: 1,503
    I felt the exact same way after test driving the Genesis last year!!
  • tjc78tjc78 JerseyPosts: 5,025
    I think you would have been happier in something like this:

    Funny... I had a 79 Continental Coupe! From the project cars forum you may have noticed my love of land yachts... Love that example a 78 Mark V Diamond Jubilee.

    Are you unhappy with the ride on the Genesis? Could you do anything to correct it?

    I really am. After years of driving everything floaty I figured it was time for something a little different. I drove the Genesis a few times (before buying) and felt it was a decent compromise between handling and ride. What I discovered too late is that compromise ends up providing a jittery, nervous ride. As for correcting it, many people in the Genesis Owner's forum suggest swapping out the 2010 suspension,different tires, etc and none of it interests me. I have about two years left on my lease, and figure I'll be able to dump it in around 18 months. I'll be back to an Avalon/ES350 or maybe even a LaCrosse. It is really a shame because I like just about everything about the car except the ride. It also hasn't been to the dealer for anything except an alignment right after delivery and a few oil changes.

    1999 Chevy S10 / 2004 Merc Grand Marquis / 2012 Buick LaCrosse

  • fintailfintail Posts: 33,596
    I knew you'd appreciate that :P

    Yeah, if you are in a lease, it is silly to sink money into suspension mods. Maybe in the future there will be models with different suspension tuning choices. It's hard to be one size fits all in that arena.

    I will admit my E55 can be harsh on the decayed rutted roads in my area...but I deal with it, for the handling it affords. Not to mention constantly dodging the potholes and dips keeps me alert :shades:
  • lemkolemko Posts: 15,155
    Shoot, that looks like andre1969's friend's car!
  • tjc78tjc78 JerseyPosts: 5,025
    Maybe in the future there will be models with different suspension tuning choices. It's hard to be one size fits all in that arena.

    I couldn't agree more.

    1999 Chevy S10 / 2004 Merc Grand Marquis / 2012 Buick LaCrosse

  • bobadbobad Posts: 1,587
    Read again. I said 06-11 Sonata (and Genesis, Vera Cruz) owners are ahead of the curve, not necessarily the cars.
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