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Is There Room in the Luxury Market for Hyundai?



  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,624
  • fintailfintail Posts: 32,907
    Hyundai sells in all ends of the market right now? That's news to me :shades:
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,624
    OK, not in the over-$50k class. Wait a few months. The horse ain't goin' nowhere, anyway. ;)
  • fintailfintail Posts: 32,907
    In my eyes, there are many distinct market groups in the over-50K segment.
  • toyetoye Posts: 351
    yeah,,,,,only M and B
  • fintailfintail Posts: 32,907
    Not quite...but it is silly to claim that 50K+ is one borderless segment from there upwards.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,624
    It all depends on your classification scheme. If you want to segment the market in small slices, then no one automaker covers the entire spectrum of the market. So not a big deal that Hyundai does not do that, is it?
  • fintailfintail Posts: 32,907
    I can't imagine any credible voice claiming that the market ends at 50K and up with no further divisions.

    Yes, it is no big deal that H doesn't do everything, just amusing if someone claims H actually does do everything ;)
  • toyetoye Posts: 351
    As far as type of vehicles produced H doesn't do pickups or convertibles.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,624
    Well, claims the market classification ends at $85k and up, even though there's many vehicles that cost 3x or more, even over $1 million. So I guess Edmunds isn't credible either, in your eyes.

    And btw, no one claimed that Hyundai "does everything." But based on how one segments the market, they do cover the entire market price-wise. For example, since the Equus 5.0 sells for over $85k in the ROK, then in Edmunds' eyes at least, Hyundai does cover the entire market spectrum, price-wise. I know you will find that amusing. ;)
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,624
    edited April 2010
    Actually, Hyundai does do pickups... just not in the USA.

    As for convertibles, that is such a small slice of the market, I can understand why Hyundai has said "no" to the idea, e.g. a Genesis coupe convertible. Look at Hyundai's main competitors, the J3. Only one of them offers a convertible in the USA--the 370Z. Toyota and Honda used to offer convertibles here, but no more. Must have realized it wasn't worth the effort and cost.
  • fintailfintail Posts: 32,907
    Or high performance tuned cars or super/sports cars or true world class luxobarges...

    Convertibles and pickups can be divided into several categories as well.
  • j2jj2j Posts: 147
    "I would qualify that to say that marketing of the brand reputation is the real story."

    - Very true.

    By superior marketing, Rolex was able to surpass Omega and hence, command significantly higher prices (a no. of decades ago, the Rolex Submariner and Omega Seamaster were pretty close in price).
  • j2jj2j Posts: 147
    "Just another reason why the solid reliability record of the Genesis sedan to date is all the more impressive.
    'to date' is the key phrase there - reminder that Hyundai's first effort at going upscale, the Azera, did much worse in its second year than its first."

    - The 2nd year was a blip - all the other years have been above average in CR's reliability ratings.
  • j2jj2j Posts: 147
    "Just like the Avalon, the Maxima, the Taurus etc. it is really what a 'flagship' of a mass market brand should be. The Genesis IMO to me oversteps what the carbuyer is willing to accept from a mfgr called Hyundai. Call it something else, and sell it somewhere else, we might have a different story.

    Unfortunately now though I see the Azera as an abandoned child, as Hyundai endeavors to make an impact in a market that they plainly don't belong - at least not the way they are attempting to do it."

    - And yet the sales of the Genesis sedan over the past year and a half have outsold the Lexus GS and Infiniti M by a 2 to 1 margin.

    Even the new M's sale's figure is about where the Genesis sedan is selling on a monthly basis.

    As for the Azera, it was a nice effort by Hyundai but not as competitive in its segment (large, upscale FWD sedan) as the Avalon and the new Taurus and Maxima.

    Plus, Hyundai put nothing into marketing the Azera on television.

    The next-gen Azera should do for Hyundai in the large, upscale FWD sedan segment what the new Sonata is currently doing for Hyundai in the mainstream mid-size sedan segment.
  • j2jj2j Posts: 147
    "that number was discussed here on this forum for months - something like a paltry 25%? And that number a claim by a Hyundai exec who conveniently gets to define what he thinks luxury cars are and are not"

    Uhh, that figure was 40%, not 25% - and the Hyundai exec was referring to brands like BMW, Infiniti, etc. - and that 40% conquest rate is probably very similar for models like the CTS, ES, IS and G37 (I guess they aren't "luxury" either).

    "and yes BTW the Genesis is NOT a luxury car in my opinion - and it has little to do with the car itself and EVERYTHING to do with brand reputations and perceptions."

    So the Toyota Century, the flagship of the Toyota.Lexus fleet, isn't a luxury auto since it's branded a Toyota?

    And yet the Acura CSX, basically a rebadged JDM Civic, is b/c of the badge? lol
  • j2jj2j Posts: 147
    Again, you are confusing "luxury vehicle" with "luxury brand"
    no I'm not - and this I have been very consistent on - a luxury vehicle MUST have a luxury brand AND a luxury vehicle is more than just a assembly of specs and other bling.

    On that basis, the Toyota Celsior (aka the Lexus LS) was not a luxury vehicle despite the only difference being the badge, and I guess members of the Japanese royal family do not ride in a, "luxury" vehicle due to the Century being a Toyota.

    That means the Nissan Cima, which used to sold in the US as the Q45, was not a luxury vehicle as well; not to mention the Nissan President which is even higher up on the Nissan hierarchy.

    Luxury vehicle and luxury brand do not always correlate - plenty of people would say the Mercedes A and B Classes, much less the C Class, are not luxury vehicles despite the Mercedes star emblem on the hood.

    None other than Ferdinand Piëch regarded the VW Phaeton to be a luxury vehicle (I'd say his opinion holds much more sway than yours).

    Under Piëch's command, the Phaeton was engineered to be better than the A8, w/ the Phaeton sharing the same platform w/ the Bentley Continental GT and Bentley Continental Flying Spur (something that the A8 does not).

    To say that the Phaeton isn't a luxury vehicle while the A6, much less the A4 and A1 are, is quite ludicrous.
  • bobadbobad Posts: 1,587
    I am very happy that you obviously have a high opinion of Hyundai and its products, but sales statistics would indicate you are in the minority

    That's my whole point: WHY are Hyundai sales so low? The answer is, for no good reason.

    Don't be offended by the word "ignorance". Look it up, it simply means "Lacking information or knowledge", and is not derogatory.
  • Stever@EdmundsStever@Edmunds YooperlandPosts: 38,946
    edited April 2010
    In the context of a forum, tossing "ignorant" around is abusive. Especially so since you can't read the body language of the poster. Words often have more than one pure dictionary meaning and you know that that's a trigger word. People see that and entirely miss whatever point you were trying to make.

    Shall we get back to Hyundais please? (and it seems like being in the minority would be a luxury characteristic - otherwise you're talking about a mass market commodity item).
  • bobadbobad Posts: 1,587
    edited April 2010
    The next-gen Azera should do for Hyundai in the large, upscale FWD sedan segment what the new Sonata is currently doing for Hyundai in the mainstream mid-size sedan segment

    I think you're right.

    When Hyundai announced the new Sonata would be 4cyl only, it left a hole in their lineup. The most logical way to fill it is with the new Azera. I think the price will overlap Sonata and Genesis sedan slightly, and it probably won't offer a 4cyl. I'm guessing it will compete with Avalon and even V6 Camry and Accord.
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