Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Is There Room in the Luxury Market for Hyundai?



  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,628
    ...has the market really demonstrated that it is ready for even a $30k Hyundai branded product...

    Do you have any idea how many Veracruzes, Azeras, Genesises, and even Entourages that Hyundai has sold for over $30k in the past few years? Any idea at all? No, I didn't think so. How ever many it was, I expect no number would be good enough for you to think that "the market" (translated: captain2) is ready for a $30k Hyundai branded product.
  • j2jj2j Posts: 147
    It also means that the LS400 must have been cross-shopped mostly w/ the C Class and 3 Series and not even the E Class and 5 Series, since it was closer in price to the C and 3.

    "Quite possibly in the same way that some are looking at the Genesis over a G in that it offers a larger car at a similar price."

    ^ So that would imply that the Genesis is a luxury vehicle since you insinuate that the Genesis is a competitor to the G.

    And really, pretty much all LS400 owners would have a conniption if they were told that their Lexus was more a C Class competitor, instead of an S Class competitor.
  • j2jj2j Posts: 147
    this is the first I've heard of this and obviously a coupla steps in the right direction if any 'room' is to be found. Gotta keep those 'luxury' Genesis branded products and customers away from those mere Hyundai products & buyers - that's the kind of thing that works here in the good ole US of A! I actually suggested this early on, in this very forum - somebody listening? Nah, not likely

    Uhh, your point was already MOOT since Hyundai has plans to launch a lux brand in 5-6 years time (which I had already stated a no. of time - I guess you weren't listening).

    Besides, it's not like there hasn't been "mixing" in auto retail sales before.

    Prior to the sale of Aston and Jaguar, the Manhattan Ford dealership sold Astons, Jags, Lincolns and Fords on the same floor, albeit w/ each having their "separate" showroom.

    Not much diff. from what Hyundai is doing w/ the Equus - each Hyundai dealership selling the Equus is required to display the Equus in a separate showroom.

    Anyway, it's not like the 60K-80K+ Corvettes, GT-Rs and Land Cruisers aren't sold alongside the more mundane Chevys, Nissans and Toyotas.
  • j2jj2j Posts: 147
    "you obviously aren't reading my posts and following the herd here in assumming I'm some sort of Hyundai basher. Quite to the contrary actually. Yes the comment that the Sonata could be used as 'entry level' in the same manner as a MB C or 3 series BMW is laughable but it is NOT because it is the Sonata in this case isn't a fine car. It is because it is a Hyundai. The same comment would apply for the Camry, Accord, Fusion or whatever - they, along with the Sonata are ALL mass marketed 'appliances' - something that the BMW 3 is decidedly not - despite being reasonably high volume."

    Give me a break - you totally misread the whole point the other poster was making about the 3 Series.

    And speaking of appliances the fact that the ES does so well, given what the car actually is, is yet another testimony for the importance of brand reputation,. brand recognition and the American consumer's sensitivity to both - and even another illustration why Hyundai will never get there as a 'luxury' brand.

    And yet, the Lexus branded GS (the most closely related to the Genesis), despite the Lexus brand reputation, etc. over the past couple of years has been a sales failure (selling about 500-600 units a month).

    And it appears that the brand new Infiniti M may very well be outsold by the Genesis this year as well.

    And try understanding the distinction btwn luxury brand and product.

    I never stated that Hyundai is or ever will be a "luxury" brand.
  • j2jj2j Posts: 147

    It is Hyundai can make a list like this:

    1. BMW $21.82 -- (25)

    2. Toyota $21.77 -- (26)

    3. Honda $14.30 -- (46)

    4. Mercedes $13.74 -- (53)

    5. Porsche $12.02 -- (65)

    6. Nissan $8.61 -- (86)

    7. Ford $7.04 -- *

    8. VW $6.99 -- *

    9. Audi $3.62 -- *

    10. Renault $3.26

    Gee, I can come up w/ brand rankings that say different.

    2009 Interbrand Ranking
    Automotive Brand Value Change Top 100
    Ranking Brand (US $Bil) Y-o-Y Ranking
    ------- ------- -------- ----- -------
    1 Toyota 31.3 -8% 8
    --- ------- ---- --- ---
    2 M-Benz 23.9 -7% 12
    --- ------- ---- --- ---
    3 BMW 21.7 -7% 15
    --- ------- ---- --- ---
    4 Honda 17.8 -7% 18
    --- ------- ---- --- ---
    5 Ford 7.0 -11% 49
    --- ------- ---- --- ---
    6 VW 6.5 -8% 55
    --- ------- ---- --- ---
    7 Audi 5.0 -7% 65
    --- ------- ---- --- ---
    8 Hyundai 4.6 -5% 69
    --- ------- ---- --- ---
    9 Porsche 4.2 -8% 74
    --- ------- ---- --- ---
    10 Ferrari 3.5 0% 88
    --- ------- ---- --- ---
    11 Lexus 3.15 -12% 96
    --- ------- ---- --- ---
  • j2jj2j Posts: 147
    "Since reliability, though, seems to be your primary motivation I would suggest to you two things:
    1) there do remain better choices than (most) Hyundai products in that regard and,
    2) product reliability has historically meant little to those in the market for true luxury cars."

    Talk about speaking from both sides.

    First off, among mainstream brands, there aren't that many better choices w/ regard to reliability.

    And product reliability has been crucial to the success of Lexus in the US.
  • j2jj2j Posts: 147
    "well if that is the case with the BusinessWeek/Interbrand study, then there is no reason why Hyundai shouldn't get their butt in gear and restructure both Hyundai and Kia, so that Kia becomes the mainstream brand to compete with Toyota, Honda, Nissan, GM, and Ford while Hyundai competes with all the other luxury divisions.

    Hyundai then is going to have to get rid of most of their models below the Azera and either downgrade/integrate them into the Kia brand, either by expanding Kia models or getting rid of some all ready existing Kia models and making for instance, the Kia Sonata, Kia Elantra, Kia Tiburon, etc etc! "

    Yeah, getting rid of the Sonata, Santa Fe, Elantra and Tuscon is real smart.

    Again, it's a moot point since Hyundai is planning on launching a lux brand in 5-6 years time.
  • j2jj2j Posts: 147
    "A good portion of what makes a luxury brand is the exclusivity (and price premium) attached to the products so branded."

    Yeah, cuz the Mercedes A and B Classes are so "exclusive", not to mention all the E Class taxis in Europe.
  • j2jj2j Posts: 147
    "Another difference might be design...the Phaeton was/is (as it is still sold in Europe) a smooth Teutonic design, where the Equus is an old and kind of weird KDM design...that might make up for some differential when it comes to market acceptance. Some people did buy Phaetons, just as some will buy Equus."

    While the Equus is a bit too "old style" for my taste - it nonetheless, still looks more aggressive (w/ the horizontally-slatted grill) looks more aggressive/sleek than the snore S Class.

    As for design, the Phaeton's design was a big part for its failure (along w/ its overinflated price-tag).

    The Phaeton had the VW corporate front and rear fascias - few people wanted to drive around in a larger and much more expensive Passat (there's a reason why the Equus looks nothing like the Sonata/Elantra and why the LS looks little like the Camry/Corolla).
  • j2jj2j Posts: 147
    "Given that the $25k Azera has not sold very well, and that even the $35k Gen sedan sales pale in comparison to the sales figures for other (upscale) sedans in its price category, the question remains, in my mind, has the market really demonstrated that it is ready for even a $30k Hyundai branded product - never mind one that is 60????"

    - The Azera was a decent, but hardly an award-winning product like the Genesis sedan (plus, Hyundai didn't market the Azera at all; that'll change w/ the next-gen Azera).

    The Genesis sedan outsold all other import E segment sedans aside from the E Class and 5 Series in 2009; outselling the Lexus GS and Infiniti M by a 2:1 margin. And from the looks of it, the Genesis sedan may very well outsell the new M this year.

    And again, Hyundai isn't planning on big sales for the Equus, which is why they are only planning on an annual alottment of about 2K a year (the 1st year's alottment is already taken; those interested in the Equus get put on the waiting list).

    Hyundai is using the Equus has a "halo" vehicle to get the public used to the idea of a luxury vehicle from Hyundai - thus paving the way for a smoother introduction of its luxury brand (why is there a need to have to keep repeating this?).
  • smarty666smarty666 Posts: 1,503
    I never said they should get rid of those models. If Hyundai launches its own separate luxury division at some future point then they wouldn't have to do anything to those models!
  • lemkolemko Posts: 15,073
    Well, the original LS was priced more in the C-Class range. From a driving dynamics standpoint, I'd say the LS' closest competitor is a Buick Park Avenue. No offense! I love the Park Ave!
  • ergsumergsum Posts: 139
    Interesting. Who would have thought we would see an article like this ten, or even five years ago.

    Hyundai vs BMW
  • captain2captain2 Posts: 3,971
    And yet, the Lexus branded GS (the most closely related to the Genesis), despite the Lexus brand reputation, etc. over the past couple of years has been a sales failure (selling about 500-600 units a month).

    a convenient comparison for you perhaps, but the Gen is not 'closley related' to the GS, the Gen being larger slotted in between that and the LS. Furthermore the GS is Lexus' attempt at a 5 series competitor something that Lexus has come up short on pretty much since the model's inception. A step child of sorts and a faulty comparison IMO. RWD BS not withstanding, the Gen Sedans closest Lexus competitor is the ES, if for no other reason other than price. .
    And anything that is really competing in the upscale sedan category will likely outsell the higher priced luxury sedans, only makes sense.
    Never have denied that the Gen is not a decently luxurious sedan, only that a true luxury sedan must also be luxury branded (and sold) else we all could be driving 'luxury' Grand Marquises and spending even less money than what Hyundai is hgetting for the Gen.
  • captain2captain2 Posts: 3,971
    thus paving the way for a smoother introduction of its luxury brand (why is there a need to have to keep repeating this?)
    which is all, I have ever said, for HYUNDAI to 'find room' in the luxury market, they must establish a luxury brand (why is there a need to keep repeating this?) :P
  • fintailfintail Posts: 32,923
    HILARIOUS article...I know AOL is hard up for dough, but come on :shades:
  • fintailfintail Posts: 32,923
    I don't see anything aggressive about it - it is weirdo and rather garish KDM design, an Azera greenhouse, tall proportions, and you know the "snore" S also has a horizontally slatted grille. I don't look at an Equus and think performance and handling, or anything aggressive.

    The Phaeton didn't flatly fail in every market, you know. It's still in production, still being sold.
  • fintailfintail Posts: 32,923
    edited May 2010
    The LS as usually equipped when new cost around 40K 20 years ago - E-class money. There was no C-class then, and the 190E cost around 30K. Funny how thnigs change and at the same time remain the same - a new base C is still barely over 30K, a base E is in the upper 40s. We have Lexus to thank for that, and Hyundai will probably add to it as well.

    Lexus is the Japanese Buick, replacing Buick for many Americans. I think that market will be where the Equus gets any sales...I don't see any en masse defection from the big Germans.
  • captain2captain2 Posts: 3,971
    yep, as this author even seems to recognize, the sophistication and integration that makes cars like the 535 (and others that truly compete with it ) what they are- does cost some extra $.
  • smarty666smarty666 Posts: 1,503
    I mean this isn't the only reason but I've read many reviews over the years and I think the reason why the GS has not done well for Lexus is that is does not follow or go along with the driving dyanmics that the rest of the Lexus line-up is known for. Many people have commented that it has a harsh/rough ride, is very uncomfortable in the seats, and lacks the refinement the IS, ES, and LS have.

    Since Lexus is known for mushy/soft ride qualities, uber comfort seats/features, etc and refinement, if the GS lacks those Lexus characteristics, it makes sense then that it would not sell well compared to the other Lexus models. Again, I'm not saying these are the only reasons, as I'm sure there are others that just aren't coming to mind right now but it explains a lot.

    It will be interesting to see what Lexus does to the GS with its next redesign!
Sign In or Register to comment.