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Toyota is on the Offensive. Will it work?



  • mcdawggmcdawgg Posts: 1,667
    Rav4s are now built in Canada.
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaPosts: 12,687
    that this thread got resurrected, as Toyota's efforts have plainly been fruitless since the last post two years ago. They were left with massive overstocks of Tundra, so that the '08s have rebates equal to 1/3 of their MSRP or more, and the only volume automakers down more in sales than Toyota were the domestics. Meanwhile, Honda continues its steady and seemingly unstoppable gain in market share, and VW and Hyundai are picking up market share left and right!

    2013 Civic SI, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (stick)

  • lemkolemko Posts: 15,120
    I will still buy Cadillacs and Buicks as long as they still make them and make them in the United States.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    raise the question of whether mighty Toyota is beatable

    At the volume they sell of course they are.

    When you get big you're just not as nimble as when you were small.

    Say you're producing Camrys at a rate of, just tossing out a number, 100 per day. You find a defect, and it takes 5 days to find a fix. You have 500 cars you have to recall.

    I'm just using round number, bear with me.

    If Porsche produces just 5 cars a day, they'll fix the problem with only 25 cars to recall.

    There's just no way Toyota could maintain the quality level as they grew.

    The question is, now that the market has forced them back down, can they get that higher quality level back?
  • mcdawggmcdawgg Posts: 1,667
    Toyota said about a year ago that they were not happy with their quality. You can bet that the company that wrote the book on quality is working to improve it. That being said, it is still one of the best, depending on the data you look at.
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Posts: 4,173
    If they bring more design to the future like they have with the hot selling Venza and Lexus IS models, then their offensive looks promising. Whether or not they gain respect with the "drivers" crowd out there is up in the air though. An IS350 Coupe with a stick would make for a great start :shades:
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    I wonder, though, if the Venza is really bringing in any new buyers, or is it just cannibalizing the Highander, RAV4, and maybe even the Lexus RX.
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaPosts: 12,687
    Exactly. And IS the Venza, in fact, a hot-selling model? Or the IS? Now they will start to sell a $40-50K IS250/350 convertible. Not sure how many buyers that will find.

    But it seems that Highlander sales are down with the advent of the Venza, something I thought likely before the Venza was introduced.

    2013 Civic SI, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (stick)

  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    It would be interesting to know what Venza owners traded in, and what they cross-shopped as well.
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    Venza on pace to sell 8,800 this year.

    Not a hot seller.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Yeah, not so hot after all.

    I believe the hot crossovers sold around 120-150k per year or so. Maybe 70% of that pace in today's market.

    In that regard the Venza is all but invisible.
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Posts: 4,173
    8800? That's it? Wow, from the numbers I see here in MA, you'd think it was doing better than that. For every new HL, i see a new Venza. Must be different elsewhere...
  • andre1969andre1969 Posts: 21,852
    I sort of look at it as a jacked-up Camry station wagon. But, isn't that essentially what the Highlander is? And the RAV-4 really isn't a tiny little cute-ute anymore, so it just seems to me all these models are beginning to gravitate to a mean.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    In person they're not nearly as tall or as high up as a RAV4 or Highlander.

    It's basically a big Camry wagon, with a luxurious twist. The interior is much nicer than the RAV4, IMO.

    That's why I think it could steal a few RX sales.
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    Woops !!!

    That was numbers from TOYOTA CANADA on the 8,800 a year.


    4,745 in May, with the 2009 total at 15,942 so far

    My bad..........:)
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587

    And we all fell for it hook, line, and sinker.

    Still, 32k per year, at this rate, is still very much an also ran.

    Heck, the old Forester sold at about 48k/year and it was considered an also ran. The new one is doing a lot better, as is the RAV4. And the funny thing is those aren't even the crossover leaders - the CR-V is.
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Posts: 4,173
    But isn't the Venza in short supply at the moment? Also, 4 cylinders are just hitting the lots as I recall. They may be in really short supply in areas like the midwest. I'm sure it's just a niche model for Toyota, but still they seem to be pretty popular around here.

    I also stand by my original point. I think the Venza is a breakout model for Toyota, style-wise. It's got some prescence to it and the interior is pretty classy IMO, not as cost cut feeling as cars like the Camry. Yeah, I guess it is sorta Ford Edge ripoff or maybe Murano ripoff, but there are some pretty neat curves on it that make it look less vanilla than other Toyota cars.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    I've seen more than a few also, but there is a Toyota dealer about 2 miles from my home.

    Toyota usually plays it safe so I agree, the Venza does push the envelope for them a bit.

    I have a Sienna and I've looked at the Venza and RAV4. The RAV4's interior feels cheaper than my Sienna, but the Venza seems nicer. Of course it costs a bunch more, way more than a Sienna with the same equipment.
  • lemkolemko Posts: 15,120
    If Toyota really wanted to push the envelope, they'd bring back the Supra.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Well, they're working on an affordable sport car based on a Subaru platform, one that will have AWD and a target price starting under $20k.

    More like a modern, RWD Celica, than a Supra, but I'm looking forward to it.

    Hopefully the designers that did the Venza will work on that project. Rumors say a convertible may come, too, though that was before the crisis hit. We'll see.

    Subaru will hopefully offer an AWD version.
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