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2008 the year of the factory performance sedans

tcrawley1tcrawley1 Posts: 18
edited March 7 in BMW
I know like many people out there I can't wait for next year's showdown between the Audi RS anything,BMW M3 sedan,Cadillac CTS-V, Mercedes Benz AMG lineup and also the Mitsubishi Evolution X. If anyone has some others they would like to add feel free to. I myself am leaning toward the CTS-V because if they can give the same bargain as a ZO6 in a sedan I'm sold, plus it has a manual trans which I prefer.
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Comments

  • s550iwishs550iwish Posts: 28
    I cant wait for the 2008 Subaru Impreza WRX!!

    When does it come out??
  • tcrawley1tcrawley1 Posts: 18
    I believe early next year around the same time as the Evo X. You will get your first look later this year probably at the Tokyo Auto Show
  • s550iwishs550iwish Posts: 28
    Thank You i was really confused!!
  • stevecebustevecebu Posts: 493
    I cant wait for the 2008 Subaru Impreza WRX!!

    When does it come out??


    The WRX should be out in dealers by November or earlier. The WRX STI will be out sometime later. The WRX is a far cry from the STI. The EVO is a long ways off yet from what I'm reading. Prices are going to be high on the EVO close to about $40K is rumored. That's BMW 335i territory.
  • tcrawley1tcrawley1 Posts: 18
    Next spring isn't that far away, were already in the seventh month of this year. The Evo you are speaking of if priced closed to $40k will be a fully loaded leather sun/sound and nav/bluetooth/hdd wtih the Mitsubishi paddle shift transmission and host of other cool things most likely. The 335i you speak of is base with a manual transmission, not saying the the 335i base is not nicely equipped but a fully loaded Evo would be have so much more for the same price.
  • s550iwishs550iwish Posts: 28
    I was thinking the same thing how could it be 40k. The 2006 is like 27k or somethin not 40k.
  • stevecebustevecebu Posts: 493
    I was thinking the same thing how could it be 40k. The 2006 is like 27k or something not 40k.

    I looked up the 2006 EVO IX on the Mitsu website and if you get the high end model it'll run you 36 large!
    Yes you can get other versions for much cheaper. The new one no one knows but to get all the fancy stuff on it is going to cost. I still think a BMW is a better bet. The EVO X will have a lot going for it but resale? won't be good because everyone will think you beat the snot out of it. Don't believe me? Go into a forum where they talk about used EVO' and STi's. Number one concern is how do I know it wasn't thrashed.
    BMW's don't have that rep, except for the M models.
    ut to the other guy, yeah a BMW at $41K will not be loaded but it will have 300HP. The EVO will have less.
    I find it tough to justify spending big $$$ on a car when i end up wanting a new one in about 3 years.
    Rumors were floating around a bout a future WRX diesel! But I find that tough to believe. subaru pulled the LSD out of the 2008 WRX and put in smaller brakes as well. But uglied up the body and cut out the cargo space and gave it a better interior supposedly.
    The new EVO is a great looking car. I might consider the Ralliart version if one comes out by the time I need to actually buy a car.
    Also expect dealers to way overcharge on the EVO's when they come out. $50K at the dealership would not surprise me. BMW's you can get a discount and the new BMW 135i just might be as amazing as it sounds. No AWD tho.
    Cheapest EVO you could buy in 2006 was $29,149. That's MSRP. Here is the link so you can check for yourself.
    http://www.mitsubishicars.com/MMNA/jsp/index.do
  • tcrawley1tcrawley1 Posts: 18
    I agree if your looking for a vehicle to tell non auto enthusiast and enthusiast you have pick the BMW all day. I use to sell Evos and every week someone was coming in driving all types of vehicles from 911 turbos to R32s trying to trade or just buy one and the ones who were able to buy bought. The only complaint that everybody had was the econocar interior, actually I didn't even like it but for that amount of performance I accepted it. Mitsubishi has fixed the interior and added AYC this Evo will set a new benchmark for sportcompacts. The 135i has gained my interest, because it has that wonderful I-6TT in it that vishnuperformance can unlock from 360-380hp from through a stage1 upgrade. I know got off my point for a moment, have you driven either the BMW or the Evo or are you going by stats and pictures? I would like to know so we can continue this discussion.
  • tcrawley1tcrawley1 Posts: 18
    My answer to the resale question is with any hi performance vehicle people are scared of who drove it last. The BMW will hold its value for the first 8yrs after that I think the Evo being an icon will win in the long run just look@ 3000GT VR4s,Supras, and 3rd gen Rx7s pricing. To answer the want question, its part of being car crazy and always wanting something faster or more luxurious then you have the outside influences ie significant others and career. I miss my Evo everyday but due to job change and not having a 4 car garage it had to go, so it usually not the cars fault we are so short committment based. Why do you think BMW has leasing on the 335i?
  • eldainoeldaino Posts: 1,618
    from 911 turbos to R32s trying to trade or just buy one and the ones who were able to buy bought

    blashpemy! who on earth would do such a thing. (must have been hard going from the luxo r32 to the econo evo.) :P

    i'd still take a newer r32 over it, i like the image and interior subtle exterior styling better. plus, even in its limited run, its still going to be cheaper with a nicer interior, even though mitsu has raised its standards a little bit.

    i know its not the same performance, but to me its better balanced.
  • tcrawley1tcrawley1 Posts: 18
    I'm sorry I hit a nerve, some people buy vehicles for performance not looks or comfort. I am one of those people, but when I can get a high performance vehicle with;5yr60k bumper to bumper warranty,10yr100k powertrain, and roadside assistance for under $36k that even throws some practicality in there where do you go wrong. If your European biased you won't get not bringing your car in for repairs. I just speaking from experience, besides the new R32 cost like mid $30ks I read.
  • stevecebustevecebu Posts: 493
    I agree if your looking for a vehicle to tell non auto enthusiast and enthusiast you have pick the BMW all day. I use to sell Evos and every week someone was coming in driving all types of vehicles from 911 turbos to R32s trying to trade or just buy one and the ones who were able to buy bought. The only complaint that everybody had was the econocar interior, actually I didn't even like it but for that amount of performance I accepted it. Mitsubishi has fixed the interior and added AYC this Evo will set a new benchmark for sport compacts. The 135i has gained my interest, because it has that wonderful I-6TT in it that vishnuperformance can unlock from 360-380hp from through a stage1 upgrade. I know got off my point for a moment, have you driven either the BMW or the Evo or are you going by stats and pictures? I would like to know so we can continue this discussion.

    When the EVO came out no test drives allowed and I drove the STI but opted for the WRX instead. I had that for a while and then moved out of the US and have been gone since 2003. Now I have driven the BMW 1 series The 120i Sport it's the best they have here and it's the 4 door hatch. The 130i isn't sold here and is grey market. I drove an older EVO IV but it was pretty used and thrashy also a grey market. The Mitsu dealerships where I use to live had huge ADM on the EVO's with NO test drives allowed buy it then drive it. I never buy a car I can't drive and the STi was pretty good but the WRX seemed pretty good to me as was a lot less. I owned a Porsche 968 and nothing was as smooth as that 160 mph no problem and very stable. But anyway you must have been a great car salesman to afford an EVO! Have you driven a 1 series BMW yet?
    If you don't live in the US possibly but only BMW guys and Magazines have driven the US model.
    Mitsu probably lost a sale but from my experience with Mitsu sales and dealerships they tend to not care about their customers. I know as I've owned Mitsubishi's before as have friends.
    So are you going off stats and pics of the BMW or have you actually driven one?
  • stevecebustevecebu Posts: 493
    My answer to the resale question is with any hi performance vehicle people are scared of who drove it last. The BMW will hold its value for the first 8yrs after that I think the Evo being an icon will win in the long run just look 3000GT VR4s,Supras, and 3rd gen Rx7s pricing. To answer the want question, its part of being car crazy and always wanting something faster or more luxurious then you have the outside influences ie significant others and career. I miss my Evo everyday but due to job change and not having a 4 car garage it had to go, so it usually not the cars fault we are so short commitment based. Why do you think BMW has leasing on the 335i?

    Well I think you just made my point. The EVO is not an icon because it's updated all the time. Sure it's a great car with heritage and an old one is pretty fun to drive. here are a few around here and I'm friends with grey market dealers so I can get an EVO IV, V, VI, VII or possibly an VIII. But they go way up in price as they get newer. Civic Type R's are available as well.
    Anything goes here no matter what you want to drive as long as you can get it registered.
    Anyway The US has a different outlook. But when anyone goes to buy a car they want it like new even when it's old and used and with stuff like tea EVO as well as many other cars you KNOW they were thrashed. Most people don't hold onto a car for 8 years any more. The electronics get all wonky and things not mechanical start going awry and electrical gremlins and then you trade it. BMW and 8 years you won't get much for it. Maybe the EVO will have some value but it's not going to be a lot either.
    The EVO has gotten more and more expensive and yes better. But if it's $40K people will also consider a BMW and for good reason.
    BMW people tend to lease all the time because they don't want to own an older car but want to drive a new car every 2-3 years. For me that's wasting money. But I do understand why people do it.
    I sold my WRX when I left the US but shipping it here would have been very expensive then customs usually charges at minimum 100% of what they think the vehicle is worth. So Shipping about $5K and then $25K for a customs fee! Nah not worth it. The EVO concept was great the street pics are a bit less inspiring but it looks 10 times better than the WRX/STI!
    Now let's see if the dealers gouge on prices and don't allow test drives again.
  • stevecebustevecebu Posts: 493
    I'm sorry I hit a nerve, some people buy vehicles for performance not looks or comfort. I am one of those people, but when I can get a high performance vehicle with;5yr60k bumper to bumper warranty,10yr100k powertrain, and roadside assistance for under $36k that even throws some practicality in there where do you go wrong. If your European biased you won't get not bringing your car in for repairs. I just speaking from experience, besides the new R32 cost like mid $30ks I read.

    Seriously is Mitsu still going out of their way to void warranties on their cars if they even think you auto-x'd the car? I heard they would go to events and take pics of the cars and their license plates and then totally void the warranty!
    I'm sure you will defend that but also the dealers would claim you raced it even if you hadn't and not fix it. My friend had that happen. It wasn't an EVO tho.
    So the warranty is only as good as the dealer and the dealers try to get out of that and it doesn't take much. Basically your word against theirs.
    I know it ticked a lot of people off when they did tat and of course Mitsu is so in the Red now they have forgotten what black looks like. Part of that is the way the dealers treat their customers. I have no way of knowing if that's changed. Dealers always protect their own.
  • tcrawley1tcrawley1 Posts: 18
    I'm sorry you lived where the dealer didn't have a Evo specialist and didn't allow test drives. I haven't driven the 1series cause its not out here yet, but I have driven the 335i which is a like a tool for driving. My Evo was my most stable car at 150 plus. I know your enjoying your vehicles if your going 160 in them. Im sorry again for your dealership's ignorance, go find one that will let you drive and see what all the hype is about.
  • tcrawley1tcrawley1 Posts: 18
    I live by three different Mitsu dealers and only one of them is being stupid about warranty. I think a lot of enthusiasts take warranties for granted I always check with the service dept of a dealership that I'm considering a purchase at to findout what I can and cannot do to my car and you should too.This was a problem that a few caused both drivers(6k clutch drops) and dealerships(sneaky service managers) that leave a mark on a great car. I know a bunch of my friends that drive other brands and have the same trouble cause, in the covered item section no manufacture has racing as covered that I know of.
  • stevecebustevecebu Posts: 493
    I'm sorry you lived where the dealer didn't have a Evo specialist and didn't allow test drives. I haven't driven the 1series cause its not out here yet, but I have driven the 335i which is a like a tool for driving. My Evo was my most stable car at 150 plus. I know your enjoying your vehicles if your going 160 in them. I'm sorry again for your dealership's ignorance, go find one that will let you drive and see what all the hype is about.

    Well That was every Mitsu dealer within driving distance of 2 hours and for me the price gouging on top of no test drives sucked! Oh and Honda did the same with the S2000, so they lost a sale also. Sure the Miata wasn't as fast but it was a whole lot less than a maxxed out S200 with every possible dealer addition that would fit in/on the car and a $10,000 ADM sticker. The Miata was great fun tho and no hassle after I bought it.
    The Porsche was just too expensive to maintain over time. Great car tho. It was a dream to drive!
    I drove a BMW when I was in the US like 5 years ago maybe a 328? Anyway it was great but I went with Subaru anyway.
    Sold that before I moved out of the US.
    The BMW 1 series hatch is a great car! The US bound coupe is rated at 3400 lbs you know! There was a link on the BMW group with all the specs from the UK brochure. They posted a link so that should help.
    The 335i is really nice but I have a hard time justifying the $40K the car will cost over a BMW and being married and thinking about buying a house in the US etc...
    So who knows.
    But whenever I see a price gouging ADM sticker I just walk out of the dealership and won't buy from them.
    Maybe a test drive would convince me but I won't be back in the US until 2008 either Jan or March hard to say.
    But the EVO won't be out when I need a car. which I will need within a week of getting back.
  • stevecebustevecebu Posts: 493
    I live by three different Mitsu dealers and only one of them is being stupid about warranty. I think a lot of enthusiasts take warranties for granted I always check with the service dept of a dealership that I'm considering a purchase at to find out what I can and cannot do to my car and you should too. This was a problem that a few caused both drivers(6k clutch drops) and dealerships(sneaky service managers) that leave a mark on a great car. I know a bunch of my friends that drive other brands and have the same trouble cause, in the covered item section no manufacture has racing as covered that I know of.

    Well the dealerships do other things as well but yeah if you do 6k clutch drops you can do real damage but i didn't see that too much. i'd drop the clutch in my Miata at almost 5K tho and no problems but an EVO is different than a RWD car.
    Too much BS by the dealer and they lose a customer like VW did me. Ford from my experience is the worst followed by VW then Mitsubishi. Others are hit and miss.
    The above 3 I never had a good experience.
    So no matter how great the car you need a good dealership. Mitsu has yet to prove they can be good but it's been quite a few years, so maybe things have changed but Mitsu itself has to change as well. They need to revamp their customer service and literally boot out dealers who suck!
  • tcrawley1tcrawley1 Posts: 18
    I hope that they won't overcharge too much also . I didn't know your point was to say the Evo isn't an icon. Well if its not an icon why does it come up in M3 discussions and everyone elses.
  • stevecebustevecebu Posts: 493
    I hope that they won't overcharge too much also . I didn't know your point was to say the Evo isn't an icon. Well if its not an icon why does it come up in M3 discussions and everyone elses.

    The EVO is a car that by name is an icon but the car itself is always changing hence the name EVO. The EVO off 8 years ago is not the same EVO as today.
    It's practically a household name and it's got brand recognition. I just don't put it up with other marque's.
    Yes great car but when it fetches 10 times it's price for a mint condition used one at auction then ok it's an icon.
    I guess it depends on how you define the word. For me I can see what you mean and by that measure I guess the Corvette would be an Icon. But for me only certain Corvettes would be true icons. 1953 etc...
    I'm not dissing the EVO at all.
  • tcrawley1tcrawley1 Posts: 18
    They have shutdown 3 bad dealerships around me so that's a start. I agree on the other two also. If you come in March the Evo should be out by then.
  • tcrawley1tcrawley1 Posts: 18
    Okay I understand what your saying and I appologize for putting the Evo in the status of icon, the vehicles you speak of I call classics or legends not icons, so it was just a misunderstanding.
  • stevecebustevecebu Posts: 493
    They have shutdown 3 bad dealerships around me so that's a start. I agree on the other two also. If you come in March the EVO should be out by then.

    Well hopefully the trend will continue so that decent and good dealerships will do better and bad ones will be out of business.
    Hopefully by March I've heard they aren't near production yet.
  • tcrawley1tcrawley1 Posts: 18
    Well the Tokyo Autoshow should have a near production model by Nov. I can't wait to see if Subaru will get smart and add a sedan STi too.
  • tcrawley1tcrawley1 Posts: 18
    I feel the engine should be a variation on the LS7 with alittle more torque, after all this car isn't as light as the corvette. The most important thing they have to do right is make every bulletproof. I live in Atlanta,Ga with two dragstrips, two roadcourses and the mountains within two hrs of me I need my car to holdup. The first gen Cts-V's wheel hop, electronic gremlins(see youtube cts-v video guy has cts-v breakdown while cruising) and diff problems(the whine) ultimately kept me from purchasing a 1st gen. I even could have lived with the cheap interior, but not that many problems. I will wait till 2009 before I buy anything from my list of vehicle considerations.
  • eldainoeldaino Posts: 1,618
    actually, even it's most expensive guise, it barely tops out at 32k, which is not mid 30's.

    for that much money, the r32 does give great performance, and it handles amazingly well, and theres no god awful turbo lag.

    for that much money, i WANT a nice interior, not some low rent budget car scenery. the new lancer BARELY makes it do-able.

    different strokes for different folks.

    (but i do agree that you seem like a guy who buys on solely performance, as the evo wont be winning any beauty contests soon! :P )

    im actually not buyist towards euro cars either... a nice civic type r would do me good!
  • tcrawley1tcrawley1 Posts: 18
    Well since you put it that way, I suggest you go by an Acura TSX which has a better interior than them both and with the money leftover get some Comptech parts and make it really perform. I do buy based on performance, hence the name of the forum is performance sedans not hatches or coupes which have been discussed the most so far. If you don't like turbo lag don't buy a turbocharged car period, but if you like all types of engine configurations and performance your going to have to start liking them soon or later.
  • tcrawley1tcrawley1 Posts: 18
    Oh by the way the 2008 with DVD nav/ipod is $35K, so that is mid $30k plus tax and fees your in the high $30k otd. Just letting you know so you won't be shocked and base is like $32,990.
  • eldainoeldaino Posts: 1,618
    i do like turbocharged cars...and the 2.0t in the vw gti has hardly any hints of turbo lag at all. they just know how to do it. thats direct injection for ya. I do like all types of cars...but when comparing an n/a vehicle to a turboed one, the advantages are pretty clear.

    the acura tsx does have a nice interior...but even with comptec parts...you still wont be at the r32's performance levels...and you are still missing awd. not to mention the lack of exclusivitiy and extra money FOR those aftermarket mods.

    the interior is about on par...but not 'better' in the least. and lets not even get started about the seats.

    with regards to adding the comptec parts...i wont really have any money left over will i? seeing as how the tsx is well into the 30k range...and unless you were to go forced induction, there is no way you will get that much performance for so little money.
  • eldainoeldaino Posts: 1,618
    hence the name of the forum is performance sedans not hatches or coupes which have been discussed the most so far

    and yet if you look at the related cars at the top of this thread, you see the bmw m3 and the audi s4, yet most of this discussion has been based around many other vehicles and has hardly touched base (if at all) on those models.

    I'd say its pretty open game.

    If you get technical, i can talk about the gli or si sedan...because they both fit with this threads description.

    again only if you want to get techincal. ;)
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