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Brake

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Comments

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 45,232
    New pads at 17K is possible, depending on the car and driver, it could very well be. But having the rear pads wear before the front, that is very unusual, yes. Sounds like the emergency brake is sticking or rear calipers are malfunctioning.

    Obviously the dealer knows something. Have you checked for TSB (Technical Service Bulletins) on this car? Visit Edmunds Home Page for more info on TSBs.

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  • brorjacebrorjace Posts: 588
    I know it's odd, but I've found that rear brakes waer MUCH faster than fronts on cars equipped with 4-wheel-discs.

    Most of us know that front brakes do most of the braking work ... sometimes as much as 80% on a front-wheel-drive car which is why many manufacturers are content to keep using drums on their cheaper and/or lower-performance cars.

    I've had an Integra and my Dad drives a Mercury Grand Marquis (very different automobiles) and BOTH cars went through rear disc brake pads long before the fronts wore out. I'm not sure why this is the case ... other than the rear pads are often smaller.

    --- Bror Jace
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 45,232
    Hmmm....that's interesting...maybe others can jump i here and give their opinions. I'm really at a lose to comment why this would be.

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  • guitarzanguitarzan Posts: 632
    I had the same experience with the Integra. The front disks are much beefier. Also, with the expense of rear disks overall, I might guess the front brakes are of higher caliber parts. (Don't know that for sure.)

    As far as Volvo goes, I would think they'd have a great design that would even out the wear period between front and rear.

    All I know is my Celica GTS stops 20 feet short of my Integra. Due to the initial grinding, I bet they are metallic pads. Great combination. I cannot wait to see how long these last. OK, maybe I CAN wait.
  • brorjacebrorjace Posts: 588
    I just thought of something. Most of the rear discs I've seen were solid and not vented. This might allow more heat to build up and shorten pad life.

    I'm talking about the channel running between the friction surfaces ... not cross-drilling or slotting.

    --- Bror Jace
  • 5spd5spd Posts: 38
    There is a little noise coming from the left rear wheel whenever I *release* the brake pedal. It also happens whenever the parking brake is released.

    What could it be ?
  • alcanalcan Posts: 2,550
    Make? Model? Year? Disc or drum? If it's rear drum brakes the noise is probably dry contact pads on the backing plates where the shoes sit. If so, and the contact pads are substantially grooved, the backing plates will require repair or replacement.
  • jgmilbergjgmilberg Posts: 872
    If it is the contact pads, usually is on drum brakes, pull the shoes away from the backing plate and put some anti sieze compound on them. This will act as a lube and prevent the noise from returning for quite some time. I do believe there are other typs of lubes that will do the same thing, ask at your local parts store.

    P.S. Make sure that the shoes are properly adjusted while your in there. It will make a dramatic change in the way the pedal feels, and will take a lot of the pedal travel out as well.

    Good Luck
  • dennistntdennistnt Posts: 1
    My daughter has trashed her front rotors on her front wheel drive eclipse. What is the trick to removing the axle nut? I've tried everything but an air wrench.
  • alcanalcan Posts: 2,550
    The torque spec for the axle nut is 188 ft/lbs. An impact gun or a long pipe on a breaker bar are your 2 options. What year Eclipse is it? Most Mitsubishi rotors slip off or have 2 small screws holding them on to the hub from the outside. Mirage and Precis require removal of the rotor/hub assembly (needs a puller to push the axle out of the hub), and a press with tool MB991001 or equivalent to separate the rotor from the hub.
  • leomortleomort Posts: 451
    what indications/warning signs of wear on these two items. Can you tell by how they sound whether the pads or rotor need replaced?

    Leo
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 45,232
    No, unless you mean by "sound" the warning device they put in pads. But once totally worn pads touch the rotors metal to metal, it's all over. If you hear grinding, it's too late.

    The rotors themselves should be mirror smooth, but in fact a few small grooves is not a reason to replace or even resurface them. Many large grooves are not a good sign. Also, the rotor must be flat, so any "run-out" has to be measured with a special gauge. If the rotor is smooth, that doesn't mean it's okay, it could be warped. Last of all, severly burned rotors need to be inspected carefully for warpage and cracks.

    As for turning the rotors, you don't have to do this for every little hairline scratch you see in the surface. Some shops oversell on this point.

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  • guitarzanguitarzan Posts: 632
    Thieves! The dealers especially want to grind down your brake parts, including pads, at every opportunity. What a great way to sell replacement parts more frequently.

    I am not a mechanic, and thus don't condone this. But on my Integra, the rear disks had a great deal of grooves after 30k miles. I put on a new set of pads, and rode the brakes hard for a couple days. Took the wheels off and inspected, and the rotor was perfectly smooth. The rears are not very beefy, so they probably couldn't take a cut anyways. And replacing the pads was cake. Like I said, not condoning this as maintenance, but on the right car, at the right time, it bought my rear brakes a few miles before any parts had to be changed, and they worked perfectly.
  • leomortleomort Posts: 451
    that when you hear "grinding" noise that this is a sign of worn rotors and they need to be replaced. I noticed that when I hit my brakes hard that I hear some grinding but not during normal braking.

    I currently have 160,000 miles on my car. I had rotors put on at 137,500 miles and pads at 152,736 miles. I just had the car inspect this week and mechanic said everything was fine. I'd think rotors would last at least 30,000 to 36,000 miles. My car is a stick so I downshift to slow down and use the brakes less than in an automatic.

    Leo
  • haspelbeinhaspelbein Posts: 227
    Okay, just $0.02 from somebody who does his own brakes...

    Unless you brake hard or live in a mountainous area, you really shouldn't need new rotors at 36,000 miles.

    If the brake was grinding, metal to metal, you would know ... believe me, it's an awful sound and you'd recognize it immediately. (I once had that pleasant experience riding in my brother's car.)

    If in doubt, I would really take off the wheel and have a visual inspection of the brakes. (Since your mechanic just inspected them, you're probably fine.) One can easily see the brake pad thickness, but you need a micrometer screw and a dial indicator to measure the rotor thickness and run-out (flatness).

    One more thing. Please be easy on the car during the down-shifting. The wear that you save on the brake can show up on your clutch. Brakes are usually cheaper.
  • leomortleomort Posts: 451
    Oh, I don't downshift like that. Meant that since I drive a stick that I gradually downshift when coming to light or stop sign which saves on braking.


    Had some maintenance work done and had them check the rotors and pads. MEchanic said that since they were aftermarket pads that they were metallic pads which are generally more noisy. Answer that question. Thanks for your help.

    Leo
  • guitarzanguitarzan Posts: 632
    I didn't know that aftermarket parts would change the consistency of the pads, from regular to metallic. I assumed these parts would necessarily follow the manufacturer's specs. Hmmm.

    I had thought metallic pads might be your problem Leo, but I didn't know the above. Knowing that, I think your rotors won't last as long. I don't KNOW this for fact, but metallic pads tend to wear the rotors quicker.

    You may notice a greater grinding when you first apply the brakes in the morning. The metallic flakes in the pads actually rust slightly. The first grinding is this pad cleaning itself, then the grinding tapers off somewhat.
  • leomortleomort Posts: 451
    The Toyota mechanic told me that toyota pads use brass as their metal in the pads. Brass metal is relatively soft which allows it to be quiet but it will also wear faster. Apparently there are many different types of metals you can use/have in brake pads.

    I too would think that my current metallic pads, while they last longer, will also wear my rotors quicker.

    Leo
  • jlukasjlukas Posts: 1
    I've replaced the brakes all the way around on my 1989 Buick. Problem is I have discovered a hole in the rear brake line. I am unable to break the line free because of the rust. I've tried rust penetrant, light taping, even heat to break these free. Any other suggestions before I take it to a shop and pay a bopping 75 bills. help
  • alcanalcan Posts: 2,550
    We cut the line at the ends and use a socket on the flare nuts. The replacement line MUST be double inverted or ISO flared on the ends. The wheel cylinder bleeder screw and the opposite front caliper bleeder screw must be loosened, if front wheel drive. If rear wheel drive, both rear bleeders will have to be freed up. By the time you buy the flaring kit, tubing cutter, and steel line, then snap off a bleeder screw and have to replace the wheel cylinder it'll probably be cheaper and a lot less aggravation to let a shop do it.

    Btw, if attempting yourself don't be surprised if you can't get a brake pedal after trying to bleed the system. The first time the pedal's depressed it'll bottom out the master cylinder pistons in their bores, into the pitted and corroded areas where the pistons haven't previously travelled. Usually tears one or both of the piston rubber primary cups, requiring master cylinder replacement. More of a problem with composite aluminum master cylinders.
  • adc100adc100 Posts: 1,521
    Pulled the drum to check/clean brakes and found cyl leaking. Bought cylinder and removed parts. The cylinder can not be removed without major wheel disassembly!!!!! This car has given me nothing but fits. I suppose I could use a dremmel and remove some metal. The spring anchor posts have pins, that would allow clearance if removed, but that's ugly. Cyl really needs to be replaced-internal wear. What's the trick??????????????????????
  • alcanalcan Posts: 2,550
    They're pretty snug, huh? With the bleeder screw removed, and the flare nut too if the end of the line broke off, turn the axle flange so the back of a wheel stud isn't interfering. Then just play with the sucker till it comes out. It will, but barely.

    When installing, I usually grind a bit off the replacement cylinder for clearance. With it in position, jam a tie rod pickle fork between the cylinder and axle flange to hold it in place, then use a 1 1/16" (I think) 12 point socket with a 12" extension and a hammer to tap the retainer clip into place. Obviously, don't hit it hard enough to distort the axle flange.

    Btw, was thinking about you a couple of days ago when I replaced a heater hose/tube on a '92 Cavalier. Fun, huh? LOL
  • brorjacebrorjace Posts: 588
    Brass is used in brake linings as a 'scouring' agent. It makes a poor friction material as it has some 'self-lubricating' properties ... which is why it's used in door latches and locks. I think manufacturers can put brass in a lining without claiming that it's semi-metallic.

    Metallic pads (usually) don't actually EAT the rotors but they DO rough them up and necessitate turning on a lathe at pad changes and THAT takes a lot of metal out of them ... making them even more prone to warping then they previously were.

    --- Bror Jace
  • alcanalcan Posts: 2,550
    Yep, the brass is there to act as a friction modifier and to reduce rotor glazing. Same as in clutch disc facings. Actually, rotors should not be resurfaced unless one of the following conditions exists:
    - customer has a brake pedal pulsation concern
    - scoring of the braking surfaces exceeds .060"
    - corrosion pitting is evident on the braking surfaces
    Minor scoring or uneven discoloration are normal and do not require rotor resurfacing.
  • adc100adc100 Posts: 1,521
    Just for the hell of though I'm going to polish out the cyl a little better and give the rebuild kit a try. Who knows- I may get lucky. My patience is maxed out for now.

    Heater hose -he-he-he. At least it's not me.

    Thanks,
    and have a good holiday, alcan.- Oh wait you are in Canada!!!!

    Al
  • alcanalcan Posts: 2,550
    They can be frustrating and they're a tight squeeze, but they will come out. Sorta like some starters that you swear the car was built around. No way on Earth it'll come outta there until you happen to jiggle it just the with way, then WHAM!!, right in the forehead. AARGGH, YOU (many expletives deleted, this is a family channel)!!!! LOL

    Happy holiday, ours was last weekend. :-)
  • randyt2randyt2 Posts: 81
    Is there an easy way to check whether a car has rear disc or drum brakes without removing the tires? I admit that I am mechanically challenged. I tried looking at Fords website for the car but I couldn't find any specific information on the brakes.
  • guitarzanguitarzan Posts: 632
    1) The cost of the car can be an indicator

    2) If alloy wheels are used you can plainly see the type of brakes from the outside

    3) View the wheels from underneath the car.

    Got a digital camera? Put pics on your website and give us a link to look! :)
  • deebob77deebob77 Posts: 4
    to adc100

    Have a corsica too, its a nightmare. every repair is always a big deal. its a needy piece of metal.
  • adc100adc100 Posts: 1,521
    "needy piece of metal"...I like that. They are a decent car though-and served us well. I have a '92 an '94, both program cars. They are still in the extended family.
This discussion has been closed.