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Toyota RAV4 Manual Transmission for 2008

tkneeltkneel Posts: 2
edited July 8 in Toyota
Does anyone know whether there will be a manual transmission option in 2008? I have been driving the stick since 1990 and don't want to go backwards.

Comments

  • wwestwwest Posts: 10,706
    Manual transmissions for FWD or front torque AWD vehicles are being discontinued across the industry. Apparently the majority of modern day drivers are unaware of the hazards of downshifting for engine braking (intentionally or otherwise) and the manufacturers don't want the liability nor the adverse publicity arising therefrom.

    Even ignoring the issue of driver knowhow engine compression braking can inadvertently interfere with the proper, adequate, operation of the anti-lock braking system at extremely critical times.

    The new Suzuki SX4 can be purchased with a manual transmission but I have yet to find one on a dealer lot to test drive. I have heard that the SX4 will automatically (DBW)up-rev the engine to match current roadspeed to prevent any significant level of engine compression braking on the front wheels anytime a downshift is made.

    There are some posts indicating that this is also Toyota's new, latest TSB method (up-revving the engine) to solve this safety problem in their FWD vehicle lines with automatic transaxles and DBW.

    Probably a better solution/fix than delaying the onset of engine torque for acceleration by 1-2 seconds as some FWD models currently do.
  • Hey gents,

    Do you believe Toyota will bring the manual transmission in the Rav4 in 2008? I have been driving manual transmission cars for nearly 20 years. I would have already purchased a new one, but automatic's are the only one's on the market.

    Have a good day
    K-
    Plano, TX
  • wwestwwest Posts: 10,706
    For an untrained inexperienced driver a FWD vehicle with a manual transaxle can be downright dangerous. So I suspect we will not see a return of the stick shift Rav4.

    Damn.
  • So Toyota lets incompetent drivers dictate the types of cars they make? Why not in that case just limit the speed of each vehicle to 50 mph? that makes no sense
  • wwestwwest Posts: 10,706
    No, if they did that then no FWD vehicles would be in the line up. IMNSHO (In My Not So Humble Opinion) FWD ownership is an indicator of driver incompetence.
  • tkneeltkneel Posts: 2
    When do the 2008 models come out so we know for sure?

    Does anyone have any suggestions for an alternate to the RAV4. Although I like the RAV, if there were a comparable manual transmission product by Nissan or someone else I would consider that.
  • asaasa Posts: 359
    Although I like the RAV, if there were a comparable manual transmission product by Nissan or someone else I would consider that.

    Hyundai Santa Fe, Hyundai Tucson, Jeep Liberty, Mazda Tribute, Ford Escape, Kia Sportage, Subaru Forester, Suzuki Grand Vitara, Suzuki Forenza Wagon, Suzuki SX-4 Sport, Honda Element, Mazda 5 and Toyota Matrix thankfully still offer manual trannies. I share your frustration. We've had poor luck with our Forester and are looking for something new, but most of the above models are too big or too small for us or the model with the manual tanny is stripped of most creature comforts or basic features like cruise control.
  • I've driven nothing but Toyotas--with manual transmissions--since buying my first new Toyota, a truck, back in January of 1985. I'm now on my 3rd RAV4, which I bought new in 2001 and absolutely love. Although it only has 45,000 miles on it, I've been mulling over the idea of buying a new one. After looking around a little online, including in this forum, I see that they're no longer offering the RAV4 with a manual transmission. I'm stunned at this decision, and because of it I'm going to have to find something other than a RAV4 and, perhaps, other than a Toyota when I'm ready to buy. I'm extremely loyal to Toyota but if they think I'm too stupid to know how to safely drive a 4WD with a stick shift...buh-bye Toyota! :cry:

    I've read various explanations of the 'logic' behind this decision, and, frankly, I think they stink. Does anyone know if this change only applies to the USA, or is it worldwide? I'm wondering because I know that in some other countries, the ONLY vehicles available for rental are stick shifts, so I'm assuming sticks are also the overwhelming choice of owned cars as well. (If I'm wrong, please feel free to correct me! My daughter travels extensively and it's been her experience in Europe, Costa Rica, and other places that when renting a car or SUV, they're always stick shifts.) If it only applies to the USA...well, that wouldn't make much sense, would it?
  • wwestwwest Posts: 10,706
    IMMHO here in the US the number of drivers who have experience and understanding of the use of manual transmissions is declining rapidly. Couple that with the potential hazards that arise from improper use of a manual transmission, specifically "sportscar-like" downshifting a FWD or F/AWD, and it is easy to see why very few vehicles with manual transmissions are being build.
  • asaasa Posts: 359
    You're correct about the availability of manual trannies outside North America. Like your daughter, my cousins in England report that manual tranny vehicles are the norm in Europe.

    Honda quit offering a manual in its new CR-V, just like Toyota did with its new RAV-4. We crossed both models off our buy list. What breaks my heart is that when I visit Honda's British website, a 6-Speed stick is offered with the new CR-V. Sigh.

    I was once a big Toyota fan too, having put 250,000 Miles on my '86 4x2 Pickup. When I went to buy a new non-full-size truck in a crew cab configuration with a stick, the only offerering was Nissan's Frontier which I bought in '06 and love. (Toyota requires the Tacoma buyer to buy a 4x4 to get a Crew Cab stick; I don't need a 4x4.)

    I guess the death of manual trannies is borne of the average US driver's desire to be distracted while driving. The shifting we find so enjoyable is an unwelcome irritation to most others.
  • dieuwerdieuwer Posts: 8
    It seems you can actually special-order a RAV4 with manual transmission. At least that's what my colleagues told me. Should be even cheaper than the automatic one.\
    Not sure if you need to "bully" the dealer for that.
  • blueiedgodblueiedgod Posts: 2,797
    Jus think how Toyota could have avoided all this unintended accelration issue if they only offered vehicles with manuals. Manual driver would instantly clutch if the engine start surging, or throw it in neutral.

    People who drive automatics have no clue what they are doing or what to do. they just know D is for Drive and just like drone they keep on chugging.

    Automaitcs also allow bad driver to be on the road. Jus think how better our roads would be without the people who should not be on the road in the first place.
  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 40,861
    edited March 2010
    My wife's broken left leg still hasn't completely healed after one full year. How do you expect her to get around if she can't clutch?

    She test drove several MT cars before the ski crash btw, and still hopes to get into one. May not happen now though.

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  • johnc19johnc19 Posts: 15
    I recently bought a 2010 RAV4 (automatic of course) and noted that a manual transmission was not available. I assumed this was because there was not enough demand for the manual, but some earlier posts here suggest this is due to safety and liability issues????

    My other car is a 2005 Matrix with manual transmission, and I much prefer the control it gives versus an automatic. (All my previous cars have been manual as well.) Can someone enlighten me about what is so inherently unsafe about manual transmissions and FWD or AWD?
  • tidestertidester Posts: 10,110
    People who drive automatics have no clue what they are doing or what to do.

    Oh, my. I missed that report. Link, please? Thanks!

    Automaitcs also allow bad driver to be on the road.

    And we know that all manual drivers are good drivers. That's why insurance companies offer reduced premiums to owners of cars with standard transmissions. Oh, wait, they don't! :P

    tidester, host
    SUVs and Smart Shopper
  • blueiedgodblueiedgod Posts: 2,797
    My wife's broken left leg still hasn't completely healed after one full year. How do you expect her to get around if she can't clutch?

    She test drove several MT cars before the ski crash btw, and still hopes to get into one. May not happen now though.


    Had she broken the other leg, she wouldn't have been able to operate the gas or the brake in the automatic. What would she do then?
  • blueiedgodblueiedgod Posts: 2,797
    edited March 2010
    People who drive automatics have no clue what they are doing or what to do.

    Oh, my. I missed that report. Link, please? Thanks!

    It takes more concentration to operate a manual vehicle and requires the operator to be in tune with the vehicle. It also requires the operator to anticipate events and prepare (kind of what hypermilers are doing), rather than "Stomp and steer" video game approach that it takes to operate automatic.


    Automaitcs also allow bad driver to be on the road.

    And we know that all manual drivers are good drivers. That's why insurance companies offer reduced premiums to owners of cars with standard transmissions. Oh, wait, they don't!

    Insurance for manual shifted vehicles is lower than same for automatic because of their lower purchase price.

    NEXT!
  • blueiedgodblueiedgod Posts: 2,797
    I recently bought a 2010 RAV4 (automatic of course) and noted that a manual transmission was not available. I assumed this was because there was not enough demand for the manual, but some earlier posts here suggest this is due to safety and liability issues????

    My other car is a 2005 Matrix with manual transmission, and I much prefer the control it gives versus an automatic. (All my previous cars have been manual as well.) Can someone enlighten me about what is so inherently unsafe about manual transmissions and FWD or AWD?


    There is nothing unsafe about manuals. It was just someone's attempt to justify the general populations lack of interest in anything that requires thinking of muscle effort, aka LAZYNESS!

    They attempted to explain that a manual shifter may inadvertently place the shifter in the wrong gear while downshifting, i.e. 2nd instead of 4th, which will send the engine RPM's through the roof and possibly cause damage.

    While it is a possibility, and there is no way to DUMB-proff a manual like automatic (the interlocks prevent drivers from shifting from D into R or P while in motion), chances are that a person who does that will not have the capacity to coordinate 3 pedals with 2 feet and 2 hands to operate manual shifter ans steer, and thus will not be driving stick in the first place. Absence of automatic would also prevent such person from driving, which would be a good thing. However, automatic transmission allowes this same person to be on the road and pose threat to other motorists.
  • tidestertidester Posts: 10,110
    It takes more concentration to operate a manual vehicle and requires the operator to be in tune with the vehicle.

    I.e., they are more stressed and, thereby, more prone to mental fatigue and miscalculation. :P

    Insurance for manual shifted vehicles is lower than same for automatic because of their lower purchase price.

    So you agree that their alleged superior driving skills are not a factor affecting insurance premiums. We're making progress! :)

    tidester, host
    SUVs and Smart Shopper
  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 40,861
    Don't forget the hand throttle and left leg braking for folks with a bad right leg. :shades:

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This discussion has been closed.