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Honda Civic Hybrid IMA Problems

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Comments

  • bosslessbossless Posts: 179
    I don't think I am nuts. This is a car that I have maintained very well. It's in excellent shape, performs well, and has a new battery with warranty. I think most everyone would agree this little car handles well and is pleasant to drive when everything is right. When you trade cars early, your cost per year goes up as compared to keeping a car that is taken good care of for the long run.
  • grandtotalgrandtotal Posts: 1,207
    I understand (and agree with) everything you have posted, and I doubt you can teach me anything about the cost of running a car. Having said that I think you have a good offer for your car and if it were me in your position I'd take it.
  • bosslessbossless Posts: 179
    And the reason you would take it is?
  • shonda3shonda3 Posts: 42
    Cars don't go up in value. They only depreciate. Take it, takah.
  • bosslessbossless Posts: 179
    Not a good reason. The rate of depreciation goes down in time. If the price of fuel were to go up substantially, the price of hybrids would go up too.
  • jcihakjcihak Posts: 60
    The cheapest car you can own is the one you have. Unless that car is a lemon, or has design deficiencies. After my experience and reading these forums, the HCH's defects are apparent. They are even showing up the Consumer Reports ratings for the car which is significantly worse than the non-hybrid. The cost of the batteries and CVT alone outweigh any savings in gasoline over the non-hybrid. And, the non-hybrid is much, much better to drive. I regret trading mine in for the hybrid.

    More and more people realize these facts, and don't forget that the HCH is an old design that will not be able to compete with newer hybrid designs. I am glad I got rid of mine when I did. No worries and no regrets.
  • bosslessbossless Posts: 179
    I agree with you. However, if you have already sunk the money in the car and the defects have been repaired, and you have a new battery warranty, the car performs well, and you don't detest it, it has been well maintained and is in good shape, then wouldn't you be better off driving it---at least for the new warranty period? This car performed well and saved a lot of fuel until about 90K miles. The 50% cost I paid for the new battery wiped out a big portion of the fuel savings, but that is a sunk cost now. In other words, I can only recoup my investment by driving it. It should go at least another 90K miles without any major problems, even though I may not keep it that long. In fact I would sell it now if I didn't have to take a big cost hit--only because I prefer a little larger car with more utility.
  • grandtotalgrandtotal Posts: 1,207
    edited October 2010
    And the reason you would take it is?

    Because you want to sell it and because you have found someone ill-informed enough to pay more than it is worth. Yeah, I know, well maintained, new battery, and so on, but it's still only worth what it's worth.
  • PFFlyer@EdmundsPFFlyer@Edmunds Pennsylvania Furnace, PAPosts: 5,808
    edited October 2010
    If the price of fuel were to go up substantially, the price of hybrids would go up too.

    I'm not sure that's true, but I know something that is true. Cars that we drive around are NOT an "investment". They only go down in price as the miles pile up and or the years go by. Say the price of gas is higher a year from now. The car is a year older.

    (I feel like we're on Deal or No Deal) :P

    PFFlyer@Edmunds

    Moderator - Hatchbacks & Hybrid Vehicles

  • bosslessbossless Posts: 179
    Just because something goes down does not mean it is not an investment. A car is an investment in transportation. You get value from using it.

    True, value usually goes down as the car ages and miles add up. However, if gas goes up, the value could be more for a hybrid than it would otherwise be.
  • jcihakjcihak Posts: 60
    edited October 2010
    A car is much more of a consumable and not an investment. As you drive the car, you use wear it down and use it up. It is no more an investment in transportation than the tires you buy, or the gasoline you burn. The HCH is certainly no collectible and its incremental mpg improvement over the regular civic is so small it is rarely a justifiable expenditure. When you take into account its worse reliability, cost of batteries and CVT, there is no reason I can think of to buy one.

    In fact, we have seen that in consumer response to the HCH. People are much more likely to buy a Prius if the price of gas goes up. I own / have owned 7 Hondas including a HCH and would pick the Prius over the HCH in a second.
  • PFFlyer@EdmundsPFFlyer@Edmunds Pennsylvania Furnace, PAPosts: 5,808
    edited October 2010
    If and could... Once I purchase a vehicle I always consider its "value" to be "one car". That's what it's worth to me. If it maintains some of its monetary value come trade-in or time to sell it, the more, the better for sure, but I think the only thing i might be able to count on is it going down less than I expected, not going up

    PFFlyer@Edmunds

    Moderator - Hatchbacks & Hybrid Vehicles

  • bosslessbossless Posts: 179
    You are right in the sense that you don't expect to make a profit when you purchase a car and it does get used up. However, you do expect a worthwhile result in having good, and maybe economic, transportation. That is the investment part. It may or may not meet your investment expectations as you use it. A car can be a good or bad investment in transportation even though no profit is expected. And I agree with you that the Prius is a better initial hybrid investment than the Civic. However, once you have invested, there are a whole bunch of other factors depending on a particular situation that determines whether it would be better to drive or sell.
  • When Honda finally called me about my ima battery software update letter they referred to themselves as "American" Honda. I couldn't help but wonder what "Japan" Honda has to say about their ima battery, since they make a point of saying on the decal on the car "Made in Japan"? When did Honda lose their dedication to building and backing a quality product?
    Anyway, I didn't read all the posts and I tried to research any posts about a class action lawsuit(but found only one post) directly addressing the ima battery and how they broke the contract,imo, when the software update was
    installed. So I regret to ask a question that has already been addressed here but is there a class action suit in the works to join? Thanks for any info.
    Mark
  • PFFlyer@EdmundsPFFlyer@Edmunds Pennsylvania Furnace, PAPosts: 5,808
    The forums cannot be used to organize legal actions so please don't make any posts along those lines as they will have to be removed. Just the rules of the road. Thanks!

    PFFlyer@Edmunds

    Moderator - Hatchbacks & Hybrid Vehicles

  • You have a worthy point that it may make sense to keep driving the Civic if you have already replaced your IMA battery. The problem I have with getting a new IMA battery is I'm afraid they will deteriorate within a few years which means I could be in another battle with Honda or I will have to repair or replace them.

    Even if I had confidence that a new IMA battery pack would function well for 100K, my opinion is the Civic hybrid's design is fundamentally flawed - an inadequate gas engine and limited battery capacity means it is really not safe -- you will be deprived of adequate acceleration in some driving conditions, such as running the ac in hot weather in start and stop traffic.
  • bosslessbossless Posts: 179
    you will be deprived of adequate acceleration in some driving conditions, such as running the ac in hot weather in start and stop traffic.

    I have not noticed this problem with a good battery. It happened a lot when battery was bad.
  • sorry,my bad pf_flyer, I didn't do my research.
    mark
  • PFFlyer@EdmundsPFFlyer@Edmunds Pennsylvania Furnace, PAPosts: 5,808
    No problem... I appreciate your understanding

    PFFlyer@Edmunds

    Moderator - Hatchbacks & Hybrid Vehicles

  • My HCH IMA battery made it to 110k mi. before the software update did it in. RIP IMA battery you served me well. Honda, whether it be American or Japanese, is making a huge PR mistake with this one. They only need to look at Ford's Firestone tire problems or Toyota's sticking accelerator problem to figure out where this is going for them. I believe their decisions are coming straight from HQ in Japan.
    One does not by a new car for an investment. It is essentially a tool to take you from A to B. Since the car is running fine, I will keep it indefinately. I find Consumer Reports to be nitpicky. For the longest time they were recommending the car as a best buy, both new and used. Let's not take our eyes off the real problem, the software update. I believe Honda rushed a defective software patch onto us. I don't think they took into consideration individual driving habits or the age/milage of the batteries.
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