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Who Pays for our Roads?

24

Comments

  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,678
    I was only pointing out that there are people that only use a bike or public transport. I do believe you have advocated public funds to subsidize mass transit. Am I wrong there?

    And I just got through saying that people who ONLY ride a bike could not possibly afford to come anywhere CLOSE to paying it.

    And why not? They have little or no transportation expenses. Why not a fat license fee on bicycles? It is just another form of transportation. I hope you have a license on your Segway......
  • im_brentwoodim_brentwood Posts: 4,883
    How many people in the USA use bikes ONLY and do not have a car?

    My guess is not very darn many.


    Millions and millions of people do!

    They are called Children.
  • british_roverbritish_rover Posts: 8,476
    Well then we should tax those darn children they have been getting a free ride long enough. :P

    This topic is stupid.

    Bike paths are good and I see no problem with using some of the highway funds to pay for them assuming they actually go somewhere. If they are just for tourism, parks or recreation then they should come out of the state/national parks budget.
  • 0patience0patience Posts: 1,542
    How is this topic stupid?

    Why should I pay for a bunch of yuppy, save the world radicalist to ride their $3,000 bikes on the highway, where the highway is in pathetic shape, but they have great bike lanes that they DIDN'T pay for. The tax dollars I pay go to those lanes.
    I'm not talking about the average Joe who rides a bicycle for recreation, I am talking about the ones who push the "we need everything for bikes" deals.

    If bicyclists want special lanes, then they should have to pay license fees, insurance and taxes. Plain and simple.

    The problem with this world is everyone expects a free ride.
    They expect that they should get something on someone else's dime, which is pathetic. Make them pay their fair share.
  • british_roverbritish_rover Posts: 8,476
    Why should I pay for a bunch of yuppy, save the world radicalist to ride their $3,000 bikes on the highway

    Ehh after that your argument just kind of fell apart.

    You don't have much experience making yourself understood without yelling, screaming and generally shouting down the opposition do you?

    If you want people to listen to you then I would start off NOT, key word there, insulting people.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,678
    The property taxes in Anchorage are about the same as here in Boise

    I know my partner in Anchorage pays a lot more property tax than we do in San Diego. Then he does not have sales tax of about 8% and auto license that is out of sight. No income tax that CA has. So maybe he is doing OK.

    The one bad thing about the trails in Anchorage is many are rather remote from the highways. Several rapes, robberies and murders have occurred on the bike trails. Kind of scary to let your children use them.
  • 0patience0patience Posts: 1,542
    Uh, first off, I wasn't yelling.
    Secondly, I call them like I see them.
    Most of the people riding on the highways are the same people who drive SUVs (like landrovers), scream about global warming and want the world to change to suit their needs.
    So yes, they are yuppies, they want to save the world, as long as it doesn't affect their ways of life and they are radicalists.

    You don't have much experience making yourself understood without yelling, screaming and generally shouting down the opposition do you?
    You don't know much about me if you think that.
    Not like I care, but I am curious how you get the yelling and screaming from written words, that one confuses me.
    I guess the words just scream at you or jump off the page at you? :confuse:
    Interesting how most of your posts are ones where you try and stir things up. Seems to me, you are the one who does most the insulting.
  • gussguss Posts: 1,181
    Wow, can you promote anymore stereotypes about people using bike paths.

    I use the rails to trails around me and I am sure I don't qualify as a yuppy,a radicalist(can you even be both?)and I got my bike on e-bay for way less than $3,000.

    The old train bed they converted to a bike path actually is used for commuting because it parallels a mayor highway and river. It just does not happen to be near where I work. So I use it mainly for trying to get my fat butt in shape and on weekends to take the family down for a ride.

    I did not know that all taxes collected needed to go back to the people that paid them. I know all the senior citizens in my state will be disappointed when the lottery money has to go back to gamblers for new casinos.

    Saying that bikes and bike paths are good is kind of like saying mean people suck. It goes with out saying that the are better for the environment than cars and certainly better for your health.
  • 0patience0patience Posts: 1,542
    I did not know that all taxes collected needed to go back to the people that paid them. I know all the senior citizens in my state will be disappointed when the lottery money has to go back to gamblers for new casinos.

    Don't be stupid. That is a moronic analogy and you know it.
    Highway funds are dedicated funds. As such, should go for highways. Recreational funding, such as bike paths, should come from state park and recreational funding and should not be part of the highway. Using old rail paths that are no longer in use is a good form of using resources.
  • Stever@EdmundsStever@Edmunds YooperlandPosts: 38,917
    Let's all cut out the caterwauling and stick to the topic at hand please.
  • oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Posts: 6,007
    I say build bike paths everywhere so that no cyclist ever has to ride where I drive. Do you have any idea what damage a twisted up bike does to the paint job on your car? :P

    2009 PT Cruiser, 2008 Eclipse, 1995 Mark VIII, 1988 GMC Van

  • grbeckgrbeck Posts: 2,361
    guss: I did not know that all taxes collected needed to go back to the people that paid them. I know all the senior citizens in my state will be disappointed when the lottery money has to go back to gamblers for new casinos.

    Gasoline taxes are user fees designed to make the user pay for both the benefits being offered by the project (better roads make it easier to drive a vehicle) and the wear and tear caused by that use.

    As per the federal transportation act, gasoline taxes and other vehicle user fees that go into the Highway Trust Fund are being diverted to other non-road projects, such as bike paths.

    Given that current levels of revenue do not appear to be sufficient to maintain our roads and bridges, it is reasonable to ask whether diverting some funds for bike paths is the best possible use of those revenues, and whether bicyclists should perhaps pay at least something to maintain bike paths.

    guss: Saying that bikes and bike paths are good is kind of like saying mean people suck.

    It's isn't that bike paths are bad. (They aren't). I've used them myself. The question is who should pay for them, and whether we should divert funds from roads and bridges that are in dire need of maintenance to build them.

    guss: It goes with out saying that the are better for the environment than cars and certainly better for your health.

    I belong to a gym, which I use to maintain my health (which will reduce health care costs) and keep off excess weight (which will improve America, by preventing one more pot belly from marring the visual landscape).

    My gym membership, therefore, is a public benefit.

    Please list your address, so that I can send you the monthly bill for my gym membership. Keeping in mind the same spirit that you use to advocate taxing all drivers for bike paths, I'm sure that you will be happy to help America by making a monthly contribution to my gym membership fees. ;)
  • gussguss Posts: 1,181
    the argument is then that while bike paths are good we don't want the money coming from the highway fund. I would be fine with it coming from the general fund. It makes no difference to me where it come from, but if you say the government should not be in the bike path building business I would have a problem with that.

    I know the rationale for using gas tax money for paths is that they should relieve congestion on surface streets thus saving the need for additional roads. Whether this is effective or not I do not know. I do know a fair amount of people that actually commute by bike instead of using their car. I guess the real issue is how do we make them pay their share for using the bike paths and lanes.

    I am sure if you go to any of the biking forums you will get the other side of the issue ; "Iraq war, should bicyclists pay for it." But I am sure neither one of us wants to go down that road.

    BTW, since you work for the State of Pa , aren't I paying for your gym membership already? :P
  • grbeckgrbeck Posts: 2,361
    guss: I would be fine with it coming from the general fund. It makes no difference to me where it come from, but if you say the government should not be in the bike path building business I would have a problem with that.

    Perhaps a modest tax could be assessed on each new bicycle purchased, with the resulting revenue channeled directly to the Bicycle Path Trust Fund. Bicycle paths would thus be ensured a steadier stream of revenue.

    guss: I am sure if you go to any of the biking forums you will get the other side of the issue ; "Iraq war, should bicyclists pay for it." But I am sure neither one of us wants to go down that road.

    That's a different issue entirely. With bike paths, we are talking about diverting revenues from the Highway Trust Fund - which is already short of money and was originally set up to fund road and bridge projects - to pay for non-road projects.

    It is my understanding that the Iraq war, like all defense spending, comes out of the general fund. EVERYONE - not just bicyclists - is paying for it.

    guss: BTW, since you work for the State of Pa , aren't I paying for your gym membership already?

    I want a direct incentive. ;)
  • gussguss Posts: 1,181
    tax on each bike sold is something I could live with. But we both know that will never come close to funding bike paths.No one should have a free ride , literally. But bikes last so much longer than cars . Heck, I'm still riding the same bike I bought in 1976 with my grass cutting money.

    Maybe we need to register and inspect them every year. I can see it now , the Department of Bicycles, Scooters and Roller blades.
  • grbeckgrbeck Posts: 2,361
    Quite a few bicyclists I know do trade up regularly for the "latest and greatest." They follow developments in bicycles as eagerly as some people follow developments in new cars.
  • langjielangjie Posts: 247
    i don't think it costs that much more for bicycle paths. think of it like college sports. ncaa football and basketball are the big money makers. does the football program get all that money, no....the money is split within the school to fund other programs.

    i'd rather crooked politicians not get my tax money instead of cyclists.
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel a Certified Edmunds Poster.Posts: 11,558
    Oh don't get me started on bicyclists, way to many of them think that traffic laws don't apply to them.

    There are three types of people in this world. Those who are good at math and those who are not.

  • tedebeartedebear Posts: 832
    Oh man, don't even get me started about drivers who think bicycles are toys that should only be ridden on parking lots.

    Bicycles have the same rights to the road as any other vehicle. And, yes, we must obey the same laws. I always signal my turns, stop at all red lights and stop signs and ride as far to the right as I can where a sudden wind gust won't blow me off the road.

    I wish I had a dollar for all the infractions and dangerous acts I witness by motor vehicle operators on a daily basis.
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel a Certified Edmunds Poster.Posts: 11,558
    And, yes, we must obey the same laws.

    Yet I can count on one hand of a high school shop teacher the number of times I have seen a bicyclist stop at any of the 4 way stop signs around town.

    I wish I had a dime for every time I had to hit the brakes because some yahoo blew off the stop sign on the bike path and just flew out into traffic.

    And my favorite one was when I came to a complete stop at a four way stop the proceeded to make a left turn and almost hit the moron on the bike that at a high rate of speed just went through the stop sign then had the nerve to yell at me saying "Bicycles have the same right to use the roads". What a chumpolone.

    There are three types of people in this world. Those who are good at math and those who are not.

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