Subaru Crew - Dealers & Pricing

ateixeira

tex: so I guess it's AWD or folding seats, but not both!

Actually, I'm pro-wagon anyway.

More info: yes, you can get a 5 speed Outback or Legacy GT, and both are a bit peppier with it.

Keep in mind the GT is actually a little lighter and its smaller tire diameter give it effectively higher gearing for even a bit more pep.

Let me ask about how you intend to use it, though. Are you towing anything? Any light off roading? What kind of climate will you drive in?

For light duty off roading, dirt trails, gravel roads, etc, the Outback is the better choice for its extra ground clearance.

If you stick strictly to pavement, the GT is tuned for sporty performance and offers low profile tires for better handling/steering feel.

You can find either one for around $22 grand, plus tax, easily within your target price.

-juice

luckyrollover1

for the info. just driving highway and the gravel roads where i live.when we get bad snow the county seems to plow us out last! just hauling my bike around. but i drive to work the midnight shift and if i get stuck i need some gogo to get out of it myself. i will probably test an ob ltd because i like to have folding seats. also going to be taking grandbaby around in a car seat at times.it seems i am leaning to subaru because the safety and awd and 2nd gen airbags-read up on them 2 hours ago!!i also check out the service area of the dealers-i just walk in and start looking around and ask questions of the most senior man there. vw dealer didn't seem to mind once he figured out i was dead serious on buying one of these 2 cars. thanks again!

mary

lavalamp

Beth,

I've been ripped off and treated poorly with numerous times by Premier as well as when it was Rocky Mountain. One car had had two odometers replaced and not recorded. To be fair, the local Nissan dealer did the work and there was no way Premier could have known, but it took me six months to get a meeting with the owner.

I am friends of the former GM, who I have been told quit after some strange management moves. Knowing him did little for me in my relations with them.

At any rate, I agree with all those who said 30 miles is nothing. If the person drove to Eldorado and back, that would do it. I generally test drive out to Eldo or to Labajada and back. Both would put 30 miles on the odometer.

Tomorrow, I will be buying a new Outback from Lee Galles in Albu. I hate buying down there, but the prices are better and the service tends to be, too. I went to Rocky Mountain to test drive a Civic Si in 1995 and ended up buying in Albu. Did the same with the Subaru. I have yet to find a dealer in Santa Fe that cares.

Lee Galles deals with Autobuytel, so they will give you a great price right away. I was unable to get them to go lower than what they offered, however.
They also have a ton of cars on the lot.

If it were me, I'd check with them before making the deal. I say this mostly, I guess, because I have no great love for Premier.But my dealings with Galles so far have been good.

Good luck,

M

ateixeira

Mary: most cars have about 4 to 6 inches of ground clearance. The Legacy GT offers 6.3", above average. The Outback gives you an extra inch (7.3"), which may come in handy in heavy snow and on that gravel road.

Try to get a price quote before you go, so you're not pressured once you get there. You may even try via e-mail. Prices tend to hover around invoice.

My dad's planning on buying an auto Outback Limited from Fitzgerald Subaru, and current prices are from $300 to $600 under invoice. This is probably because the $500 regional incentive applies in our area (DC/MD).

I'd better go tell him!

-juice

francophile

The structural integrity of the '00 Legacy sedans is phenomenal. One of the reasons (but by no means the only reason) is that there is a metal plate behind the rear seat that is substantial enough to be a structural member. Folding seats put a big hole in that plate and thus affect rigidity.

This is a realization that dawned on me while I was almost standing on my head peering at the add-on crossbar that ran between the rear strut towers on a hot-looking Impreza in Maryland some weeks back. Dang, I thought - so THAT'S why Subaru ditched the folding seats - to add rigidity to the rear suspension! It can't be bad for stiffening the passenger space either.

Cheers,
WDB

p0926

Beth,

Agree with others that 30 miles isn't going to cause much in the way of wear and tear and anyway that's why you have a warranty. Hopefully the dealership is just incompetent and lost your order info but if not, the post regarding checking closely for body repairs is a good suggestion.

Just to let you know that all Subaru dealers aren't incompetent...my dealer called me the same day they unloaded my Forester off the truck and had it preped and ready to go the following day.

Also, make sure that the dealership agrees in writing to install the auto-dimming mirror and armrest extension at invoice.

Frank

bat1161

First, thank you to everyone for your patience with my periodic questions, and your prompt answers. This will be my first new car which is why I am taking a long time to make up my mind. It looks like the 2001 Forester 5 speed is the one.
Now though, I have another question: Is it worth it to go for the $2000(approx) extra for the S over the L. The only extras I noted with the S are:
-the CD player(nice, but I was thinking of going after market for it),
-heated seats and side mirrors(are they worth it?),
-windshield wiper de-icers.
One of my friends recommended going for the S model in case I want to change vehicles in the future. Any thoughts?

Again thank you for your time and patience.

Mark

ateixeira

You missed what I feel are the most important upgrades: 16" alloy wheels with lower profile tires, rear disc brakes, and a rear viscous limited slip differential for side-to-side distribution of power.

That means better handling, braking, and traction.

You also get vanity mirrors and some other cosmetic goodies, but I feel the upgrades mentioned above are the important ones.

Also, if you want the enormous moonroof and side air bags (under $900 for both), they only come on the S model. I feel the package is a bargain for what you get.

-juice

texsubaru

Though I think the rear brakes and limited slip differential are probably the Forester S's best point, I wouldn't be at all surprised if the majority of them are being bought because of the sunroof, though that all makes for a terribly expensive Forester, by my standards. Living in Central Texas, I have to chuckle at the idea of heated seats being much of a selling point here. Now electronically *chilled* seats would be big attraction here for as much as 6 months out of the year!

texsubaru

I (grudgingly) agree that, looking at it just from a body integrity standpoint, the more solid backing you get along with the Legacy Sedan's nonfolding rear seats probably does add some extra safety to the passenger compartment in a bad crash. The greater convenience factor of folding rear seats still weighs pretty heavily with me, but if you're strongly concerned with safety as is the Mary Ann whose post helped get me rolling (again) on this little topic, then you might actually see the limitations of the little pass-through port as a plus.

ateixeira

tex: Fitzgerald lists 3 Premium Foresters starting at $23.7k, and that includes auto. That may be a lot for someone shopping for an L at around $19k, but much less than you'd pay for any other SUV with similar equipment.

I guess it depends on your perspective.

-juice

miksmi

tex: FWIW, I'm with you that fold-down rear seats in a sedan are desirable; roll on! What I can't figure out is, if the wagon has folding rear seats, why not the sedan? Subaru (and all other manufacturers) market a wagon as having equivalent safety as a sedan, true? You don't see ads touting the extra safety (rigidity) of a sedan over a wagon (as they wouldn't sell any wagons). Perhaps there's a structural integrity issue in the sedan that precludes a fold-down rear seat. (I agree WDB that no fold-down seat allows engineering of extra rigidity, but is it required to prevent compromising the cabin in a rear end collision or roll-over?) Don't know if these are the correct terms, but the C pillars (behind the rear door) in the sedan and wagon are, of course, very different due to the different body styles. We need some automotive engineers in here. Me computer enginerd; me no help.

..Mike

PS - I solved the fold-down rear seat dilemma by going with a wagon, GT that is

ip01

Hi,
Right now there are rebates on all 2000 Legacy (including Outbacks). The Ideal price for you for 2000 Outback is to get it 200-300 over dealer's cost (meaning invoice minus rebate). However in Minnesota Outbacks are very popular, so that will be hard to get this price, but possible.
Dealers: Unfortunately there are not a lot of them in Minnesota, and most of them in twin cities. The best in my opinion is White Bear Subaru. They are easyly accessible and at least with my experience they give you price straight out. Ask for Sandy, she at least will not play games. Other salespeple there are not as good. I bought two subarus from her and every time she gave me straight answers and good deals.
Wayzata Subary on 394: They are too proud of their location on the main Highway, so their prices is generaly High, and sales however knowledgeable are quite rude.
Bloomington subary are OK, but they newer gave me a good enough deal.
Brooklin Center Subaru-Nissan suffer from their location: tucked far from the main roads. Their business is generally slowest, and they generally can't afford good deals, however I heard that before the end of the month they can get desperate and sell the car good. Do not expect grat knowledge about subarus from them though.
All I said is generalization based on my experience trying to find a great deal, there are exceptions grom a general rule.
I hope this helped,
Happy shopping, brace yourself it is hard out there.

ateixeira

I've seen a drawing of the Forester's body structure, and there is a thick brace from A-pillar to A-pillar running across, plus two other braces further back, also running across the width of the roof. This compensates for the open structure.

BMW is bragging that its 3-series wagon is 10% stiffer than it's sedan.

I imagine the GT has similar bracing, though I'm not sure how the moonroof effects this. Seems like they could have a brace and still allow a pass-through, but there are supposedly some upcoming rear-end crash tests it's designed to comply with.

-juice

jwilson1

According to Edmund's holdback in the NE may be different from the 3% around the rest of the country. In what way?

The reason I ask: yesterday I went out to look at Foresters. This was a new place for me (I've been to two others). Each of their sedans, outback, Foresters had a separate sticker that showed an added 500 -- 600 markup.

So I asked the saleman: "What's that for."

"Oh," he said, "it's a floorplan charge to cover our bank interest and so on. Don't worry about it. No one pays it."

I noticed that the used cars, too, were between 500 & 800 higher than what I'd been seeing at other stores.

Since I'm not ready to "negotiate," I didn't follow up on any of these strange attempts to, imo, drive business away.

The $600 added to the Foresters amounts to about 3% so it could be in lieu of holdback I guess, but in that case I'd think the other stores would be trying to do something similar.

I'm turned off by it, but also curious and would like to have your interpretation before I go back in.

Take care.
Joe W>

ateixeira

Each dealer has a different approach. That markup is probably fluff to make you feel like you got a better deal than you think you did.

For example, if you said "I paid $2000 off sticker" it may actually only be $1600 less.

Don't buy it. I wouldn't even buy at that dealer.

-juice

dhimakh

I have decided to buy a Legacy GT wagon. I have been doing some comparison shopping at dealers and on the web. I am looking for the wagon with only the automatic. I want to know if I can expect to pay close to the invoice price as some sites suggest. How much under MSRP can I expect to pay for this car?

skipd

Mark:

I was in the same situation as you not too long ago. I knew I wanted a Forester but was having difficulty deciding between the L and the S. I agree with Juice, the extras you get with the S are a bargain for the price.

However, (I may be in the minority when I say this but....) I prefer the look of the unpainted bumpers and side body cladding of the L. This was the main reason I went with a 2001 L, not to mention $2,200 difference in price. To me it makes the Forester look a little more sporty and rugged. I don't do any heavy off roading, but I do take my Forester on unpaved and gravel roads. I felt the unpainted cladding would hold up better against rocks and debris, and it wouldn't look so bad when it gets dirty (and it does get dirty).

The limited slip and those really cool 16 inch aluminum wheels are the items I will miss the most. However, I don't believe the limited slip is absolutely necessary in my situation and I will probably get a second set of wheels anyway so I have a summer set and a winter/snow set of wheels.

Ofcourse, all of my comments are subjective and what it really comes down to is what YOU want and what YOU need. I believe your vehicle is definitely a reflection of who you are. So be reasonable but don't make too many compromises with what you want.....you will probably own your Soob for quite some time.

I got a 2001 Forester L in Blue Ridge Pearl and added a CD player and tweeter kit. It's exactly what I wanted and I haven't regretted my decision one bit.

By the way Juice.....I took the Forester fishing this morning and stopped to take a couple of photos of it by the Lake. I'm hoping to get a couple of photos with my canoe topped on it as well. How can I get them to you for your website?

Take care all,

Skip

skipd

The title to my last response was chopped....and it was soooooo creative

Mark....to "S" or not to "S", that is the question

I don't get that creative very often...needed to get that one in

Take care,

Skip

shndvn

Hi, my 2001 Forester S (prem) should be arriving
next week and I'd like to get the windows tinted
as soon as possible. I've checked several web
sites about legal limits (etc) and read quite a
few messages here in other topics. But I would
like input from the people here who have had
good or bad experiences with window tinters in
the (south) SF Bay area. Also, as a question
for everyone here who has had tinting done on
their Subaru, what kind of film did you get,
how dark, and how did you like it?

I'm considering Solarguard, 3m, llumar (in that
order) and want to get the metallic kind in
something like 35% (or darker). My Forester
will be silver.

Here are the two places I've got so far:

Quality Window Tinting (San Jose, I think)
California Auto Tinting (Campbell)

Thanks!

wmiller4

Hello to all,

I was wondering if anyone out there has dealt with Williams Auto World in Lansing Michigan when buying a Subie? If there is, how was your experience? How is there service department? If not is there anyone out there who has bought from a great dealer in Michigan (lower part of the state)?
Thank you in advance.

ateixeira

Skip - just e-mail them to me. The address is in my profile. Hurry - I'm adding some pages as we speak.

dhimakh: don't reference MSRP, it's a vague, high number that has almost no meaning. Stick to invoice price, and remember they also get a holdback, which is their profit when they sell at invoice. The on-line dealer I usually refer to is selling a GT sedan for about $100 over invoice.

Shane: I have Solargard in 35% on my Green Forester, and it looks good. 20% looks even better, though some find it too dark. I'm on the east coast, though.

-juice

barnegat

hi there,
i've been following these subaru boards for some time and haven't seen this question addressed before so here goes:
has anyone ever heard of 'trading up' to a newer, more expensive model subaru. i am leasing a 1998 legacy and would really like to 'trade up' to a 2001 outback w/ the H6 when they become available this fall.
has anyone ever heard of doing something like this or am i just kidding myself? are there benefits or drawbacks? any info would be helpful, everyone on this board seems extremely knowledgable when it comes to anything subaru.

ateixeira

Getting out of a lease can get very expensive. If you go to the same dealer, they may work something out, but beware.

When does you lease run out? Looks like you may be near the end of a 3 year lease, so I'd just let it run out, and shop for the H-6 then.

-juice

texsubaru

Don't know that much about the film on my windows, since it was done by the dealership before I got my red Forester, but it's a 3M product that supposedly has a lifetime -- the vehicle's rather than mine, I assume (Subaru dependability aside, I do sorta hope to outlive the Forester) -- guarantee.
Looks good, I think. I was a little concerned at first about it hurting nighttime visibility, but that hasn't proven to be the case, and anything that helps keep a vehicle's interior temp down in Texas during the summer is welcome.

ateixeira

I have poor night vision, so my tint actually helps to reduce glare. In fact, I wish I had chosen 20% instead of 35% tint for this reason.

Though I can back up safely, and I'm not sure if a 20% tint would hinder rear visibility.

-juice

luckyrollover1

going to go test a 2000 ob ltd wagon at liberty city but this is a 3 hour drive for me. the dealer close to me has no manuals on the lot. is it okay to test at one dealer then have the closer dealer trade for the car i want with farther dealer?
also i think quote is too high but will try to talk a better deal.they quoted me a total price around 25555 less taxes because i will pay those in indiana where i live.this is for ob ltd with cargo net or holder? upgrade security and 6 disc cd. anyone have any experience with lynwood motors in illinois?
they only sell subies no other brand. the guys at liberty said they sell 6 different types of cars.
i tend to think the true subie dealer will know more and do a better job with service. but i'm not sure.
going to go next week and need a few words of encouragement please-my first deal on my own and after a bad accident so i really need a car so i can get back to work

thanks

mary ann

ateixeira

When two dealers are involved, there are two layers of profit, so you may end up paying a bit extra (maybe).

My guess is an exclusive dealer would indeed provide better service, but buy whereever you find the best deal. You can get service or do warranty work anywhere.

When is the local dealer getting a new shipment? It's worth asking.

-juice

yellowbikedon

Hi Mary Ann,

I have used Liberty Subaru since 1992 and I think they are the best! While they are a "super store" selling six brands, they do sell approximately 40 Subarus monthly. Their service is beyond reproach, starting with the service manager, Jim Bettis, who knows the make and is a pleasure to work with. The head Subaru mechanic, Elisha, has a love for the marque and is extremely knowledgeable. These guys have taken care of my former SVX, my current Outback and my wife's Impreza. The best complementI can add is that I trust them and their judgment!

The product manager, Elmer Hansen, is perhaps the most informed and reliable Subaru person in the greater area. He knows the business and understands customer loyalty is the key to success. He and others at Liberty strive to meet this goal.

I know three hours is a "pain" but the returns will be worth while. I drive past a local dealer five minutes from home, past one 20 minutes away, and go an hour just to have Liberty service our cars. This even includes oil changes!

By the way, I am NOT in any way connected with the dealerrship! I just think it important to recognize and extoll good things when I find them!

Don

armac13

Well it's about that time. Just completing a 48 hour test drive of a 2001 S (more about that later) and love it. Any suggestions on a good price. I'm in Vancouver, BC. Unfortunately access to "invoice price" in Canada is very limited. Thanks for any information.

Ross

ateixeira

Ross: I sifted through some archived topics, and found this in a post by luck11, who lives in Canada:

"Actually, invoice prices are available in Canada
through the Automibile Protection Association.
Office in TO, Montreal and Vancouver I believe."

That ought to at least help you begin your hunt.

-juice

armac13

I know about the APA. I've been lurking here for a looong time. Just finally coming out of the closet (or the woods or wherever lurkers lurk). Just too cheap and lazy, so far, to do the APA thing ($25 per invoice). :-)

firedog1000

Anyone in the Northeast have any info/experience re: fair lease rate for a 2000 Leg GT wagon (auto)? What about down payment too?

ateixeira

Seema: congrats and welcome to the club!

Time to update the profile. Did you keep the Audi and also buy an Outback, or trade in the Audi? If so, was it giving you problems?

I figure your final price to be just below invoice with the rebate. Sounds good, especially since it sounds like they treated you right.

-juice

jaggs

Juice :

The Outback is our second car. No problems to report with the Audi so far. It's a 1999 model and is really fun to drive, but we needed a second car that was more of a "family" vehicle.

Seema

ateixeira

Well then, you ended up with two fine vehicles. Way to go!

-juice

armac13

and bought my 1st Subaru today. Got it from the dealer that did the 48 hour test drive - Don Docksteader, Vancouver, BC. Told both local dealers that I did not want to haggle, just give me your best price. Involved a trade-in unfortunately. Based upon a lot of research, much of it here (difficult to translate into "Canadian", the systems are very different), I had a range of net price of about $800 which I could accept. Docksteader came in $300 under my ceiling, the other dealer was $3100!!!! higher, but was willing to negotiate. I said no thanks. Assuming there are no glitches with the financing, I will be a happy owner in a couple of days. 2001 Forester S, auto, Sierra gold, a few extra goodies. Very friendly buying experience, treated with respect. Car is in stock, has 14 km & A SOLD SIGN on it. Yahoo!

Ross

befishman

A belated thank you to all who responded after my nasty encounter with the subaru dealer in Santa Fe. I'll be picking the car up soon and will have a very very good look at it before handing over any money. If things don't look perfect I'll go down to Albuquerque as suggested. Too bad the Santa Fe folks are the only Subaru dealers within 100 miles of my home and therefore will continue to get my business for servicing the Forester.

Regardless, I am very appreciative of your quick replies...thanks!

Beth

tta3

Hi. Any words of wisdom on extended warranty packages? Our dealer offered us the subaru added security plan, 7 years/100,000 miles, $50 deductible at $1495. Is that a good offer? Anything better available on the web? Thanks.

40ounces

I recently bought a 1999 Legacy L, 30th Ann. with
CD player, tweeter kit and alloy wheels. I need
lower car payments so I am looking at selling. Can
anyone give me a ballpark on what it should sell
for? It only has 2,500 miles. I ran figures on
Edmunds and KBB and got a wide range of numbers.

ateixeira

Ross: you da man, congrats!

tta3: you can get a quote here and compare. That's from 1Source.

Still, you have 5/60 on the powertrain, and they tend to be reliable anyway. Also, the few exceptions tend to show any glitches early on, so you're likely to be able to fix them under the factory warranty.

-juice

texsubaru

Frankly, $1495 that sounds a little high to me, especially with a $50 deductible. If you have more than one Subaru dealer in your area, you should try calling another one -- or more -- and getting a quote (and you don't have to buy a Subaru Added Security warranty from the same dealer you buy your Subaru from).

tta3

thanks tex and teix

armac13

Picked up the new Forester last night. The dealer was very professional and thorough. A few surprises. The security upgrade and A/C filter are on back order, was told in advance, should be in on Thursday. Wheel locks and floor mats were added at no charge! The tank was full to the brim, 20 km. on the clock and they gave me a gift food basket - including smoked wild salmon. First oil change will be free. Perfectly clean, no scratches, etc. There is an annoying rattle, will have it looked at when the security is installed. For now I will just have to turn up the Bela Fleck CD and motor on.

A grinning Ross

mcj13

The car was a leased vehicle and the dealer says they filled out the paperwork wrong, that Subaru didn't know they wanted to buy the car and Subaru was planning on selling it at their dealer auction. He didn't realize the mistake until yesterday and says he had some trouble getting Subaru to sell the car to him but that they did agree and now it's just a matter of them paying Subaru for the car and then getting the title from Subaru.

So I can get my car today, but I'd be driving around for about a week on their dealer plate and their insurance. I'd have to pay for the car today for them to let me take it, but I won't be the legal owner until they get the title and sign it over to me.

Should I be concerned? What should/can I ask for in writing to make sure that I do get the title in a timely fashion and if not get a full refund?

The dealership is about two years old and sell new and used Subarus.

Mary

ateixeira

Ross: good to hear, congrats!

The floor mats are standards on every Forester, a nice touch, since most manufacturers nickel-and-dime you for them.

Mary: don't sweat it. Like you said, it's their insurance, and if it falls through they'll have to give your money back, of course. If not, tell them you just may "accidentally" drive it off a cliff. They'll change their tone quick!

-juice

subaru_team

If you are not comfortable with what your are hearing, you can always call us (1-800-SUBARU3). Tell the Representative that Patti Mickel advised you to call and they will follow-up with the dealer to make sure everything is in order. Have the Representative let me know when you call so we can make sure you are well taken care of.

Our Representatives get a lot of training and our dealers know how important customer's are. Part of the Subaru Difference that we talk about includes Adventure, but that doesn't mean the sales process.

I look forward to all of your paperwork being straightened out quickly and we will help as best we can!

Patti
Subaru Team

mcj13

but the dealer's probably sweating more than me.

I went to pick up my car today and whoever typed up the sale agreement used the wrong tax rate and it was too late in the day for them to correct it. They gave me the car anyway and they're going to come to my job tomorrow to finish the sale agreement and collect payment.

I still won't have the title until sometime next week and I'll be driving on they're insurance until then because Mass will not give me insurance until the title is signed over to me.

The dealership seems trustworthy and seems to be bending over backwards to get me in the car asap; given what I've been driving I appreciate it greatly.

At this point, I'm just nervous about worst case scenarios like what if I get in an accident, am I really covered.

Thanks Patti and Juice for your responses. I'll be talking to the dealer again tomorrow and if things don't sound right, I just may call.

In the meantime, I'm gonna love my free car, Mary

booter

Hello all,
We had a bad experience with a Subaru dealer that we drove 150 miles to see last weekend. We knew exactly what we wanted, and they had it on the lot. He talked in circles and would not give us a price, then eventually stated that the "sticker" was 30,000 and that they could come down to "say 26,000"! All he wanted to talk about was whether we were trading in what we drove there. We already know what the MSRP is, the dealers invoice etc. Yep, we'd probably have brought it home that day.
Needless to say, we left VERY angry and fumed for the 150 miles back home.
Since there isn't a closer dealer, we've been looking at ordering one (yep. the 2001 Forester S, loaded) online. Anyone have any experience doing this? Or, should we just drive 150 miles in the other direction to the next dealer?
Thanks for the thoughts and advice.

Theresa

ateixeira

Theresa: try Car Bargains.

Another idea is to visit the Subaru web site and use the dealer search tool.

What I'd suggest with the latter is to contact dealers by e-mail. It's much less intimidating than haggling in person.

Mary: free? My favorite price.

Folks, welcome Patti to our club. She's from Subaru, and I'm sure she'll prove to be an asset to the Subaru Crew.

-juice