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Honda Odyssey Engine Ping, Detonation, Preingition issues

ping3ping3 Posts: 11
There are a few of us on this board that are having this engine ping, detonation, preignition issue/ noise from our vans. All models! The problem is that Honda can't fix it or does not know how to fix it so they are doing nothing. Read below for how catastrophic this issue is. I need to know who else is having this issue.

It's definitely not " normal ". My van (07 Touring) does it on initial acceleration, just before and after the vans shift points at 50km/h(30mph) and 70km/h(45mph) under light acceleration, and up hills especially when the engine is hot.

The knock sensor is supposed to prevent this from happening.

The problem is real! Honda Canada and my dealer said, after working on it for 3 weeks, that it is indeed a pre-ignition/ detonation noise. They don't no why it's doing it, and they don't know how to fix it!!!!

The problem is defined by Wikipedia in 2 ways but the result are the same :

Knocking (also called pinging)-

Colloquially detonation—in internal combustion engines occurs when air/fuel mixture in the cylinder has been ignited by the spark plug and the smooth burning is interrupted by the unburned mixture in the combustion chamber exploding before the flame front can reach it. The engineered combusting process ceases, because of the explosion, before the optimum moment for the four-stroke cycle. The resulting shockwave reverberates in the combustion chamber, creating a characteristic metallic "pinging" sound, and pressures increase catastrophically. It can range from hardly noticeable to complete engine destruction.

Detonation or pre-ignition-
The fuel/air mixture is normally ignited slightly before the point of maximum compression to allow a small time for the flame-front of the burning fuel to expand throughout the mixture so that maximum pressure occurs at the optimum point. The flame-front moves at roughly 33.5 m/second (110 feet/second) during normal combustion[citation needed]. It is only when the remaining unburned mixture is heated and pressurized by the advancing flame front for a certain length of time that the detonation occurs. It is caused by an instantaneous ignition of the remaining fuel/air mixture in the form of an explosion. The cylinder pressure rises dramatically beyond its design limits and if allowed to persist detonation will damage or destroy engine parts.

Consequences of Knocking or Pre-ignition
Engine knocking has disastrous consequences for the engine, since it leads to the catastrophical wear of the combustion chamber walls, through particle wear for moderate knocking, to welding for serious knocking. This is due to the contact between those walls and high temperature gases resulting from the unwanted explosion. The processes also lead to a 'knocking' noise for the engine, that give its name to the phenomenon.

A big problem us owners are having is finding enough of us to recognize our vans have this problem and to make Honda do something about it - I think they should buy the vans back and do the research on them that is required to fix all of them.
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Comments

  • i have an 05 EXL-RES and i am experiencing exactly the same problem as you described. The thing is that i have to roll down the front passanger-side window to hear the metallic noise. I took my van to the dealers several times (different ones) for this specific issue but still no fix/reprod.
  • i have a 1995 Odysey with the same engine noise and a whisthling noise before transmission change ,espiecially in lower gear 1-2 please post answers if any thanks in advance ed.
  • I'm so glad (sort of) to find your post. I have a 2007 EX-L - have had it for 10 months. For several months now (most of its life), it has had this knock. I can best describe it as sounding like a 1978 Bonneville! It just sounds like an old car with a rattly engine - not how I want my new car to sound. It happens mostly around 30-40 mph, especially if I am driving in that range and let off the gas and then re-accelerate. It also happens on initial acceleration from a stop.

    I've mentioned it to the dealer on several visits for other issues/oil changes. Last time, a mechanic tried several different tweaks (though I don't know exactly what) and it didn't really help. But yesterday, I took it in just to have the knock looked at again since we're nearing the end of the first year. I was basically dismissed. First they couldn't even hear it until I took the mechanic for a ride. They told me that it was the knock sensor "doing its job" (CREATING knock, I wonder?!). It was normal. They would call the Techline to see if they had any insight and get back to me, but there was probably nothing to be done with it.

    I'm also interested to read up a little on knock issues because I did try a tank of premium gas per the recommendation of the mechanic last time and it sounded better for about half the tank. I thought that meant it didn't fix it (maybe wasn't a knock/octane issue) but now I'm seeing that this is common when the tank gets low.

    Anyway, please keep posting about your progress with Honda. I don't intend to let this rest at "normal" but I also don't relish the idea of pushing this and becoming the crazy lady that keeps coming back for the "sound" in her van.
  • an update...The day after I initially posted about this, I got a call back from my service rep at Honda. They had called the Techline and found out that there is a service bulletin out for Pilots, Odys and Ridgelines. I can't remember all of the ins and outs of it, but they ordered me some new parts (I think the A pipe is part of what they're doing) and they're repairing it for me on Monday. I'm happy they're at least trying something, but disturbed to see this popping up as a more common problem - and not all that optimistic that they are going to make the noise go away.

    I will post in the new forum area specific to this problem and will update if whatever they do helps (with more detail on what it is they're doing).

    Oh, and on replacing the knock sensor, they said that the knock sensor was doing its job (and might actually be the reason for this "normal" sound - ha!). They did mention some indicator that would be tripped if there was a problem with the knock sensor and that indicator is showing that the sensor is fine. So they ruled that out as a solution.
  • please get a copy of the TSB and post it here so that i can take it to my dealer. thanks
  • get a honda dealer to do tsb 07-028. it sould take care of the ping!!
  • ac2000, sorry to be so long in getting back on this. I had immediately scanned the service bulletin for you but could not for the life of me figure out how to post it on this forum (cumbersome forum). Anyway, I took the car in for the service bulletin fix and the car did the knocking as I drove it out of the dealership from the repair (and added a new creak in the back slider door!). No fix. And it's just worse again now. It's time for an oil change and I'll be back on them again to try to find a solution. This is annoying! If anyone else finds the answer, please post it.

    Incidentally, the bulletin was the one silverex referenced (did that work for you silverex?). Bummer. I would definitely give it a try but no luck here!
  • To characterize the problem:

    1. Slight engine knocking at low speed (35-40 miles) up hill.
    2. Hears it more clearly from from passenger window.
    3. Premium gas can reduce the knocking sound level but can never eliminate the knocking completely.
  • My Story: The reported noise arose after 15 months of ownership, very noticeable on right side of vehicle (passenger window down). I, too, was very worried about pinging and the potential damage to engine. Put high octane into tank to see if there would be a difference, but noted no change.

    Brought to dealer to get the ping, exhaust drone, and couple other issues fixed. Got car back with all problems fixed! Repair documents recommended that the TSB07-028 parts get ordered to rectify the pinging noise. Service adviser stated that they will call when the parts come in. Apparently they did something to the van to fix the problem while they had it, because I have not heard the ping/knock/chirp since the repairs a few months ago.

    When the problem first started, I suspected that the problem may have been the belt (it's on the right side of the vehicle, right?). There is actually a stitch line in the belt where the ends are joined. That section was looking ragged and worn despite the 17K miles on the vehicle. When I got the vehicle back from dealer, it appeared to have a brand new belt even though the repair documents said nothing about replacing the belt. A little odd if the dealer did that, but its not making the noise now!

    And they have not called me about the parts coming in on TSB07-028, but I don't think I need them, since it sounds fine.
  • garygary Posts: 39
    OK...I've searched everywhere for the TSB 07-028 but cannot find it. Can someone direct me to it? I really appreciate it!
  • My 2006 Odyssey LX has the same knocking on a warm engine starting at 20mph uphill. Started doing it at around 14k miles. I put premium in it and can't hear it now.
  • My 2007 Odyssey is having the Ping issues. I took it to the dealer and no answers. They swear at Honda World in California that it is a soft ware issue. I will not stop pushing this issue with the dealer, I just hope that this forum can gain enough mommentum to force Honda to do something. I feel cheated. My van sounds terrible. California has a great Lemon Law. After a few more attempts at the dealer and I guess I'll try that.
  • I have the same problem. I have had my van for less than 3 months and it hurts to hear it ping so much. I was told by the dealer to try Chevron to no avail. Keep the word going so we can get some resolution.
  • mikeitmikeit Posts: 2
    Had seen it, had read it, but cannot find it now either. Bring this TSB number up at the dealer - would hope they can pull it up.

    My ping was fixed and is still fixed after several months. Still don't know what they did to fix it as I am still waiting for them to call about getting the TSB07-028 part. I'm just glad it was not truly pinging. Really think it was the serpentine belt.
  • I thought my ping was gone after I put premium in it, but it is still there. Harder to hear in the cold weather. I also get around 15mpg- 16mpg which seems pretty low. I don't know if these things are related.
  • Went to dealer today to talk about the noise. The service person at the desk knew nothing and tried in vain to search for the bulletin. Luckily one of the mechanics happened by and he knew all about it. He said there is a bulletin out (referred to in this forum). I said, I had heard it doesn't really work, and he replied that "It doesn't, but you might as well do it anyway." He said it does help, but often doesn't make it go away. He said a guy came in twice with it being really loud, and he was able to reduce the noise with the bulletin fix. He also said the courtesy van they use to cart customers around does it. There is recently added a new fix in the bulletin so they now have two things they do that require special order parts for both of them. The new (i think) fix is "the A pipe under the engine, it has an inner pipe inside it that breaks its spot weld and rattles." He said he stuck a "crow bar under it and could feel the rattle. I asked him if there was anything in this noise related to Pinging or engine knock that could damage the engine and he said it had nothing to do with that. So I am relieved, at least until I find out that this was all wrong and the engine needs replacement at 40k.
  • If there were a physical pipe with a spot weld broken Honda would jump for joy. Then, they would have something to fix. A pipe can be replaced. Don't you see. If it were merely an "A" pipe they would replace the whole piece and fixed. Don't let them convince you this is not harming your van. Their job is to make $$$$$. As long as they keep us confused, they can keep us separate. Separate, we have no power. My case has been accepted by a lemon law attorney here in California. I don't know what will come of this. But I will feel better knowing that Honda will at minimum have to explain this problem to a professional.
  • I am a new 2008 Honda Odyssey owner and I have noticed the engine knocking/ping almost from day one. It is as described by others in this forum - at low rpms, upon initial acceleration, more noticeable up hills, etc.. Does not sound like an exhaust pipe weld issue. Sounds like typical engine knock to me, akin to selecting too high a gear in a manual transmission car. I was a weekend mechanic for a time, so I know the sound of engine knock when I hear it. For all I know, they all do it, but I seriously doubt it. The average housewife probably would not notice, but any car guy would notice it in a second. Now it makes sense for a manual to knock upon acceleration from a high gear at low rpm, but not a new Honda with an automatic transmission.

    I have not brought it in to have it checked out yet, but after reading the comments on this thread I am not very encouraged. Can you guys can provide an update on the status of your Odysseys? We bought this car hoping to keep it for many years. However, there's no way I'm keeping this car more than the three year warranty period if this problem can't be fixed. In fact, I'll be tempted to dump it after one year (thanks to its high resale values).
  • Hey fiend bear,
    Guess I'm the "average housewife" who did notice this as it has bugged me from the beginning and my husband thought I was nuts (though now he doesn't). Anyway, I don't know if anyone is getting anywhere with this, but I'm looking into the lemon law after 4 tries by the dealership with no end in sight. I think I'll take it back one more time and then start the process. Curious to know if anyone is having any other luck.
  • Hi mommobile2,

    Kind of the reverse for us - I noticed it first, but my wife definitely hears it now too. We're not ones to complain about strange noises either, but engine knock is of course not wise to disregard.

    I saw only one post where the owner had the issue resolved. If I'm not mistaken, I think they replaced the "serpentine" belt on that Odyssey. What was the service bulletin fix that you tried?

    It really does sound like a timing issue to me. I used to time my cars just shy of knocking for maximum punch and would more often than not just do it by ear. A slight change in timing can cause considerable knocking though. Would also like to hear from others about this issue, so I can steer the Service dept in the right direction. Thanks!
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