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Honda Odyssey Engine Ping, Detonation, Preingition issues

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  • Don't let Honda cheat you out of your hard earned money. I am still awaiting judgement in my lemon law case here in CA. I have had my van in 5 times. Each time they have repalced a part and each attempt has failed to correct this malfunction. I promise to post the disposition of my case or any fix to the ping issue as I will continue to take my van in for correction. Honda wants you to get tired and give up. I know answers come slow when posting in this manner but please continue to monitor this site.
  • ping3ping3 Posts: 11
    Hey all.

    I'm the person that started this forum thread and I'm regretfully pleased that all of you are in this situation as well, as I glad I'm not alone in this! My van has been back to the dealer many time since but still no fix and it doesn't matter which grade or type of fuel I use(92 octane only makes it ping less). To this day from my first post I have been fighting to have Honda take the van back and give me a new one as mine is only a lease. I felt in the beginning that I was doing Honda a favour as the vehicle will eventually go back to them. Now I really don't care. I do all my services every 4,000 miles using only Honda parts and keep all my receipts so in the end when this lemon goes back to them, I can say that I did everything right to prevent any user/operator damage and it is their fault!!! Unfortunately I don't have any good news for those of you who own your vans :( . I hope that those of you who are bringing this to court have the best of luck and we get some resolution for this.I will keep you all posted if I have any news to report and.......
    Thanks again for joining this thread.

    Ping3
  • pooh875pooh875 Posts: 9
    I TOOK MY 2007 EX-L IN AND THEY REPLACE THE TRANSMISSION AND ADJUSTED THE VALVES I TOOK IT THE 2ND TIME AND THEY TOLD ME MAYBE IT WAS THE TYPE OF GAS I WAS PUTTING IN THE VAN SO THEY TOLD ME TO RUN IT OUT TO EMPTY A FEW TIMES AND REFUEL IT WITH A HIGHER GRADE I DID THAT AND THE ENGINE STILL PINGS I TOOK IT BACK TO THE DEALER THEY TOLD ME THEY CAN'T HEAR A PING SO I HAD TO TAKE A MECHANIC WITH ME ON A RIDE AND HE HEARD IT SO THEY CHANGED 16 DIFFERENT THINGS ON MY ENGINE AND STILL THE ENGINE PINGS SO I CALLED AMERICAN HONDA AND TOLD THEM THE PROBLEM THEY TOLD ME THAT THEY CAN'T DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT SO I CALLED MY LAWYER AND FAX HIM ALL MY SERVICE RECORDS AND HE TOLD ME I HAVE A GOOD CASE SO ILL LET YOU KNOW WHAT HAPPEND
  • fiend_bearfiend_bear Posts: 18
    I think the engine ping is a bigger problem than Honda will admit. I don't think it is confined to Odysseys either. I noticed a new Honda Pilot with ping yesterday too, probably with the exact same engine. Ours isn't too bad on our 2008 EX. Mid grade gas definitely helps, but it definitely pings. I think Honda really screwed up somewhere on this engine. There are probably tens of thousands out there with ping, but the untrained ear would not have a clue and think it is "normal". Besides with the windows up or stereo on or chattering on the cell phone, it would not be noticeable, even to the trained ear.

    I don't think we will keep our EX for more than 2 years and will never buy a Honda again. With our new 2008 EX, ping is just one of several issues. We have never owned a car with such POOR initial build quality. These vans are built in Alabama and it SHOWS! Steering column knock, wheel alignment, rattles & squeaks galore, bad outdoor temperature sensor, horribly uncomfortable seats - all with only 2,800 miles on it! We will sell while still under warranty & let someone else deal with the burnt valves.
  • gavanmomgavanmom Posts: 32
    Thank you all! I knew that I wasn't crazy....like the Honda service people made me feel. I've posted on the Ody transmission forum many times, I have an 07 EX that is on it's third new transmission in less than a year. We've had the engine ping since new, now we just have a double shifting jerking tranny and the engine ping. Our third! There is a relationship between the Honda crappy transmissions and the engine ping, ours get's worse the more the tranny messes up. I'm also the "average soccer mom" that happens to be married to the dual engineer and auto buff so he concurs that the sounds and characteristics of our Ody are horrible. We've filed for the lemon law and are awaiting our arbitration hearing here in Georgia.

    We have a 99 Ford windstar with 140K miles now and had to do an update to the engine software for the ping that it had.

    Honda says our noise is the torque converter making noise..... obviously it converts tourqe into engine pings and transmission jerks!

    I will keep you all informed of our lemon law case. If we make it there. This is our first and last Honda van.
  • pcullenpcullen Posts: 11
    Hi. I have an 07 Odyssey EX-L that was pinging and clunking over bumps. The pinging was actually a faulty intermediate shaft heat shield, TB 07-028. The interesting thing was when I called American Honda, they said my vin # was not associated with that TB, but my dealer said the part was defective. So far, I don't hear the pinging anymore. If it returns, I'll reply back. As far as the clunking from the right front end when going over bumps, there was a lack of lubrication in the steering shaft spline down near the rack. Can you believe that? I tempted to believe the quality control at the assembly plant in Alabama is lacking. The other problem the dealer fixed was that the rear disc brakes were warped - and they were that way from the factory.
  • ping3ping3 Posts: 11
    I know the TSB 07-028 well. I think that Honda tried that fix on just about all of our vans in the beginning. The noise that we are hearing is from inside the engine. It is most noticeable on my 07 Ody Touring after a 20-30 minute drive or longer, but especially after a longer drive followed by a 10-15 minute stop and then driven again. This is when the engine is at full operating temperature and the heat of the actual engine components are "hot". This is known as going through a "hot soak" period. Mine pings up any hills on light to moderate acceleration and at the transmissions 1-2, 2-3, and 3-4 shift points of the transmission; after the previous mentioned criteria has been met. It can also be reproduced by placing the van in drive with one foot on the brake and one foot on the gas, by holding the brake very firmly and slowly increasing the engine RPM up to the "stall" speed and not letting the van move. (ONLY do this in a safe area with no obstacles around you!!!) The longer you hold this exercise the worse the pinging/detentation noise gets. This is because you are simulating the load of the engine going up a hill. As an automotive technician for almost 19 year now I know what I am talking about. I think that Honda is listening but just not caring enough about us yet. :sick:
  • pcullenpcullen Posts: 11
    Out of curiosity, what octanes of fuel have you tried? And you're a Honda technician, correct? And Honda is not giving you an explanation? If so, that is really troubling. I just got my van back and haven't had a chance to create the hot soak period, so when I do, I'll let you know what I hear. Do you think the VCM has anything to do with this problem? Have you ever heard of the pinging on non-VCM engines?
  • ping3ping3 Posts: 11
    First off I'm not a Honda tech. I was a Chrysler tech for 10 years before I moved to a very busy shop that works on all makes and models. I have tried 87, 89 and 92 octane fuels. All do it, but it does it the least on 92 octane. From what I read on this board and from my Honda dealers is that both the VCM and Non-VCM engines both ping.
  • fiend_bearfiend_bear Posts: 18
    Our non-VCM 2008 EX pings. Higher grade fuel helps, but not enough to really matter. Honda has a real problem on its hands with this engine and so far they are not coming clean. I noticed this ping on a new Pilot with the SAME engine recently! They need to figure this out fast - could be a software fix, but could also be a timing belt issue. No way they will step up to the plate if it's a timing belt issue (too expensive to fix). Either way, we probably are not going to wait for the burnt valves & will sell before the warranty is up unless a fix is found soon.
  • We are in the same boat as everyone else. We leased a 2007 EX starting last summer and heard the ping within a month of owning it. We have brought in back to our dealer a number of times and have had the same response. They are telling us it's a software issue and the car thinks it is running a higher octane gas so it over sparks to compensate. Honda America has told us it has no effect on the engine. ARE THEY FOR REAL. How can this not have any effect on the engine. We are so frustrated and want to be done with this van. My wife has wanted this vans for a long time and is so dissapointed with it. What ever happened to Honda making quality cars. I am thinking we need to follow the lemon law route with some of the other owners. We just want out of the lease so we can move on to a van that doesn't sound like it's 10 years old and never maintained. For what it's worth we live in PA. :mad:
  • I had a 2002 Odyssey which had the big transmission problem which was listed in the recall but because certain gears were not dark enough, the failed transmission was not under the recall extended warranty (honda canada said it was a different issue.).

    so i trade it in for a brand new 2008 Odyssey.
    I too have the ping problem in the way it was described above. acc up a hill causes ping, less ping with ultra 92 octane but the car is rated for the cheap gas (well relatively cheap at todays gas prices).

    I also noticed some pretty crappy gear changes. there is always a sudden drop in power while gears are changing and decisions to change gears are bad ones.

    My best guess is that compromises were made in the re-engineered transmission to lower the failure rate found in 1999 - 2004 models. lower the stress on the tranny by widening the shift time and dropping power on shifts - making it gentler on the clutch(es)? This is just a guess ofcourse but would help explain the crappy shifting but not the ping problem.

    Getting bad fuel economy as well. I did a same trip comparison with a route i took with my 2002 odyssey and found it to be 10 - 15% worse fuel economy on mostly highway. Shooting from the hip it seems that city driving is an even greater discrepancy. EPA ratings are waaaaaaay off.

    I owned a 1984 chrysler voyager (the first minivan) and as underpowered as it was (74hp and pulling a trailer) the thing ran and shifted a lot smoother at 10 years old than this brand new Honda does new. (although not nearly as pretty)

    I bought a 2008 Accord at the same time (yes i got sick of old cars breaking down and bit the bullet) and the thing is absolutely perfect. So this is definitely not a "Honda is Crap" session but more of a "Honda is having some trouble with their Odysseys - lets see if we can get them to fix it"
  • pingypingy Posts: 12
    Hi, I am in the same boat. Pinging, dealer cant hear it. I am in PA as well,
    you are not in West Chester are you? :confuse: :confuse:
  • lavrishevolavrishevo Posts: 312
    "Pinging, knocking and detonation are all terms for a condition known as "pre-ignition". That means some of the gas and air mixture is igniting in the cylinder before it's supposed to. And when that extra flame front crashes into the normal flame front (created by the spark plug), you hear a noise, and that noise is pinging.

    There are four major causes of pinging. The first three are related to excessive heat.

    The first is severe engine overheating. If the engine is running too hot for any reason, the temperature in the cylinders can simply be too high. In that case, some of the mixture can ignite before the spark plug fires just from the intense heat.

    The second major cause of pinging is carbon buildup inside the cylinders and on the pistons. When too much carbon collects, it can reduce the size of the cylinders (increasing the compression and temperature of the cylinder contents) and retain excessive heat itself.

    The third cause of pinging is a malfunctioning exhaust gas recirculation (EGR) system. The EGR is supposed to send non-combustible exhaust gas into the cylinders to lower the temperature of the mixture.

    How does 800-degree exhaust gas LOWER the temperature in the cylinders? Because it doesn't burn, and it crowds out some of the oxygen that would have burned and made an even hotter flame. And if that EGR is not working properly, the cylinder temperature can be too hot and the engine can ping.

    And finally, incorrect ignition timing can cause pinging. The ignition timing determines when the spark plugs fire. And if they're set to fire too early, the stuff will begin to burn too early.

    The use of higher-octane gas often makes the pinging stop because it has a higher ignition point. By requiring a higher temperature to make the gasoline burn, you reduce the likelihood of it "pre-igniting" somewhere else in the cylinder.

    But premium gas doesn't address the underlying problem. So start by checking the EGR system, the cooling system and the ignition timing. And if none of those things fix it, then you can consider using a higher-octane fuel. " - Jims Performance Automotive.
  • I am near West Chester. We purchased Odyssey from Scott. How about you?
  • pingypingy Posts: 12
    Yup, scott too.
    I actually called our service guy 3 times and left messages 3 different times, and... he never called me back. I then left an email with the service mgr. and he ignored me too.
    I finally gor the mgr on the phone, and I am waiting to find a time to get it back in.
    What ever happened with you? Have they recognized your problem? Did they offer any solution?
    We are so dissappointed!! we were sure the honda was the way to go. We really looked around too.......
  • I have not posted in a while as fighting with Honda through a lemon law attorney is draining. American Honda finally would like to inspect our 2007 Honda odyssey. The Ping is still pinging and I am still feeling cheated by Honda. If they do not rectify this problem I will never own another Honda again. This is outrageous. For Honda to feed my wife and I excuse after excuse. Telling us it was normal. Then admitting the engine is pinging. They used those exact words on paper. Come on Honda. Admit that our vans are faulty and buy them back. My van will be inspected by American Honda @ Honda World in Downey, Ca on the 16th of July. They should have a determination, hopefully, soon after that. I own a 2003 Honda Odyssey that runs better than my faulty 2007. That is one of the reasons we knew for a certainty our van was a lemon. When your brand new van's engine sounds worse than one you have 80,000 miles on, that is just BAD! Never again. As promised, I will continue the fight and post the disposition of my case.
  • We are in the same boat. Here is what they are telling us. (this is from Honda Corp) The engine is over sparking because the computer thinks it is running a higher octane gas then what is in it. We only run regular unleaded as specified by Honda and I refuse to put in a higher octane gas. They told us it was a programming issue and that Honda Corp was working on a solution. This has been going on for about 10 months now. We purchased the van last August and in September we heard the ping. Scott Honda has no interest in resolving the issue, we asked to drive another EX Odyssey to see if it made the same noise for but they wouldn't do it.
    I can tell you we have opened a Lemon Law case against this van. We just took it to Roberts Honda in Downingtown just for another pair of eyes on the problem. I am so jaded by this experience with Honda. We owned a Windstar before this van that had the transmission go with 65k miles on it. We new we didn't want to purchase an American Minivan because of quality issues. My wife has always liked the Odessey and it had a good reputation. I think we will try Toyota after this......
    One more thougth. We live in a neighborhood that a lot of people have Odessey's and we are now listening to them ping as they come around the corner. I am interested in hearing if they have had the same run around from Honda. Good Luck and I will keep you posted as to how we make out with the Lemon Law.
  • pooh875pooh875 Posts: 9
    I'M HAVING THE SAME PROBLEM MY LAWYER SENT AMERICAN HONDA A LETTER ASKING THEM TO BUY THE CAR BACK THEY REFUSE TO BUY THE CAR BACK SO MY LAWYER IS FILLING A LAW SUIT AGAINST AMERICAN HONDA.HOW LONG HAVE YOU BEEN GOING THROUGH YOUR CASE I WANT TO TRADE THE VAN IN BUT MY FRIEND SAY THAT IM LETTING HONDA WIN DO U THINK I SHOULD TRADE THE VAN IN. :lemon:
  • lavrishevolavrishevo Posts: 312
    If you have the money to fight it out and realistically think you will win the case then go for it. The less people that don't do anything about it the less likely Honda will make any effort to fix the problem. But, if it means mucho stress and agony just get rid of the van for what fits your needs. Yes by not doing anything about it Honda in a sense wins but it is pointless to make it too personal. You just one among hundreds of thousands and the reality of the situation is Honda cares most about their bottom line then their customers. A trend more and more companies are taking these days.
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