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Honda Odyssey Engine Ping, Detonation, Preingition issues

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  • Hi everybody!

    I am new to the forum. I have a 2007 Ody that had a strange noise from day one. I took it to the dealer and they wanted to change my transmission?! I didn't let them do that. I put that issue aside for a while, trying to find time to put the car on the dyno and try to diagnose the problem myself. It always seem to happen around 40-45 mph going up the hill. That noise sounded like a ping but It was very light. Maybe running on Shell Premium Fuel all the time had something to do with it.
    For some reason, I decided to use 87 octane (Mid Grade in high country states) and the noise increased in amplitude. More then that, it happens even when you let off the gas. Now it definitely feels like the engine is knocking.
    I got a hold of TSB08-071 that talks about the problem. If anyone is interested, I can send it over via e-mail. Please note that this is a an issue different than the one in TSB07-028 which is the one related to the noise made by the intermediate shaft heat shield.
    I would say that people that have the 07-028 problem vs the 08-071 problem should consider themselves lucky.
    Engine knock is a very severe malfunction. That can lead to engine damage.
    I will take my car to the dealer to have my knock sensor replaced. Odd enough, I spoke to the same guy that wanted to replace my transmission and he said knock shouldn't be to bad for the engine. I wish they hire people that know what they are talking about.
    Since the knock was minor to moderate maybe the engine is not in a bad shape. A bore scope can be used to visually inspect the combustion chamber, cylinder and piston surface. I will ask the dealership to do it. If they don't want to I will have to do it myself.
    I will let you know about the outcome of this service visit.
  • xinstxinst Posts: 9
    Hi dynoman,

    You are very wise to use a bore scope to inspect your engine. Unfortunately, I, and likely many folks on this forum, do not have access to such equipment. I, for one, am very eager to know how much damage engine ping has on Odysseys. Please share with us what you discover after the proceedure isdone.

    Many thanks in advance.

    Steven
  • HELLO EVERY ONE AFTER FIVE MONTHS OF FIGHTING WITH HONDA I HAVE A APPOINTMENT AT THE DEALER WITH MY LAWYER TO INSPECT MY 2007 ODYSSEY :lemon: ON OCT0BER 15 2008 I WILL UPDATE YOU GUYS I HOPE THEY WILL BUY THE CAR BACK BUT I THINK IF A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE HAVING THIS PROBLEM THEY WILL NOT BUY ALL THE CARS BACK HONDA ASK MY LAWYER IF WILL I SETTLE FOR A LARGE CASH SETTLEMENT AND THEY SAID I COULD KEEP THE VAN I TOLD THEM NO WAY :( :lemon:
  • Well everyone after fighting with HONDA for over a year, the state of California finally declared this van a lemon due to the pinging issue. Today the van was dropped off at my local dealearship and I collected my check. I am happy to say that we dont need to deal with this crap any longer. Some advice that helped me was to get your service manager to confirm the pinging and document it. That was the best evidence I had in my favor. Also make sure you give them 4-5 times to try and fix it. If it does not get fixed file a claim with the BBB. It worked for me. Some other posts stated that the BBB was sort of useless but it was pretty painless and they did help me out. I hope the rest of you all get your vans purchased back also.
  • Just back from service. Dealer replaced knock sensor on our '08 Ody under TSB 08-071. So far, so good! Running regular gas and it is no longer knocking. Was knocking really bad before replacement, especially with regular gas. Keeping my fingers crossed and will post again if knock comes back. Now we do have a very low VIN number on the Ody (mfg Oct '07), so it is possible we got one of the early '08 Odys that really did have damage to the sensor during production. We'll see how it goes...

    BTW - Congrats on your victory! Come back and let us know how your new ____ (Sienna?) works out.
  • Hi there, congrats on your resolved issue! Must be a big relief Im sure. Im still struggling with it just like many others out there. I have a 08 Ody with the same ping issue. Would it be possible for you to pls share with us what TSB # is needed to replace this part???

    Thanks much.
  • tk5tk5 Posts: 2
    naam4ever, here is the TSB:
    http://www.in.honda.com/Rjanisis/pubs/SB/A08-071.PDF

    I bought my new 08-EX three weeks ago and having the something. I drove it with the service tech and off-course he could not hear it and made me look like I’m crazy. Also my VIN number is newer than the VIN range under the TSB. Is your VIN within the range?

    I just put in it a full tank of premium gas and the knocking noise is almost %99 gone. That explains why when I test drove it I did not hear the noise because the dealer used premium fuel.

    So at this point I’m not sure if I should fight with them and let them mess with the new engine or that is just normal engine noise.
  • I'm heading to the dealership on Friday to have the knock sensor replaced on my 2007 Odyssey to correct (hopefully) excessive engine pinging.....I was wondering whether anyone else has had success (or a lack thereof) after having the knock sensor replaced. Thanks in advance.
  • pingypingy Posts: 12
    I had it replaced a while back, and to be honest, I dont know if it worked.
    it is colder than heck and I dont have the windows down when I am driving.
    When I first got it done, it seemed to quiet it down. I will find out in the spring I guess. Here is a GREAT way to test it though. I found this method by accident when out with the service manager, and the Honda NA rep. trying to get them to hear the noise, (that no one could hear except fom myself and my wife) there is an underpass right around the corner from the dealership where I bought the odyssey.
    I sat in the underpass with the windows open and had one foot on the gas and one on the brake, and kind of line locked it. (except it wasnt for fun) That made the ping loud and clear. It was at that point when they said, OH, I hear it now...
    If you can find an enclosed space like that and do that, (hit the gas and brake at the same time) It will come out.
    I will go back there when it gets warm, and I have time and see if it is still doing it.
    I suspect it will. We really wish we went with the Toyota.
  • Thanks for the reply. I'll post on here after it is done as to what, if anything, has changed. I do, however, hear the pinging whether the windows are up or down, so I should know very shortly after picking the van up whether it has been fixed.

    Thanks again.
  • I had the service bulletin performed on Friday of last week, replacing the knock sensor. I am happy to report that it completely took care of the problem and the van is now 100% better. Prior to the replacement, I heard a distinct knock or ping regardless of the octane rating of the fuel I used (obviously, the higher the octane the better it was). The pinging was much worse during the summer months with use of the air conditioner. I generally heard the knock while driving up hill or when starting out from a standstill, especially on an incline. After replacement, using 87 octane, I tried everything I could to get the engine to ping again, to no avail. To anyone else out there with this issue, I absolutely suggest getting the service bulletin done, as it really seems to work.
  • ed1973ed1973 Posts: 9
    hi i was wondering if you had an answer on the heavy fuel cosumption,even though my odyssey is a lot older i am also experiancing the same, i only have 40k on the clock now ,its been back to the dealer,(out of warranty)at my expense they say thier is definatley somthing thier,to me it is a mettallic tapping when cold but seems to ease away when the engine warms,(they said possibly cam slack) what is that? it is worse when cold and the engine is under normal running strain,but also my fuel consumption is also close to 14-18 mpg,heres hoping we both get answers,

    Thanks Ed
  • mtm12345mtm12345 Posts: 6
    hello ed
    i never got an answer from dealer on heavy fuel consumption. i now believe it is a problem with the area i live in, hills and city driving. i bought a new small car to get 27 mpg but found i could only get 21mpg at best. also another driver in my area driving a new minivan is only getting 13mpg as well. if i it like an electric car, very slow acceleration, i can get 15mpg.

    as far as your noise goes, i don't believe that sounds like the knock sensor many people are experiencing here. the knock that i had came only when the engine was very warm at 2500 rpm under strain. i had the earlier service bulletins performed and it went away, mine was not a knock sensor. the knock sensors are in later years and are limited to a range of vin numbers when the factory had a mis calibrated robot installing the sensor. if you have an 07 in those vin ranges they will replace your sensor.

    your issue, if it really is cam slack, could be a whole different story. depending on how willing you are to spend money on this issue you could have different options. i wonder if you have anything in your service record inquiring about this issue while the car was under warranty? even if you don't i would try to talk to the service managers at your local dealers and see if they will present your issue to the honda rep. in my experience i have gotten them to cover half the cost of a major paint flaw for a car i bought used that was long out of warranty.

    otherwise i see your options as: get it fixed yourself either at the dealer or independent shop, run it like it is and see what happens, or sell the vehicle. i would probably just run it like it is as i am guessing cam slack is a very major investigation cost, and replacement could be prohibitive. it might be cheaper if that were truly the case, to have an independent shop drop in a used engine from a totaled car. I am not sure how cam slack could effect the gas mileage. i am guessing if could go either way but would probably run roughly if it was effecting mileage. if the mileage was caused by undo friction of the shaft rubbing you could have early failure as it would wear it out.

    on the bright side this could just be something harmless, nothing to do with the cam at all. perhaps like mine it was just a loose knock in a random place in the engine that does no harm. and the mileage is just caused my stop and go traffic. i am amazed how heavy these vehicles are and how much energy it takes to get them moving. any hills, cold starts, braking and starting, just kills the mileage.

    hope this helps.
  • ed1973ed1973 Posts: 9
    Hi Mtm, Thanks for the reply,i have had my oddy at the dealer today, they have told me to try a valve adjustment, i have also read this on the internet,i agreed to this, it only cost £65.oo ,they had only just finished the test run after the adjustment when i got to the dealership,so the engine was still hot,on driving it home i did notice that it was a hell of a lot smoother,and i dont know if i was convincing myself but it did sound better,Honda told me my valve clearence was a bit tight ...(but yes it was still hot) i took it out for 5 minutes before and i can still hear a tapping but it sounds like a healthy oil covered tap rather than a mettallic rattle,so i am quite pleased at the moment,the dealer also advanced my throttle cable and it now has its original power back from takeoff,so it seems like a good result so far,the test will come in the morning when it is really cold, and damp at 6.00 am i still cannot comment on the fuel consumption as i have only done around 20 miles since i got it back, but yes the valve adjustment does seem to have made a real improvment, i will set the trip to zero once i have filled up tommorrow,this was the last chance for my oddy as i was about to trade it in,i am now going to give it a month and if things start getting noisy again & the fuel consumption doesnt improve ,then i will be getting rid of it, as for the history,and warranty they are non existent as i bought the car as an import,the only history i have is what i have done over the last 2 years,hence the lack off help from the local dealer,although i must say this time they where really helpfull,possibly because i never tried to ask if this was covered under somekind of honda warranty.i am also thinking that the heavy fuel usage is due to my stop n start go here go thier driving aswell,but as mentioned it does run alot smoother so i hope it does improve,,thanks again for the info supplied and happy motoring....best regards Ed
  • packerfan5packerfan5 Posts: 2
    I will get straight to my problem. I purchased a used 2007 Honda Odyssey with 85000 miles last December from a dealer that had excellent service records. I discovered this engine ping noise after owning it for less than 2 days. Same issue I've seen posted over and over. Some call it droning at 1200-1500 R.P.M. at about 42 miles per hour. The engine will begin pinging at times when the trans seems to be "locked in " while in overdrive. I ended up at the dealer the first time and they replaced the engine mounts - Didn't work!!! I Took it back again and they performed the bulletin on the knock sensor - Didn't work!!! The next trip to the dealer resulted in the replacement of the power steering pump and their inability to find source of ping, although, the technician at least admitted to the noise existing. Finally, I found another post in a different section that referred to a condition called torque shudder. Because my van was in the shop for the 5th time because I didn't want it back until they solved this, I called my service manager and told him about this post. He talked with his technician and agreed that a new transmission was in order!!! Well guess what --- This seems to finally have fixed the problem!!!! The van downshifts smoothly like a dream, it does not drone at 1200 R.P.M.s anymore, and the ping is GONE. I highly suspected a torque converter problem from the beginning but Honda was not admitting to anything. I am very thankful I purchased a 3 year warranty from my credit union for only a $1000.00 because Hondas are so dependable. The total repairs were over $5700.00. The transmission was $4000.00 of it!!! If it was not for these forums I don't think Honda would have my van fixed yet, and who knows how much more it would have cost.
  • Hello,
    My honda odyssey seems to have a very simular problem.
    They, so far, raplaced: some heat shield, tork converter, rear engine mount and knock sensor, but ... I still have the same pinging noise.
    Mostly heard on accelaration while going up hill and cruising.
    It sounds to me like a valve noise, but ... their first guess was tork converter.

    Now, after they replaced 4 parts already dealer is saying that noise is ... not that bad ... .

    Can you give me any tips on how to deal with this Honda Dealer and Honda.
    I think I too need a new transmission.
    My odyssey has 36,000 miles.

    Sincerely
    Marek
  • The way my service manager responded to me was by me showing him some of these posts and then him sharing them with the service tech.. I believe they were truly puzzled by this and obviously steer away from the transmission. Honda Inc. never got involved with my case due to the fact I had a service warranty that was very good about putting up with all the parts changes. Ask him to expain to you why they do not believe the noise is caused by torque shudder. I can only say again that the transmission repair has fixed my problem. It has been about a month now and am starting to feel a bit of confidence that my problem with this is over. Hope this helps. - Brian
  • uns69uns69 Posts: 2
    I have an 06 exl with 45k miles. I recently noticed what sounded like knocking and pinging and hit the internet to see if others had the same issue. I was surprised to find that so many have this problem and some haven't found a solution. I brought my car in to Honda armed with the info from this forum and odyclub.com. The Honda dealer replaced the knock sensor and it was no surprise that the problem was still there. I brought the car back with a copy of TSB 07-028 (exhaust heatshield). They called me back and said that this heatshield was ok. However they found that the Cat. converter heatshield was not sitting correctly and they adjusted it and "it should be ok now". I figured they couldn't find the problem and just wanted to get the car out of the shop.
    I am happy to say that the car is 100% fixed.
    So anyone that still has this problem might want to have the dealer check this out.
    My symptoms were: What sounded like preignition at 2200- 2500rpms under moderate or heavy acceleration. It got louder over time. If you listen to the sound clip on the TSB for the heatshield, it sounded exactly the same. The noise happend after the car was warmed up and usually right before each shift.
    I hope this helps someone here.
  • ed1973ed1973 Posts: 9
    Hi i had my 95 ody back to the dealer for a valve adjustment,,this made some improvement,i also filled it with a higher octance unleaded fuel and gave it an oil change ,the noise is still thier but it is about 75% better,it turned out my valve clearances where really tight,i would suggest trying the above as they wont leave you out of pocket to much,,obviously my ody is a lot older but this seems to have done the trick.although if you are under warranty make them do everything possible,including tranny if you are not entirely happy.but definatly get the valves checked,,it makes a big difference. hope this helps.

    Thanks Ed
  • cgallerycgallery Posts: 2
    Purchased an '09 about three weeks ago. Have noticed a slight pinging noise. Using Shell 87 (regular unleaded). Has anyone else experienced the problem on '09 Odysseys? Is it possible that some of the knock sensors are just badly manufactured? I was thinking of taking it to the dealer and having them replace the knock sensor just to see if it would help.
  • darthkendarthken Posts: 28
    Hi all, just wanted to report on my experience. Bought an 08 Odyssey in spring 2008, almost from the start it made a faint pinging sound on acceleration, sometimes louder. Finally had the knock sensor replaced about 3 weeks ago and it seems to have fixed the problem (for good I hope!).
  • Leased an 09' in august. i hear the pinging noise upon acceleration also. It sounds like the old days when you put cheap or bad gas in your car. Very disturbing to have this problem when im paying a monthly fee on a new car.
  • My 2007 Odyssey :lemon: only has 27,000 miles(taken good care of)and had everything done so far and Honda dealership has car now(third going on 4th time @ dealer). Dealer could not fix, so they call Honda Tech line in CA, here is tech line recommendation to Honda dealer:
    1. Valve adjustment
    2. Software Update
    3. Top end engine cleaning
    4. Use 93 Octane(to see if removes pinging)
    My Local Dealer here is in the south east.
    I will pick up car when they have put it back together and ride around with service manager and service tech in car(service tech still hears noise/pinging or knocking).

    I am upset because a New car should never have a pinging sound. I have tried almost every reputable gas station in my area, but I know that all the gasoline tankers get their gas from the same place all they do is add a different additive or solution before they refill a gas station underground tanks. Also, here in South East I don't think my state has strict policy on Lemon laws. Anybody with answers please respond so I and others can get help to fix problem.
  • pcullenpcullen Posts: 11
    Your list doesn't include the knock sensor replacement, which I believe is the problem in your case. Most if not all '07 and some '08 and I suppose '09s have damaged knock sensors due to a faulty automated installation. In other words, a robot arm is damaging the sensor when it screws it in. Search in this thread for the knock sensor fix. As a side note, I do run 93 Octane because with a 10.0 to 1 compression ratio, i don't want the knock sensor to work to hard and i want the engine to run at its design optimum.
  • pcullenpcullen Posts: 11
    Look this one up: TSB 08-071
  • gijoe6gijoe6 Posts: 2
    #116 of 117 Re: Alleged Dealer/Honda TEchline/Service Manager fix?? 07 Odyssey [nasir1997] by pcullen

    i read your response to a faulty automated installation of knocking sensor. How do you know this? my 09' odessy is haviing the pinging noise and if this is the solution i will bring in to have it changed. please respond., thankyou
    gijoe6
  • pcullenpcullen Posts: 11
    My dealer told me this. Here's my message from Sep 22, 2008: "Hi, I just got my van back from the dealer as they did TSB 08-071. My service adviser said that it is the same part number as the old one, in my case P/N 30530-P8F-A01 for an '07. But he said that the knock sensor is attached to the engine via a machine during engine assembly, instead of by hand and apparently the machine wasn't calibrated right or something like that and so incorrectly inserted the sensors. "

    Search this on Odyclub.com. You'll find more info. But definitely persist with TSB 08-071. It wasn't until I showed them the printout that they did the fix and this was after several attempts to get them to fix it. Apparently a lot of dealers had no idea about this and some of them still may not know.
  • Sorry everyone I have had all service bulletins for 2007 odyssey performed when i initially had the problem 5 months ago. I saw the service bulletins on another forum and went to dealer and they were performed.
  • ody4ody4 Posts: 1
    I have the same problems with the torque converter and here is what i found on the service bulletins god know what else is broke. Did you show all these bulletins and asked them to do them? My dealer is kind of dragging on the torque converter

    http://www.odyclub.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=46072&highlight=2008+ts- b
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