Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!





Mazdaspeed 3 or Mini Cooper S

2

Comments

  • autonomousautonomous Posts: 1,769
    I love the styling of the Crossfire ... the coupe is a beauty. It looks like nothing else on the road, and I also like to have cars that are a little less common.

    I could not agree more. For me, it hearkens back to some Vettes of long ago.
  • roadburnerroadburner Posts: 6,283
    My local Chrysler dealer had a leftover SRT version. I could have grabbed it for around $26K, but I needed a four seater... :(

    2009 328i / 2004 X3 2.5/ 1995 318ti Club Sport/ 1975 2002A/ 2007 Mazdaspeed 3/ 1999 Wrangler/ 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica

  • smogdungsmogdung Posts: 349
    My only gripe with the SRTs is that they are all automatic transmissions.....I just had to have a 6 spd stick. Like I said before, I'd love to have both the Crossfire and the MS3.......maybe a Cayman S too? This is some kind of illness I think......?
  • roadburnerroadburner Posts: 6,283
    This is some kind of illness I think......?

    Join the club; I took my wife's X3 to the dealer for an ATF change and they had a stunning 2004 CPO M3 parked in front of the showroom. Must... resist... ;)

    2009 328i / 2004 X3 2.5/ 1995 318ti Club Sport/ 1975 2002A/ 2007 Mazdaspeed 3/ 1999 Wrangler/ 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica

  • smogdungsmogdung Posts: 349
    You want to see some real horror stories....go over to the Audi TT forums.....timing belts not chains.......engine replacements galore! People paid >$40K.....50K miles...boom!
  • I think for the performance oriented but value minded shopper, these two cars present a very difficult choice. I owned an 04' Mazdaspeed Protege for two years and gained a great deal of respect for Mazda's tuning division. The really know how to "screw" a car together and offer BMW 3-series-like steering and braking feel for comparatively little money. My biggest gripe was the lack of support for Mazdaspeed models by the majority of Mazda dealerships. While in CA, finding local dealer support was easy. However, upon relocating to PA, I was commuting 1.15 hrs to the nearest Mazdaspeed trained/approved dealer. This grew old quickly and was a major reason for buying an 07' Cooper S - as much to my suprise I had two MINI dealers within 15-25 miles from my home. Your local dealer support and network will undoubtedly enter into your buying equation, too. Driving the Cooper S provides daily grins, personally, and from the general public - something which never occured with my old Mazdaspeed except for the "in the know" crowd. I average 30 mpg in mixed driving - an unexpected benefit which is becoming more and more important given rising fuel prices. The Cooper S does give up some backseat passenger and storage space to the Mazdaspeed3, but I still find it provides enough space for my needs (which include wife, 6 yrs kid, & dog). As for buying advice, the ability to build to order your Cooper is amazing - and recommended. Choosing only the options you want goes a long way to avoiding the dreaded price creeping which is, unfortunately, part of the BMW/MINI sales model. Lastly, if your daily driving includes a lengthy commute, forego the sunroof and 17' wheel package...it pays huges dividends in keeping things quiet at high speeds. Cheerio!
  • roadburnerroadburner Posts: 6,283
    forego the sunroof

    Thats another reason I liked the MCS and MS3...
    NO SUNROOF!!! :D
    In two years I'll bet we've opened the one on my wife's X3 no more than 10-12 times. And as my friend and racer TC Kline puts it, a sunroof provides the same effect as strapping a car battery to your roof- it adds more weight in the worst place possible.

    2009 328i / 2004 X3 2.5/ 1995 318ti Club Sport/ 1975 2002A/ 2007 Mazdaspeed 3/ 1999 Wrangler/ 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica

  • This forum is perfect. I am looking for a new car right now and I'm literally stuck on a MINI or a M3S.

    I haven't test driven either, but I have been researching them. I'm looking for a fun, sporty, and "different" kind of car, but I'm also going to be trading in an SUV (Ford Escape) so I'm already concerned about the size difference.

    Both cars appear to be in my price range and both look like fun to drive. I still can't decide though. So far this forum hasn't either =/ I know the test drive is the most important, but what else should I look for/be aware of?

    Note: this will be my first "new car".
  • smogdungsmogdung Posts: 349
    Drive them both, listen to both, price them both.....then go get a Mercedes Benz Crossfire for less! ($15K off sticker -Lifetime Warranty!).
  • The Crossfire guy sounds more like he's trying to convince himself than anyone else. No German car (BMW included) scores high on long term reliabilty in any publication. The marketing ploy of a "Lifetime Warrenty" by Chrysler is a desperate act of a company in serious trouble.

    Now some maybe reading into this, "This guy hates Chrysler."

    Nope. Dad owned a Polara, LeBaron, and a Cordoba. Mom and Uncle both owned a Dart. Same Uncle rebuilt a 1980 Aspen, and also owned a Valiant. Grandfather owned a Newport. Grandmother a Dart.Another uncle a Charger and a Challenger.

    Getting the idea?

    The Speed 3 killed at Nurburg. It's reliability is shown through data to be outstanding. The torque-steer is electronically quashed. Game, set, match.

    If you want to LEASE a Mercedes, BMW, Audi, Porsche, Volkswagen, be my guest. They are sporty and well-mannered...for about 20,000 miles, so purchasing them should be something left to rental car companies.
  • roadburnerroadburner Posts: 6,283
    The Crossfire guy sounds more like he's trying to convince himself than anyone else. No German car (BMW included) scores high on long term reliabilty in any publication. The marketing ploy of a "Lifetime Warrenty" by Chrysler is a desperate act of a company in serious trouble.

    Sounds like someone is a bit envious... :P

    If you want to LEASE a Mercedes, BMW, Audi, Porsche, Volkswagen, be my guest. They are sporty and well-mannered...for about 20,000 miles, so purchasing them should be something left to rental car companies.

    Wow, thanks for the heads up! Hmmm... I currently own a Mazdaspeed3 as well as two BMWs- a 1995 3 Series that I bought new as well as a 2004 CPO X3 I picked up in 2005. The maintenance and repair costs for my 3 Series have averaged less than $45/month over the life of the car. And that figure includes ALL maintenance and repair expenses as well as three sets of 16" Z-rated rubber. I've replaced one set of pads/rotors, the serpentine belts and idlers, the timing chain tensioner(DIY $55 and 10 minutes), a brake light switch and a thermostat. That's it. Did I mention that it also sees several track days per year? As for the X3, the sole defect has been a SRS sensor replaced under warranty. At 56K it looks and runs like new- and I've spent a grand total of $23/month on maintenance over the two years I've owned the car. You see, I've found that the majority of people who chant the "BMWs are gosh-awful expensive to fix" mantra usually aren't owners. In most cases they have no personal experience with owning or maintaining a BMW. They're just relying on second, third, or fourth-hand information- "My cousin's dentist had a patient who knew a friend that talked to some guy at a party, and the guy told him that he overheard somebody at Walmart say that they read somewhere on the internet that it cost $1500 to change the oil in a BMW."

    2009 328i / 2004 X3 2.5/ 1995 318ti Club Sport/ 1975 2002A/ 2007 Mazdaspeed 3/ 1999 Wrangler/ 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica

  • Not even a little envious.

    Isn't interesting as you listed the numerous repairs to your vehicles (supporting my argument), along with the pasting of my argument, you forgot to paste pretty crucial thing.

    "No German car (BMW included) scores high on long term reliabilty in any publication."

    You will never find me or any friend of mine (Acura and Infiniti owners) talk about our personal experiences with BMW. Why? Because we were smart enough to do our homework first. I honestly don't care about the cost of oil changes or other repairs. Makes no difference to me. My issue is frequency. How can I enjoy my 3 series or my Passat, or my SLK, when it's spending more time at the shop than it is with me?

    I'm sorry you felt the need to buy for status sake. I honestly hope you get over it. Maybe the Speed 3 will put you over that hump. If you have, or know someone that has had good luck with them, great. You just won the lottery. You're driving around in the exception to the rule, but it is a rule and the data supports it.

    Argue with me all you want, but arguing with data is a waste.
  • roadburnerroadburner Posts: 6,283
    Wow! So much incisive commentary to address. I'll have to give it my best shot...

    Isn't interesting(sic) as you listed the numerous repairs to your vehicles (supporting my argument), along with the pasting of my argument, you forgot to paste pretty(sic) crucial(sic) thing.

    "No German car (BMW included) scores high on long term reliabilty in any publication."


    I didn't mention it because it's simply false.

    You will never find me or any friend of mine (Acura and Infiniti owners) talk about our personal experiences with BMW.

    Ah yes, reverse fanboy snobbery. Your lack of experience invalidates any of your statements about BMWs.

    Because we were smart enough to do our homework first.

    Let me guess- today in 7th grade study hall?

    I honestly don't care about the cost of oil changes or other repairs. Makes no difference to me. My issue is frequency. How can I enjoy my 3 series or my Passat, or my SLK, when it's spending more time at the shop than it is with me?

    Well, my BMWs get serviced every 7500 miles. My Mazda sees the shop every 5000, primarily because the 2.3 DISI turbo motor pretty much wears out the oil in less than 6000 miles- based on UOAs performed by myself and others. That's not a knock on the MS3, just a fact.

    I'm sorry you felt the need to buy for status sake. I honestly hope you get over it.

    This from someone who prefers Acuras and Infinitis over Hondas and Nissans. Oh, wait- they ARE Hondas and Nissans. And I doubt I'll "get over it" any time soon; see, I've owned eight Bimmers going back to 1983. And I've driven them in HPDEs at venues such as Memphis Motorsport Park, Motorsport Ranch, Mid Ohio, NHIS, Putnam Park, and Sears Point. I also have a few autocross trophies as well.

    You're driving around in the exception to the rule, but it is a rule and the data supports it.

    Look, I don't know if you are eight or eighteen, but you've admitted that you don't have any experience with BMWs whatsoever, so it's pointless to argue with you- particularly in this topic. Why don't you post some of you irrefutable arguments over in one of the sports sedan comparison topics? In the meantime, enjoy your rebadged Honda or Nissan(assuming you actually own one).

    2009 328i / 2004 X3 2.5/ 1995 318ti Club Sport/ 1975 2002A/ 2007 Mazdaspeed 3/ 1999 Wrangler/ 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica

  • Wow someone is getting rather personal. I regret you felt the need to go there.

    While I likely don't have the snow on the roof that you do, you can pull the thermometer out, and it would reveal that I still have more degrees than you do.

    You have again supported my argument. Eight "Bimmers" since 1983? Was that with or without Cappuccino? I've owned a total of three cars since 1996, and the number is that high because one of them was totaled in an accident in 1999. The remaining two were/are Mazdas (I never said I owned and Acura or an Infiniti...check the reference and fight illiteracy, I was referring to my friends). That said, I would be proud to own a TL S-Type. It's a better use of power and superior handling when compared to any Accord.

    Nothing false about the data. Check C&D, check CR, check Motor Trend, check...oh yeah, EDMUNDS. They'll all say the same thing, outstanding engineering, great driving experience, thoughtful interiors, but no longevity.

    For a good laugh, I would pay any reputable automobile correspondent to say out loud, "German cars are more reliable in the long term than Japanese cars." without so much as cracking a smile. It would be tantamount to some dry Bob Newhart humor.
  • roadburnerroadburner Posts: 6,283
    Someone is getting rather personal with all this. Sorry you felt the need to go there.

    Translation: :cry: :cry: :cry:

    You've again supported my argument. You've owned eight "Bimmers" since 1983.

    That's because I wanted to- not because I had to. Variety is the spice of life...

    Nothing false about my data.

    Really? Lets see...

    Check CR

    OK, it seems that they currently recommend the Three, Five, and Seven. And I think they added the X3 this year as well. That said, I get nervous when the safety weenies at CR like the same cars I do. When they recently endorsed the MS3 I was almost tempted to sell it... :P

    check Car and Driver

    Refresh my memory, just how many times has a BMW been on the CD "10 Best List"? Since 1992 I think. Now, let's see if you can point me to a negative CD long term test of a BMW.

    check Motor Trend

    You're joking, right?

    oh yeah, EDMUNDS

    Fair enough; here are some of their Long Term Test comments:

    1999 BMW 328i: "If you can find a way to embrace or excuse the cultural implications of the propeller badge -- and if you can find any way at all to fit a 3 Series car into your budget -- we highly recommend it. Go easy on the options -- this car is best when driven."

    2002 745Li: "After two years of driving this incredible car, we enthusiastically endorse it — the car that is, not the iDrive system. BMW has improved on the previous car's already excellent handling, while crafting a larger interior that oozes comfort and grace. We will admit that the iDrive feature becomes more user-friendly with time, but it has, for the most part, been unreliable and frustrating.
    We are tempted to put a caveat on our endorsement of the car as a whole simply because of the early glitches in our iDrive module. We required two module replacements and two "resets" in the first seven months — that is unacceptable in a $75,000 car. The stability we've enjoyed in the iDrive system in our last months of ownership has somewhat restored our confidence in BMW's engineers."
    They did ding Munich on the iDrive- and rightfully so. But they still recommend the car. Hmmm...

    2002 330i: "Our ownership experience was genuinely pleasant. We took in the car once for maintenance and for minor detailing prior to reselling it. While our 330i's clean bill of health does not vouch for a problem-free future, the car certainly met our expectations in terms of quality and dependability during its first two years."

    2005 X3: "Unfortunately, one summer day, our X3 was the innocent victim in a rear-end collision. The BMW was hauled away by flatbed and spent three weeks at the body shop while the mechanical and body repairs were made. The total repair bill for that single accident was a whopping $7,901.52.
    If we were forced to note one serious complaint about our 18,000 miles in the X3, it would likely be the time it was tied up in the body shop. While the stiff city ride that comes with the sport package was not always appreciated, we do value the handling and the highway manners of the X3. With its manageable size, sporty nature and new DVD system, the X3 was one of the most popular vehicles in our test garage."

    2001 530i: "With its odometer pushing 75,000 miles, it was hard not to be impressed with our 530i. There are new cars that don't feel as solid on the road, and anyone who saw it wouldn't have guessed it was a five-year-old car well on its way to 100,000 miles. The materials inside still looked good, and there was rarely a feature that we wished it had. If we judged it on nothing more than how it felt at speed on the highway or while cutting through a winding road, we would have nothing to complain about.
    The purpose of a long-term test, however, is to look a little deeper, and in this case we didn't have to look far to see the downside to owning this BMW. We liked the 530i when it worked, but far too often it was plagued by nagging problems that required constant attention from the dealer. None of the problems left us stranded on the roadside, but sitting at the dealer isn't much better."
    Now, the cooling system on the E39s CAN be a problem I'll admit, but Edmund's dealer hosed them but good. My local dealer or my indie shop would have fixed the problems for up to 75% less. I still wish I had kept my wife's E39 for my work beater instead of my Jeep TJ, but at the time I needed to keep a domestic vehicle in the garage for job-related reasons.

    2006 330i: "With the exception of $1.39 for a gallon of wiper fluid and the $334.19 replacement of a damaged tire, BMW's four-year/50,000-mile maintenance warranty covered all costs on the upkeep of our 3 Series. A radio static issue requiring the rear window to be replaced also fell under warranty.
    BMW raised the bar again with the 330i. We welcomed it into our fleet with open arms and it left its mark on us. Its departure took with it several editors desperate for one more chance to drive while the rest lay in tears. It will be missed."

    Wow, you nailed it; Edmunds DOES hate BMWs...

    Look, you like Mazdas, and you appear to value reliability above all else. I like BMWs. Lots of them(not to mention MS3s, Speed Triples, and 993s). And I'll suffer the odd glitch or two in exchange for an involving RWD driving experience on the street as well as the track. The thing is, I don't feel compelled to slam your choices in order to justify my decisions. But hey, if it helps you to feel better about what you drive, keep telling yourself that BMWs are all about hype and status. I just know that I don't lie awake at night wondering if I should have bought something else.

    2009 328i / 2004 X3 2.5/ 1995 318ti Club Sport/ 1975 2002A/ 2007 Mazdaspeed 3/ 1999 Wrangler/ 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica

  • 1999 BMW 328i: "If you can find a way to embrace or excuse the cultural implications of the propeller badge -- and if you can find any way at all to fit a 3 Series car into your budget -- we highly recommend it. Go easy on the options -- this car is best when driven."

    - No mention of reliability

    2002 745Li: "After two years of driving this incredible car, we enthusiastically endorse it — the car that is, not the iDrive system. BMW has improved on the previous car's already excellent handling, while crafting a larger interior that oozes comfort and grace. We will admit that the iDrive feature becomes more user-friendly with time, but it has, for the most part, been unreliable and frustrating.
    We are tempted to put a caveat on our endorsement of the car as a whole simply because of the early glitches in our iDrive module. We required two module replacements and two "resets" in the first seven months — that is unacceptable in a $75,000 car. The stability we've enjoyed in the iDrive system in our last months of ownership has somewhat restored our confidence in BMW's engineers."
    They did ding Munich on the iDrive- and rightfully so. But they still recommend the car. Hmmm...

    The only mention of reliability is negative

    2002 330i: "Our ownership experience was genuinely pleasant. We took in the car once for maintenance and for minor detailing prior to reselling it. While our 330i's clean bill of health does not vouch for a problem-free future, the car certainly met our expectations in terms of quality and dependability during its first two years."

    The bold portions speak for themselves. They had to enter those caveats because they know about the BMW reputation for long-term reliability.

    2005 X3: "Unfortunately, one summer day, our X3 was the innocent victim in a rear-end collision. The BMW was hauled away by flatbed and spent three weeks at the body shop while the mechanical and body repairs were made. The total repair bill for that single accident was a whopping $7,901.52.
    If we were forced to note one serious complaint about our 18,000 miles in the X3, it would likely be the time it was tied up in the body shop.* While the stiff city ride that comes with the sport package was not always appreciated, we do value the handling and the highway manners of the X3. With its manageable size, sporty nature and new DVD system, the X3 was one of the most popular vehicles in our test garage."

    * - A point I made about two posts ago.

    2001 530i: "With its odometer pushing 75,000 miles, it was hard not to be impressed with our 530i. There are new cars that don't feel as solid on the road, and anyone who saw it wouldn't have guessed it was a five-year-old car well on its way to 100,000 miles. The materials inside still looked good, and there was rarely a feature that we wished it had. If we judged it on nothing more than how it felt at speed on the highway or while cutting through a winding road, we would have nothing to complain about.
    The purpose of a long-term test, however, is to look a little deeper, and in this case we didn't have to look far to see the downside to owning this BMW. We liked the 530i when it worked, but far too often it was plagued by nagging problems that required constant attention from the dealer. None of the problems left us stranded on the roadside, but sitting at the dealer isn't much better."

    Again supporting my point from two posts ago.

    2006 330i: "With the exception of $1.39 for a gallon of wiper fluid and the $334.19 replacement of a damaged tire, BMW's four-year/50,000-mile maintenance warranty covered all costs on the upkeep of our 3 Series. A radio static issue requiring the rear window to be replaced also fell under warranty.
    BMW raised the bar again with the 330i. We welcomed it into our fleet with open arms and it left its mark on us. Its departure took with it several editors desperate for one more chance to drive while the rest lay in tears. It will be missed."

    Another lottery winner, but still riddled with admittedly minor issues.

    I never said Edmunds hated anyone. I said they would never claim BMW is a reliable ride, and guess what, you showed I was right. You've supported my contention three times. It's the third strike.

    Stop now, we're all begging you. We all know it is a superior driving experience...in the short-term. I maintain and have proven (with your help) that BMW (among other German makers) are unreliable vehicles.
  • roadburnerroadburner Posts: 6,283
    Stop now, we're all begging you. We all know it is a superior driving experience...in the short-term. I maintain and have proven (with your help) that BMW (among other German makers) are unreliable vehicles.

    Who's all? You are the one trolling with a grand total of five -count'em- FIVE posts. The other members here will easily determine who actually knows what they are talking about. But as I said before, if running down Bimmers makes you feel better about yourself as well as the transportation appliances you own and operate(I sincerely doubt that drive is the appropriate term) be my guest. But unlike you, instead of secretly coveting a BMW(or MS3, for that matter), I'll be driving one. Anyway, it's high time that I took Dilbert's famous advice- and place you on my "Ignore" list...

    2009 328i / 2004 X3 2.5/ 1995 318ti Club Sport/ 1975 2002A/ 2007 Mazdaspeed 3/ 1999 Wrangler/ 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica

  • Oh no!!!!!
    Not ignore!!!!
    The tell tale sign of a lost argument.

    As far as driving is concerned, I'd remove the cruise control from my 3 if I could.

    Congratulations on counting my posts, likely the same as the IQ count on your part.

    I've never "run down 'Bimmers'" (such a cute name). I simply said, "Lease, but don't buy." Which considering your car count, you've more or less done. You supported my argument through documentation. Chalk it up and move on, you're through.
  • FWIW. I work with a guy who found his dream car at a reasonable price. It was a used 2001 Z3M. He also thought he was buying a warranty at the same time. Turns out there was no extended warranty. There were a few minor problems with the car. The cost to repair said minor problems was about 1700 bucks. He had the work done. Six months later he was looking at another 500 or so to repair something else. He ended up selling the car. His quote was something along the lines of 'I could afford to buy it, just not own it.'
  • It's worth gold Network. The other guy will choose to ignore it because he enjoys his perceived status, but facts are facts.

    Thanks for your input.
2
This discussion has been closed.