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BMW 335i vs Infiniti G37

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Comments

  • sjaievesjaieve Posts: 252
    Impressive post. My list of 6 was used as well here and we agree for the most part. That list was meant to highlight that its not just HP that drives the purchase of a G37 but I am happy that you saw what I see:)

    On handling, I try not to say much about what I think, it can be perceived as "make believe" however allow me to post something from C/D

    "This is a serious machine: planted, professional, poised. The steering always knows how to find straight-ahead, and the effort builds progressively as you turn. Unlike most of the others, the brakes are not overboosted. They have a linear feel, just right for holding the edge of the friction circle as you trail-brake into curves."

    http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/comparisons/09q2/2009_infiniti_g37_vs._bmw_3- - - 28i_audi_a4_and_acura_tl-comparison_tests/2009_infiniti_g37_sport_page_4

    And here at Edmunds
    "But driven with a purpose, the Infiniti is the most capable car in this test when it comes to handling."
    http://www.insideline.com/infiniti/g35/2007/comparison-test-2007-2008-sport-seda- - ns.html

    I am not too bothered in where the G landed in these tests its not important. However if the point is handling this is one of the G's strong points. Every article you will read will tell you that. Which is why I was suprised when you used the words "disconnected" to describe how the car drives.

    Like you said, its more how one feels when driving thats important, if you felt a certain way then thats important. The G however cannot handle the same as the 335i as there are made differently, its handles in its own way but I believe it handles "great" and I agree the 335 handles better.
  • sjaievesjaieve Posts: 252
    Well here I agree, there is more to a car other than HP, which is why I went with the G35 and will be going to the G37 soon. Currently the 328i's are priced lower than the 2010 G sedans after incentives.

    Something I do not understand here, why is the G37 better value than the 328i? You indicated earlier that there is more to a car than just horses (so lets take horses out of the equation completely), the 3 series has a more refined engine and does not have the bright lights of the G. It would appear from your line of thought the 328i is the better value, No?

    HP helps with residual values though if considering cars in the same class.

    Not trying to offend anyone, just giving this discussion a different twist
  • millwood0millwood0 Posts: 451
    "However if the point is handling this is one of the G's strong points. Every article you will read will tell you that. Which is why I was suprised when you used the words "disconnected" to describe how the car drives. "

    the bmw 330 I had handled better than my g37x: the bmw is more communicative, more civilized and more confidence inspiring. the g is rougher, firmer and harshier for the sake of being firmer and harsher. the steering is very (overly in my view) boosted vs. the bmw.

    the bmw represented a better compromise between comfort and handling.
  • millwood0millwood0 Posts: 451
    " It would appear from your line of thought the 328i is the better value, No? "

    a base 328 is cheaper than a g (not by much though). a comparably equip'd 328 would be as expensive as, if not more expensive than, the g.

    so to me, the g is a better value.

    However, it is highly likely a comparably equip'd 328 is cheaper to lease than a g. :)
  • sjaievesjaieve Posts: 252
    Wait a minute, you have the X, now that makes sense. The G in X form is not like the S4 AWD system. The handling will be slightly compromised but will still be better than most cars in this segment, serve for the non X 3 series probably. The G37S, thats the car which handles probably at par with the 3 series as my post from Edmunds indicates and most articles you read out there will state the same.

    I know you also spoke of the car not driving well in the city which to me is a suprise as I find the car just does everything I would expect in the city or on the h/way. To put things into perspective, I had an IS250 which I got rid of less than 2 years into owning it for the G35. I can confidently say the G rides better than the IS250, less road noise too (the IS engine is quiter though). I know the IS250 is no 3 series but the point is the G's ride is not harsh or rough.

    The only thing I would like to add to anyone choosing between the 3 & the G is be careful when you start seeing the use of words such as:

    Rough, loud, disconnected, not as pleasant to drive etc. There are myths out there that can easily be disregarded once you start researching and taking these cars out for a test drive. You have to remember you are comparing a +100 year sports car heritage with a 20 year heritage, you have probably been bombarded with so many myths it will take some time to identify the truth. However cross shopping these 2 shows how far Nissan has come and I have to say for +40k I deserve better than to return a car @ less than 30k miles.

    A measure of handling and confidence of taking curves is the slalom test. Here at Edmunds in Coupe form, the G achieved the better speed compared to the 335i, in sedan form the 335i was better I believe but it was very very close. Check out the lateral grip numbers too.

    On the free maintenance issue, I have incurred just under 2k in maintenance expenses (all routine no reliability issues here) after just over 50k miles in about 2 years. This is just a weekend car and over 50% of those miles are just me having fun. Now my G is fully loaded, around 43k MSRP. A comparably equipped 335i would be just over 50k, so you tell me if the free maintenance is of any significance here. In base form the 335i is 40 & the G37 is 33k
  • sjaievesjaieve Posts: 252
    Its interesting that there is one 328i owner here who clearly wants out and is looking for alternatives, the IS250 being one of them. LOL, IS250 man good luck with that:)

    The point here is contrast the ownership experience with mine. I am set, G37 is the next move, the only car that may change my mind is the 2010 S4. I love both but then the issue of reliability comes in, the jury is still out on the S4. I spend time on an S4 forum where someone said Audi showed BMW that if you are going to make a +50k (with added options) sport sedan, here is how you do it. I think we will all agree on that.
  • millwood0millwood0 Posts: 451
    for the 3-series vs. g talk, i was making comparison between a 330i (rwd) vs. a g37x.

    the g's handling is far less civilized - crude would be what I would describe it: rough over the smallest bump; and sudden shift when pushed to the limit. the g performs comparable vs. the 3-series at highway speed or over a large diameter turn (highway on or off ramp).

    for small bumps the 3-series provides more cushioning so when driving around town, it is easier in a 3-series. but it doesn't lose anything to the g during sharp turns or at high speed.

    the g's steering wheel is also highly boosted, aka camry like.

    the 3-series' steering feedback reminds me of mr2: it gets progressively lighter as the vehicle was about to lose control. that "band" is considerably smaller in a g.

    I am not a suspension specialist but to a layman, the g coupled a harsher / firmer spring with a linear dampening shock. the 3-series has a softer spring but progressively higher dampening shock.

    if that makes sense.

    Again, I loved the 330 when it worked. the problem is the problems I had with it, and the high cost to keep it running. so I swore I would never own another german again but the dealership gave me a good deal on the X3 so I took it.
  • millwood0millwood0 Posts: 451
    one thing that really surprised me when i moved to the infiniti land is that 1) infiniti doesn't use synthetic oil and 2) the oil changes aren't free.

    how do they expect to compete in this segment?
  • millwood0millwood0 Posts: 451
    the 330 I had was a 2004. the chassis is good but the next gen's chassis is absolutely fabulous: it is solid as a rock.

    I think the best deal is the 328 (with the 3.0 engine): it is cheaper than my 330 but has a better chassis.
  • srs_49srs_49 Posts: 1,394
    the steering is very (overly in my view) boosted vs. the bmw.

    That's one of things I've notice with my '09 G37S. There appears to be more power assist at road speeds than there needs to be. Heck, at highway speeds, I would be happy with no power assist at all :P .

    Now, I only have 1200 mile on the G37, so maybe I just haven't got used to the car yet. I test drove a '328 when i was shopping around and during the (short) test drives of both cars, I did not feel much of a difference. It has taken me several hundred miles to come to this conclusion about the G37's steering.

    I also still have, and drive an '87 '325. In my mind, it's steering feel is just what it should be, even though I don't think it has speed-adaptive power steering.
  • millwood0millwood0 Posts: 451
    I was driving today behind a Jetta and it dawned on me that the G's handling is very much like that of a VW: sporty in a crude way.

    obviously, the G has a much more solid body but almost in every way it reminds me of an old VW Santana in terms of how the suspension behaves.
  • members78members78 Posts: 130
    "I was driving today behind a Jetta and it dawned on me that the G's handling is very much like that of a VW: sporty in a crude way. "

    it's odd that the G's 'crude' handling earned it a top 10 best car for 2009 by C&D, but what do they know?
  • srs_49srs_49 Posts: 1,394
    obviously, the G has a much more solid body but almost in every way it reminds me of an old VW Santana in terms of how the suspension behaves

    Never having driven a WW Santana, or any VW for that matter, it's hard for me to comment.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    Didn't I read something about 'value' in that review? I personally discount reviews where a car wins on 'value'.
  • millwood0millwood0 Posts: 451
    "it's odd that the G's 'crude' handling earned it a top 10 best car for 2009 by C&D, but what do they know?"

    maybe there is a difference between top 10 best cars and top 10 best HANDLING cars?

    hopefully that's not too difficult to understand.
  • millwood0millwood0 Posts: 451
    "I personally discount reviews where a car wins on 'value'."

    it obviously depends on our individual financial situations. if you have unlimited resources, you buy the best car.

    for the rest of us, we buy the best car our money can buy. aka value is a big part of our consideration. A great car to Bill Gates can be a terrible car for you if you have to mortgage the rest of your live.
  • members78members78 Posts: 130
    "maybe there is a difference between top 10 best cars and top 10 best HANDLING cars? "

    C&D described the G's handling as agile and MotorTrend couldn't decide who had the better handling between the G and 335i.

    should i go with the automotive experts, or some joe schmoe on edmunds? that's a tough one... :confuse:
  • jimbresjimbres Posts: 2,025
    should i go with the automotive experts, or some joe schmoe on edmunds? that's a tough one...

    Neither. You drive both cars & you go with your own impressions.

    After all, neither the "automotive experts" nor "Joe Schmoe on Edmunds" will make your payments for you.
  • millwood0millwood0 Posts: 451
    "should i go with the automotive experts, or some joe schmoe on edmunds? that's a tough one... "

    you should go with no one. trust your own experience because that's what matters end of the day.

    anyone taking the words of others is a fool. assuming of course you comprehend the difference between top 10 best cars and top 10 best HANDLING cars.
  • millwood0millwood0 Posts: 451
    on the value question, I was just curious how MSRP would differ between a 328x and a comparably equip'd G37x, with premium + navigation packages.

    G37x, P+N: $41K.
    328x, P+N+auto+a few others: $45K.

    I got my G37x P+N for $34K+TTL.

    it would be very difficult to get that 328x into the same territory, I assume.

    However, the higher msrp on the BMW (and higher residual %) make it quite competitive leasing wise.
  • millwood0millwood0 Posts: 451
    "Neither. "

    wise answer, :).

    I used to be in investment banking, dishing out M&A advices. in a (free) pre-engagement sale, we typically lay out options for the board and stop at that point. Upon engagement, we give them a recommendation as to what they should do.

    More than one fellow commented to me that all the big money fees they paid bought them is our recommendations, :), as all the options on which the recommendation is based are free and laid out for the board before hand.

    yes, opinions are free for a reason: everyone has more than one to offer.

    :)
  • members78members78 Posts: 130
    "anyone taking the words of others is a fool"

    wait, so the legions of people taking advice are fools? why go to doctors or lawyers when you can diagnose or litigate yourself. seriously, where do you get your lines from?

    and yes i have driven the 335i and I own a G37. theyre both great cars, and i wouldnt describe either one's handling as 'crude'. and after reading just about every professional review of the G, ive never heard anyone describe the handling in such a way.
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Posts: 3,118
    You only got your G37 for that price because of current dealer incentives on 2009 models.

    There are also incentives on leftover 2009 328xi's - $1,850 customer cash and $3,500 in dealer incentives. If you are careful with the options, you could get one for under $30,000.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 45,981
    True but if you make a bad decision on a car you don't die or go to jail. (usually).

    Packard used to have a slogan "Ask the Man Who Owns One" and it's still pretty good advice, because the concept of "handling" or "value" is way more subjective than one might think.

    I recall one time we had a topic on "handling" here at Edmunds and after about 300 posts, a group of very intelligent participants couldn't even agree as to what "handling" actually meant! :P

    Also there's a bit of fussiness and ego in car magazines that you have to watch out for, or it could mislead you. I'm thinking of things like a car getting a "great handling" score, and the buyer finding out that yeah, it handles great, but it rides like a stagecoach over cobblestones (e.g., early MINI).

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  • srs_49srs_49 Posts: 1,394
    My G37S was $36,649 + TTL. That was with Premium+Nav+Aero+Dest.

    I could not have touched a 2009 '328 for anywhere close to that price.

    So yes, value is part of the decision making. I think that's true for 98% of the people out there, not just for cars, but for pretty much everything else they buy. No matter how much you spend for something, there's probably another similar product out there that's even more expensive that, you decide for whatever reason, is not just worth the increase in cost. That's the "value" decision. And that break point is at different places for different people.
  • millwood0millwood0 Posts: 451
    "after reading just about every professional review of the G, ive never heard anyone describe the handling in such a way."

    there is always a first for everything.

    next time when someone tells you that the G's handling is crude, you will remember that you heard it first here.

    and you know, hopefully, that top 10 best cars aren't necessarily top 10 best HANDLING cars.
  • cdnpinheadcdnpinhead Forest Lakes, AZPosts: 3,312
    value the "ride" over handling.

    The trick is to have a stiff suspension that allows great cornering while not jarring ones fillings out. I put seriously stiff springs & shocks in my 240-Z, then my 510, then bought a Miata R package, all of which value handing over ride. Me. . .jar away. Most people, not so much.

    BMW seems to have figured out how to produce a car that will corner wonderfully and still absorb pot holes, or so I've heard. I've never driven one, because I'm fairly confident that if I did, I'd be ruined & have to have one.

    It's a long story.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 45,981
    Combining excellent handling and excellent ride is a *very* sophisticated process of engineering (and somewhat expensive) .

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  • millwood0millwood0 Posts: 451
    'Combining excellent handling and excellent ride is a *very* sophisticated process of engineering (and somewhat expensive) . "

    absolutely. That's why BMW can charge what it is charging for BMWs: they offer a great compromise between handling, comfort and luxury.

    the alternative, of having two or three cars each excels in one of the goals, would have been far more expensive, and less convenient.

    What some folks failed and continue to fail to see is that a great handling car isn't desirable all the times, especially when you are hauling the family to the local market, or going from NYC to LA.
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