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BMW 335i vs Infiniti G37

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Comments

  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    Not one of my facts has been disputed by a single person on here. The only issue anyone is taking with my posts are my claims that you pay more just for the nameplate.

    Understand that I don't have a dog in this hunt. Never owned a BMW. Never owned an Infiniti. And I'll further qualify my position further by saying that the last time I test drove and compared the two back to back, it was the previous G35 against the 330i. And the TL 6-speed, which I ended up buying.

    On the quantifiable factual basis of your claims, it certainly appears that, in the Washington DC area, the resale values of 3-4-5 year old 3 series are considerably higher than the G35, in spite of what the Edmunds and KBB figures suggest. That's from friends and associates who have been on the buying and selling side of both. I am pleased to report that my 2004 TL 6-speed appears to have both of them beat in resale value, in percentage terms, but the 3 is close and the G is not.

    More importantly, you seem stuck on the idea that anything that cannot be quantified in terms of 0-60 performance, number of stereo speakers and techno do-dads, etc. must, by nature, be purely opinion and nameplate based.

    Back in 2004, I sincerely wanted to like the G35 6-speed sedan. I had logged 150k miles on a Nissan Maxima SE and it was the best automotive experience in my 30 years of driving. But the things that kept me from the G35 were not quantifiable, but very real, nonetheless. The shifter, compared to the 330i and TL, felt like it had come from Fred Flinstones car. Notchy, rubbery and the antithesis of the short throw Honda S2000 I owned at the time. The TL and 330i were far superior. For someone that likes/requires a manual transmission, that was a huge "qualitative" difference. Similarly, the G35 engine felt rough at higher rpms, compared to the smoothness of the TL and 330i. The G's handling was not particularly impressive, the RWD vs. FWD TL setup notwithstanding. Interior design of the G35, at that time, was clearly by committee and not a very cooperative one.

    All of these faults, and a few others, conspired against the G35 as a choice for me in 2004. I ended up making a compromise to the performance capabilities of the 330i in getting the FWD TL 6-speed, but I didn't feel as though the G35 had a single advantage over the TL and plenty of disadvantages.

    My point, not particularly concise, is that there are plenty of attributes that are important to car purchase decisions that cannot be quantified. And I take issue with those auto magazines that try to quantify some that they shouldn't. Like factoring in price in their final ratings as though everybody has the same financial perspective. Hell, in 1994 I bought a bare bones Maxima because I wasn't comfortable paying $1,000 for a sunroof. In 2005 I paid $10,000 more for a 911 C2S cabriolet than a coupe. No one can rationalize or quantify that decision.

    The new G35/G37 has been improved. As has the 335i. Perhaps the gap has been narrowed. But don't think that anything that doesn't have a number beside it is a "nameplate" inspired opinion. I gave Infiniti the benefit of their nameplate in 2004 and they still came up short.
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,399
    In 2005 I paid $10,000 more for a 911 C2S cabriolet than a coupe. No one can rationalize or quantify that decision.

    In most cases, you get what you want unless you think twice about what you got, which is what you think you wanted at the time you got it and didn't take the time to make sure it was what you wanted before you got it!

    In your case it was exactly what you wanted. Period.

    You just think more clearly than "name plate" shoppers.

    Regards,
    OW
  • chirpchirp Posts: 194
    Is the TL a coupe?
  • So nick, we get the fact that you dont like run flats, etc. But what these forums are about is well, LOVE! People spend loads of money on these damn things and try to cerebrally explain their choices and get caught up in the nuts and bolts and dont really explain that they LOVE this or that car. Now, please explain why you "liked" the G better because you didnt say "love" which is what most of these BMW 3 owners are trying to say!
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,399
    Yup, fell in love after the first test drive, which was after the G35 coupe at the time. Liked the G, loved the 3.

    Regards,
    OW
  • chirpchirp Posts: 194
    It's only a car...That's nutz :surprise:
  • viralviral Posts: 12
    On the quantifiable factual basis of your claims, it certainly appears that, in the Washington DC area, the resale values of 3-4-5 year old 3 series are considerably higher than the G35, in spite of what the Edmunds and KBB figures suggest. That's from friends and associates who have been on the buying and selling side of both. I am pleased to report that my 2004 TL 6-speed appears to have both of them beat in resale value, in percentage terms, but the 3 is close and the G is not.

    So basically what you're saying is that we shouldn't believe what Edmunds or Kelly Blue Book (the industry standard on such matters for decades) has to say on resale value, but rather your friend's personal experience buying or selling one of these cars in one market? That is ludicrous. BTW, I looked up 2004 resale values, and the TL was below both the 3 series and G35 Sedan (again, the Coupe was the 4th best IN ANY CATEGORY that year). The TL was also the only one of the three not to make C&D's 10 Best in 2004. (http://www.caranddriver.com/bestcars/7571/10best-cars.html)

    You're comparing a FWD 4 door sedan with a 50+ HP and torque deficit over both the 335i and G37. You might as well be talking about a Camry. Those comparison are too far removed to be relevant in this discussion.

    I'm not hung up on anything. I'm using facts and numbers to disprove the false claims being made by others. I'm completely aware of the fact that there are a number of intangibles that can't be measured or quantified. I said as much in my last post. None of my comments are about that. But so far, nothing here has challenged my ongoing point that, in all those categories that CAN be measured and quantified, these two cars are dead even, leaving only those previously stated "intangibles" to justify the $10,000 price difference.
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,399
    I can fall in love with intangibles...as long as they delight!!!

    Regards,
    OW
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    Everything I've read gives the nod to the 335. Close yes. Dead even no.
  • chirpchirp Posts: 194
    You are right, the window sticker contest goes to the BMW. It's not even close :D
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    Nope. Wrong again. Not taking about window stickers. Nor tire pressure, nor number of quarts of oil. We're talking performance numbers. 0 to 60, skidpad and the like. Although for myself I believe skippad is useless.
  • chirpchirp Posts: 194
    "tick faster around the track than the 335i". You've been reading the wrong magazines again...
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    Okay I give, I'll believe what you say. The G37 is faster on the track. But when and where it counts, merging, stop lights etc, the 335 is faster. Not to mention better road feel, better looks. I'll pay the difference.
  • getzgetz Posts: 24
    http://www.caranddriver.com/features/13181/2007-bmw-335i-coupe.html

    Peruse this article, and then try and convince me a bloated G37 coupe is a better track car than the BMW. I have been to countless track events, and the number of BMW's there far out weighs the Infiniti's. Given all intangibles aside, I would pay the premium simply for the 335's advantage in acceleration. According to Viral, I need not even drive a vehicle when shopping. I simply have to make a spreadsheet, compare a couple of autorag reviews, and put my money on the one that wins the cost analysis.
    -Getz
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,399
    Count me in also...$10g's is worth it! It's all about the feel but I am redundant so forgive me that. Some feel different and all the power to them.

    Regards,
    OW
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    BTW, I looked up 2004 resale values, and the TL was below both the 3 series and G35 Sedan

    Top Resale Values

    I see the TL there. Not Infiniti. What's your source? Or maybe you need your eyes checked?

    As for Edmunds being the definitive source. No disrespect to our fine hosts here, but when I bought a 2002 Honda S2000 in November 2001, the Edmunds "True Market Value" was $36,800 for my zip code, $4,000 over the MSRP. I purchased for $32k. In September, 2005, the Edmunds TMV on a 911 S Cabriolet was exactly MSRP. I got a $10k discount. I'd like to think I'm just so damn good of a negotiator. But the reality is that Edmunds does their best, but local market conditions can vary greatly. In my area, Infiniti's are very tough to resell or trade and expect to get KBB prices. Not so with BMW or Acura. I always pay cash for my cars, so the real world resale vaue is something I consider carefully. And that requires a little more than blind reliance on anybody's "top ten" list, the one above included.
  • viralviral Posts: 12
    BTW, I looked up 2004 resale values, and the TL was below both the 3 series and G35 Sedan

    I see the TL there. Not Infiniti. What's your source? Or maybe you need your eyes checked?


    The link you provided was for Model Year 2006 on ALG, not 2004 (your model) like I listed. Maybe YOU should have your eyes checked. For 2004 models, here's one of several links:

    http://www.edmunds.com/reviews/list/top10/102467/article.html
    (3 series: 49%, G35: 47%, TL: 46%) and
    2005:
    http://money.cnn.com/2004/08/23/pf/autos/kbb_resale_value/index.htm
    2006:
    http://money.cnn.com/2005/10/03/Autos/tipsandadvice/kbb_resale_value_awards/inde- - x.htm
    http://www.consumerismcommentary.com/2005/10/07/best-auto-resale-value/

    And since you brought up ALG, let's look at the 2008 predicted resale values just released from them, including these two cars (and much more relevant to this thread than your 4 year old TL's now proven mediocre resale value)

    From http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/articles/prnewswire/NYW10224102007-1.htm

    Infiniti USA won the Luxury Brand Residual Value Award for the first time -- also the first time any company other than BMW or Lexus has won the overall Luxury award. In addition, Infiniti won the Near Luxury segment award for the G35/G37.

    So for the third time, I've shown the G to be equal or better than the 3 series in resale value, over several model years, from Kelly Blue Book, Edmunds AND Automotive Lease Guide. But again you suggest that we ignore YEARS of resale results from the top automotive sources and take your word for it because you know someone who had a hard time selling their individual car for the value Edmunds claimed? You're losing credibility very quickly.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    Guess it depends what you want to measure. Funny how they predict the G37 but not the 335.

    BEST EXTERIOR STYLING:
    Non-Luxury Sedan/Coupe/Hatchback Segment: Honda
    Luxury Sedan/Coupe/Hatchback Segment: BMW
    Non-Luxury SUV Segment: Ford
    Luxury SUV Segment: Mercedes-Benz
    Truck Segment: Chevrolet
    Minivan Segment: Honda
    Sports Car/Convertible Segment: Porsche

    BEST Interior Layout/Driving Comfort:
    Non-Luxury Sedan/Coupe/Hatchback Segment: Toyota
    Luxury Sedan/Coupe/Hatchback Segment: Lexus
    Non-Luxury SUV Segment: Toyota
    Luxury SUV Segment: Lexus
    Truck Segment: Chevrolet
    Minivan Segment: Toyota
    Sports Car/Convertible Segment: Lexus

    Overall findings
    Best Overall Exterior Styling: Porsche
    Best Overall Interior Layout/Driving Comfort: Lexus
    Best Overall Prestige Brand /Luxury/Sophistication: Mercedes-Benz
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    your 4 year old TL's now proven mediocre resale value....You're losing credibility very quickly.

    With a statement like that, I'm losing credibility?

    Let's Just see what you've "proven". From the source that you choose to quote, the G35 is 47% and the TL is 46%. So that whopping 1% makes the TL "mediocre" and the G35 what? "Doubly mediocre" compared to the 49% 3 series? "Five times as mediocre" as my previous Honda S2000 at 52%? Or better yet "10 times - a whole order of magnitude - as mediocre" as my current 911 which at 57% just happens to be the top resale car on the entire list.

    There are many "top ten" lists that you conveniently disregard in favor of Edmunds (fine hosts that they are). I'm sure not because the Infiniti isn't even on those lists, correct?

    Whatever credibility you think I'm losing quickly, you better hope to find, because you've lost it completely.
  • viralviral Posts: 12
    Here's your quote:

    On the quantifiable factual basis of your claims, it certainly appears that, in the Washington DC area, the resale values of 3-4-5 year old 3 series are considerably higher than the G35, in spite of what the Edmunds and KBB figures suggest. That's from friends and associates who have been on the buying and selling side of both. I am pleased to report that my 2004 TL 6-speed appears to have both of them beat in resale value, in percentage terms, but the 3 is close and the G is not.

    These aren't "my" claims. I showed you a trusted source proving this statement to be incorrect, using 'percentage terms' to which you spoke. There was no "cherry picking" of articles. Choose any resale list from any trusted source for 2004 model years. Feel free to show US proof of your claims of the TL on top, the 3 series very close and the G lagging way behind and I'll gladly recant my statement. (btw, "friends and associates" isn't proof)

    Until then, I can say I haven't made any false claims or statements here which would call my credibility into question. You can't say the same without some proof.
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    Let's debate the facts and leave the assessment of credibility to individual readers in their own minds.
  • chirpchirp Posts: 194
    I've had 4 Acuras including a TL. Nice cars, but cannot compare to an Infiniti, BMW, Mercedes or Porsche. They were reliable as hell, but had no passion, so I have moved on. I bought the Acuras because I needed daily drivers that were sensible. I've lost my sensibilities now and only buy cars that I am passionate about. :) Oh yeah, this G37 rocks!!!!!!
  • viralviral Posts: 12
    Year after year, the G keeps one-upping the 3 series in resale value and it just happened again. Kelly Blue Book just released its 10 best resale value cars for M.Y. 2008.

    KBB Top resale value for 2008

    Corvette tops list of 10 best resale value cars


    Here's the list:

    1. Chevy Corvette
    2. Honda Civic Sedan
    3. Infiniti G37 Coupe
    4. Mini Cooper
    5. Scion tC
    6. Scion xB
    7. Toyota Corolla
    8. Volkswagen Eos
    9. Volkswagen Jetta
    10. Volkwagen Rabbit

    None of the 3 series made the top ten. But I'm guessing someone's buddy's uncle's neighbor will have proof KBB is wrong yet again. LOL!

    I also just noticed the "Learn MOre" box to the right show Owner Reviews here at Edmunds. Even Bimmer owners don't rate their cars as high as G owners.

    08 BMW 3 series - 8.8
    08 Infiniti G37 - 9.4
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    So now your using KBB as proof the G35 is a better entry level sports sedan than the 3 series. Wow. This topic really has degenerated. :surprise So let me summarize, other than the fact the 335 is a better entry level sports sedan than the G35, the G35 has better "value" and resale, but that makes it a better car.
  • Personally, I'd put more reliance on the actual residual values being used by leasing companies as a estimate of resale value down the road. They are competing for your business, and are literally putting billions of dollars at stake on validity of their estimates. Kelly is primarily an advertising company with essentially nothing to lose if they "guess" wrong. They are a decent data collector after the fact, but when they project out into the future, they have had some notorious misses. Like projecting that the old Audi 5000 my father owned would be a "best buy". He got slaughtered on resale.

    According to the lease residual tables listed under cars.com: residual values

    2008 Model 2 - 3 - 4 - 5 Year residuals (as % of initial price):

    G35 Sedan: 63 - 53 - 43 - 37
    335i Sedan: 63 - 53 - 42 - 35

    And, for the fun of it:

    911 Coupe: 70 - 57 - 48 - 40
    CTS Sedan: 57 - 48 - 40 - 33
    335ic Conv.: 68 - 57 - 47 - 37
    TL Sedan: 64 - 54 - 44 - 37

    I think what this shows is that essentially, the 335i and G35 (and TL) are nearly identical in residual/resale values. If anything the TL is slightly ahead of both. But a single % or two either way is insignificant.

    As for the list not including some obvious resale leaders, like the 911 Coupe which has been on the top of resale/residual values for a couple of decades, I can only assume Porsche forgot to send Kelly an advertising check.

    If you are trying to decide between the G35 and 335i based upon resale, you are splitting hairs with a very dull knife. There is a world of difference between how these cars drive and feel in my opinion, but hardly any on resale.
  • My mistake - just caught that this comparison is between the G37 coupe and, presumably, 335i coupe. The figures I quoted above were for the sedan versions of each car.

    In checking the residual values of the G37 coupe they are significantly higher than the G35 sedan.

    Unfortunately, the G37 coupe didn't even make it to my short list (no pun intended) because of the back seat. I already own a 911 coupe and am looking for a sedan/coupe to add as a primary driver for the winter months and those times when I need to carry passengers. I don't fit into the rear seat (5'5", 110 lbs) of the G37 much more comfortably than I do in the back of my 911. So it's a noncontender.

    That said, the G37 does appear to have impressive residual values.
  • pmvipmvi Posts: 63
    I think he was just replying to the assertion that the 3-series had much better resale value.

    While I don't necessarily agree with viral's assessment of the "equality" of these two fine vehicles, he/she has made a much more credible argument in my view. That said, I find many of the posts from both camps to be completely without credibility. Still entertaining though! :)

    For my tastes, I prefer the BMW coupe and the Infiniti sedan. As far as engines/drivetrains go, I do think the BMW has a leg up (even without LSD).
  • cdnpinheadcdnpinhead Forest Lakes, AZPosts: 3,311
    ". . .splitting hairs with a very dull knife."

    Very nice turn of phrase.

    If you're the person who's been posting from time to time in the manual transmission forum, I've been enjoying your posts for quite awhile.

    If you're not, then I guess I've just started.

    Either way, welcome to the "BMW vs. everyone else" contest. It's being discussed in about 50 forums.

    Oh boy.
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,399
    Either way, welcome to the "BMW vs. everyone else" contest.

    Hopefully, everyone else catches up!

    Regards,
    OW
  • viralviral Posts: 12
    Fair enough, redsoxgirl. If you'd rather compare lease residual values, using the exact same page you listed, here are the numbers for the two cars in question (higher is better):

    335i Coupe: 63 53 43 34
    G37 Sport: 73 61 51 43

    So using your most trusted source, not only does the G37 absolutely slaughter the 335i Coupe, it bests even the 911 Coupe you listed above! So using Lease residual values, you now see that, not only is the G $10,000 cheaper, similarly equipped, but it's going to be worth MUCH more in resale, in every year listed. Not only will the Bimmer cost you more up front, it'll cost you more on the back end too, almost 10% more! And as you said, they put BILLIONS on the line every year, so they MUST get it right.

    kdshapiro, once again, you're completely missing the point. As I've stated over and over, my posts have one goal: to set straight all the false claims that others on here are making about the 335 vs the G37. Go back and reread the thread if you need to, but several here have claimed that the BMW's "superior" resale value will "more than make up" for it's $10,000 price differential. These resale/residual value posts only serve to prove that statement false. Bottom line here, 335i Coupe has WORSE resale value (with a margin getting wider with each new model year, as shown above), making the price difference even greater, not less.

    You also claimed a few posts back that "everything you read seems to give the nod to the 335i". But as I posted before, both Motor Trend and Road&Track, two of the three most widely read automotive mags in the country, have had shootouts between these two cars and BOTH chose the G37 as the winner. What exactly are you reading? Obscure Bimmer fan blogs? Because all the trusted sources keep declaring "The King is Dead!" These are professional drivers who do this all day, every day, for a living. And they are generally BMW biased (because of their stellar record) and readily admit it (hence the title of that article).

    pmvi, It's not really my assertion as much as the drivers in these shootouts that name these vehicles a virtual coin flip in almost every respect. I love BMWs. My dad is a diehard bimmer driver (both cars and motorcycles). But I can't sit idly by and listen to people spout nonsense when someone posts the question for an honest comparison of these two cars. How can he be expected to even test drive both when all he sees on here was "Oh BMW wins hands down" and "BMW has a much better resale value" and "BMW has a better warranty" etc. All of those statements were made, all have been proven wrong.

    And regarding your comment:
    As far as engines/drivetrains go, I do think the BMW has a leg up (even without LSD).:

    According to a quote from Ward's 10 Best Engines:
    "The Nissan VQ engine is the only engine to have been present on the list every year since the competition’s inception in 1995."

    That's a pretty strong statement from a highly regarded source. I think they might disagree with you.
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