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BMW 335i vs Infiniti G37

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  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    "kdshapiro, once again, you're completely missing the point. As I've stated over and over, my posts have one goal: to set straight all the false claims that others on here are making about the 335 vs the G37."

    My point is the 335 is still a better performer than the G37, drives better, feels better and for my book looks better. Residual values, mp3 players, back up cameras have nothing to do with the mission of the cars and the BMW wins handily wins hands down on the intended mission. I'll start with edmunds own comparo as a supporting conversation.

    You cannot get a good lease deal on an Infiniti, BMW provides much better leasing support. This in turn effects future residuals and future sales of certified cars. Yes, it's a bit of a guessing game.

    According to a quote from Ward's 10 Best Engines:
    "The Nissan VQ engine is the only engine to have been present on the list every year since the competition’s inception in 1995."


    There are other awards where the VQ doesn't even get a mention, where it is felt the VQ is a good, inefficient performer handily outdone by other engines.
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    I am prepared to admit that, although it is only one factor, I am surprised by the excellent resale/residual value that is being estimated for the G37. Clearly Infiniti has improved in this regard from the early days of the Q45 and J30 that depreciated about 40% before your second fill-up. And another 10% before your first oil change.

    But it does beg the question as to why the G35 sedan is so much below the G37 coupe? A couple of percent is understandable - but at 10%+ these two cars are miles apart. I am wondering if the coupe is benefiting from its better looking design and higher performance - or just because of more limited production.

    Secondly, your link to Wards isn't to their 10 best list. I would like to see if they still list the Nissan/Infiniti V6 on ther list. I have a 1995 Maxima and it still runs smooth after 155k miles. But the 2004 G35 I test drove was, by comparison, rough. Not to mention that the 6-speed manual gearbox was notchy and imprecise compared to the crisp short throw 6-speeds in the 2004 TL and 330i ZHP. I thought at some point Infiniti lost their string of Ward's engine awards?

    I'm not in the market for a coupe (or any car for that matter), but I will stop in for a test drive of the G37 when I get a chance. If they fixed all of the things that I didn't like about the 2004 G35 sedan and bolstered resale, good for them.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    I would like to find the time to test drive the G37 as well. But I would buy the 350 before the G37. In fact I would buy the CTS before the G37. Something about Infinitis doesn't get me excited.
  • viralviral Posts: 12
    Habitat - Here's the list for the 2007 Wards ten Best Engines -
    http://wardsauto.com/reports/2007/tenbest/

    And a quote from it -
    "Nissan Motor Co. Ltd. 3.5L DOHC V-6 - Nissan adds to its VQ V-6 legend with an unprecedented 13th consecutive Ward’s 10 Best Engines honor."

    I had assumed that some of the naysayers here had never even test driven / ridden in a G37. And it looks like I'm right, at least for some. The car shares very little feel and attitude with the G sedan. The G37 Coupe is an animal. To even compete (much less win) against a twin turbocharged 335i coupe at $10,000 less is a world -class accomplishment. I'm astonished that more serious car enthusiasts don't see that.

    As for looks, that's very subjective. I think the new 3 series coupe are the most bland, watered down BMWs in a decade vs the G37, which is a work of art on wheels.How anyone can think a boxy caddy is more attractive that a G coupe is well beyond me.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    Where is Nissan in this "International" forum?

    http://www.ukintpress.com/engineoftheyear/whatsnew.html

    "As for looks, that's very subjective. I think the new 3 series coupe are the most bland, watered down BMWs in a decade vs the G37, which is a work of art on wheels.How anyone can think a boxy caddy is more attractive that a G coupe is well beyond me. "

    I agree, how any things the G37 is a work of art or is sexier than the 335 coupe is beyone me as well . Granted the 335 is not perfect, the stupid arm that delivers the seatbelt is a rube goldberg contraption.
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    But I would buy the 350 before the G37. In fact I would buy the CTS before the G37. Something about Infinitis doesn't get me excited.

    I sincerely hope that was a slip of tongue caused by your preference for the 335i over the G37. Because if you would really take a slushbox only IS350 or a Mattel Toy inspired, chrome crazed CTS over a G37, I think you are endangering your credibility. Personally, I'd punt the entire sport sedan segment before I succumbed to an automatic transmssion or Rock-em Sock-em Robot American styling.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    The CTS is a very nice boulevard cruiser with a hint of sportiness. I took one a test drive a couple of model years ago. Boulevard cruisers have their place. The Lexus is as tight as a sardine can. While some people claim they can carry 5 NBA stars in a 350/250 with room to spare I'm not seeing that point of view. Although Lexus being Lexus, they are not out to build a car with "raw" sports attributes like the G.

    For whatever reason I have not warmed up to the G and it's variants after 5 years. Infiniti is clearly nipping at BMWs heals and has surpassed it in the gadget department, I just can't see myself in one however.
  • It's amazing to me how passionate people get over this argument. I have never owned an Infiniti or BMW but am currently trying to decide between the 335i and G37. Having no "loyalty" to either brand, I'll give you my "objective" viewpoint on this debate on a variety of dimensions (apologies for the length - skip this whole post if you want):

    First and foremost - these cars are VERY similar when you look at the BIG picture (i.e. they are basically the only 4 passenger, luxury-oriented, rear-drive sport coupes on the market under $50K and as one review put, are "chasing the same driver") Every other car in this field is much less squarely "head-to-head" - i.e. they differ on some fundamentally basic characteristic, not simply on quality, performance or personal preference.

    Regarding expert/numerical performance assessments - having read tons of reviews, my conclusion is that the "experts" (myself clearly not included) would be nearly unanimous on the point that the BMW accelerates faster, but not by some monstrous amount. They seem less unanimous on handling, although *most* seem to also prefer the BMW's steering feel, regardless of who comes out on top in slalom or skidpad tests. In general, I have concluded that the BMW would be preferred by nearly all "experts" if driving characteristics were the only differences.

    Regarding "the typical enthusiast" driving impressions... Look I'm no race car driver, but consider myself an enthusiast (only owned one automatic in my life, and it hasn't been to save $800 on the transmission). That said, I can't tell much difference in handling feel or acceleration between these two cars in a spirited (but not daredevil) test drive. I think the Bimmer feels slightly "smoother" and perhaps more responsive, but by such a narrow margin that minor pavement differences between the two test drives (or other small factors) could explain it.

    Regarding the interior quality - my personal opinion is that the G wins on "features" (unless you spend a LOT more on the Bimmer) and that the BMW wins on "quality". The BMW's leather and controls just feel more upscale to me. "Style" is a personal preference, but the G does feel more modern to me inside. I think most reviewers (myself included and probably the public in general) feel that the G35 has the better cockpit save for material quality, but that material quality matters a lot in a luxury interior. Perhaps slight edge to the bimmer, but wouldn't it be nice to have a G35 cockpit/features with BMW materials?

    Price: decided advantage to the Infiniti. Comparably priced, the BMW looks like a stripped down model (you can get a G with nav, leather, advanced key, ipod, heated seats, etc. for practically the price of getting a 335 with leatherette and no options) Comparably equipped, they are about $6-7000 (give or take) apart and the Infiniti dealers (at least in my area) seem more willing to deal by a small margin.

    Regarding resale - the Infiniti clearly wins here (both in % terms and in terms of raw depreciation dollars lost) and there are two reasons for it: 1) it starts out less expensive and 2) its long-term maintenance is (at least perceived to be) less painful to the owner - long after the warranty and free maintenance is gone, people expect Japanese cars to be less expensive to maintain. (As a side note for people who wonder why the coupe does so much better than the sedan on resale - I think it is because there are so many other reliable sporty sedans out there competing in the used car market. If you want a reliable Japanese luxury sport coupe in the used market, you buy the G. If you want a sedan, there is more competition.)

    Image - some people are German "snobs" (I don't mean that to sound as bad as it does). I don't know many people that tout Japanese superiority in luxury or performance vs. the Germans (reliability and value is another story entirely). At the end of the day, the BMW brand holds some additional cache for many people. I have to admit it influences me at least a little. Not that the Infiniti has a poor brand, just a slight nod to the "old school" here.

    Bottom line (I know, it takes a long time to get here)...the Bimmer is the *slightly* "better" car, but the Infiniti is the decidedly better value. That being said, not everyone buys purely on value, especially in a sport coupe. I am personally so torn between these two cars I still don't know which way I am going to lean in the end...

    The head says Infiniti, the heart says BMW...but then the heart says Infiniti plus a nice watch and a vacation... but then the head says buy the BMW and you won't regret it and you can get the watch and vacation later... and the heart chimes in with "just splurge on all of it now" to heck with the consequences...at which point the head just laughs at the heart. Any of this sound familiar?

    Now that the fence-sitter has said his peace, let the two camps continue to fight the good the fight. (By the way, I actually hope someone can refute half of what I said and come up with a decisive argument for one of these two cars over the other. Then I will be able to sleep again...)
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    Nice post. People are passionate about their cars. One test drive in an E46 a few years ago sold me.

    If we look at the *big* picture, there isn't really any difference in any of the entry level luxury sports sedans, all 6-10 of them depending on how you count. It's only when we get into the details do we notice the differences.

    Some of your impressions match mine, some don't. I did skip the watch, and did take the vacation. Happy car shopping.
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    I'm not sure I can add anything to your analysis that will help you sleep better regarding which car to buy. But let me sincerely compliment you on one of the most articulate and intelligently composed posts I have read here on Edmunds.

    About all I can add for the "head" to consider is that resale becomes less of a value issue the longer you intend to keep the car. Many years ago, I bought the car I wanted (1995 Maxima SE 5-speed) over two that had better projected resale (Accord EX and Camry XLE V6). But I knew that, barring unforseen circumstances, I would be keeping the car 7-8+ years. At which point, resale differences would be relatively minimal. And I made the right choice - we still have the Maxima residing at our second home, ready to spring into life every 6+/- weeks. I never would have felt inclined to keep the slushbox Camry around for that long.

    Good luck on your decision and please post it. I'm sure I'm not the only one who is curious as to the outcome.
  • cdnpinheadcdnpinhead Forest Lakes, AZPosts: 3,281
    ". . .let me sincerely compliment you on one of the most articulate and intelligently composed posts. . ."

    Thanks, habitat, for reviewing this guy's post (I considered it too long to actually read). Since you thought it was worthy, I went back & read it.

    I agree. Sadly, it's irrelevant for me, because Infiniti doesn't provide a rear seat fold-down that will accommodate a bicycle. In my world, that's a non-negotiable item. BMW fold-down seats (or the wagon) actually accommodates a bicycle.

    Imagine that. A car chosen based on lifestyle, as opposed to 0.2 second (or whatever) 0-60 numbers. It can happen. Bring me a RWD car with a manual transmission that will hold my bicycle within it. It's a really short list, on this continent. Oh, and I really want it to be a diesel.

    Whoops, the list went from a few to zero. . .for now. Perhaps in a year or three?

    As someone is likely to point out, who wants a performance coupe (or sedan or wagon) that carries a bicycle?

    Me, and BMW provides it.
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    Oh, and I really want it to be a diesel.

    So when are we going to see a 335d or 535d? And do you think BMW will, by then, offer them with a manual transmission? I understand the European models are automatic only, supposedly because the manual can't handle the 440+ ft.lbs of torque.

    The Mercedes E320 Bluetech has never been completely erased from my list of contenders. My marketing director has one, after going from an E300 diesel to an E320 Turbodiesel to now the E320 Bluetech. Her kids inherited the former two and they occasionally all drive to their family vacation home on Hilton Head caravan style, seeing who will get closest to 40 mpg on the highway. She managed 39.5mpg on a return trip (500 miles without stopping) in September at an average speed of 75+.

    If BMW offered a 335d (or 535d) with BMW handling, a 6 speed manual and performance that would be damn near the gas model 335i, I'd accelerate my TL replacement program tomorrow.

    Enjoy your biking.
  • cdnpinheadcdnpinhead Forest Lakes, AZPosts: 3,281
    I'd be perfectly happy with a 2 litre, or the 2.5 at the outside. The smaller diesels (1.9 mostly) that I've driven in Germany & the UK made a strong believer out of me.

    I enjoy the handling around corners much more than the rush of acceleration, given a choice. Some want both. Not me, but I'm sure the 335/535d's will sell like hotcakes once they're made available over here. I'm afraid that BMW is going to work its way down from the bigger engines & may never get to the 320/325d that I covet.

    It'll take me one more car between now & 3-5 years from now, when I expect this to settle out.
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    I guess my "coveting" of a 335d/535d is based upon the fact that as the E-class diesels have gotten more powerful, both the fuel efficiency and acceleration have increased. For no real premium in price.

    I was interested to read in a lengthy Washington Post article on Steve Fossett that his latest (and now unfinished) conquest was an assault on the land speed record. They had a picture of the rocket powered car that he inteded to use to try to hit 850+ mph and I saw where it was designed to run on diesel or biodiesel fuel. I can remember my golfing buddy's 240d 4-speed manual that had to be downshifted to 2nd or 1st to make it up the Skyline Drive hills. But it did log 200k reliable miles before the cheapskate failed to replace a $20 temperature guage and blew up the engine when a radiator leak went undetected.
  • cdnpinheadcdnpinhead Forest Lakes, AZPosts: 3,281
    Today's (and 8 years ago in Europe) turbodiesels w/ intercooling don't bear much resemblance to the natuarally-aspirated 2.4 litre units of yesteryear.

    I do take your point, though. In my case, saving the $3-5K price difference between the 335 & 328 (or 320/25 diesel) enters into it as well.

    All of which (in a vain & rather delayed attempt to stay on topic) is why the "value" of the Infiniti attracted me initially, in spite of the thirsty & somewhat crude (though well thought of) engine, until the carrying capacity was confirmed to be unacceptable (for my purposes).
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 45,041
    Since a new car purchase is such a big decision, why didn't you throw in the factor of just getting a bike rack installed rather than choosing an entire car based on room inside for a bike?

    (if I may be so bold as to ask :P )

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  • gerry100gerry100 Posts: 100
    I'll be deciding between a new 328 and a 335 shortly. I'll be testing a G35 for comparison ( I assume).

    If I like the car I plan to keep it to 100K plus and assume that BMW longevity will get me though.

    BUT... A twin turbo with 100K plus miles worries me.

    Tell me it will be OK in case the dark side takes over an dpracticiality goes out the window.
  • cdnpinheadcdnpinhead Forest Lakes, AZPosts: 3,281
    Because I like to keep the bike inside the car, especially when I'm on a road trip.

    I realize it's odd, but. . .
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 45,041
    No, not odd, especially if it's a nice bike. I was just wondering. It seems my bike racks always end up costing more than my bike! But for overnights especially, I see your point.

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  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 45,041
    I'm impressed that he can stuff a bike into a BMW coupe.

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  • cdnpinheadcdnpinhead Forest Lakes, AZPosts: 3,281
    that a message has been removed.

    Wonder what it said?
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 45,041
    sometimes people delete their own messages; if Edmunds does it, your regular hosts here would notify the party immediately. Usually, it's for trying to sell something. I wouldn't worry about it.

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  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    He-he, I've been a naughty boy upon occasion, and since many of the hosts know that I know better, they simply delete my posts and don't even bother telling me that they did it. :blush:

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 45,041
    I'm sure it's just "Tough Love" on pat and karen's part, shipo ;)

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  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    I don't know what any of you are talking about and am not sure what any of this has to do with the topic.

    :shades:
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    I'm sure many of us old timers have seen a lot of "tough-love" since we joined. :blush
  • I've certainly been sent to my room without my dinner :cry: Every once in a while, I just feel compelled to lose sight of my senses!
  • Bmw is the ultimate driving machine not Nissan . I have driven both 335xi/g37 , bimmer handles better , is faster ,superior transmission , gets better gas mileage : more modern technology where it actually matters .
    Thats what impresses me as a driver , the televisions in the car do not impress, toyota corolla now offers navigation systems ...
    335xi owner ...
  • For those of you who care (likely few) I wanted to follow up my very lengthy posting and let you know the (almost final) outcome. If all goes according to plan, I will pick up my Obsidian Black G37S in January. Basically, it came down to value. While *slightly* preferring the BMW coupe overall, the G37 is just a much better value in my opinion. In the end, after negotiating on both cars with multiple dealers, the G37 sport, comparably equipped, was nearly $10K cheaper (actually about $9,800 out the door) and likely will have better resale. The interest alone of investing that extra $10K will more than pay the difference in "free maintenance".

    In the end, I just don't prefer the BMW by anywhere near $10K (maybe $3-5K). When I e-mailed the most responsive BMW dealer I had worked with and asked if he could cut into the nearly $10K gap, he didn't even respond.

    I know there are plenty of people who will say that in the long run, you won't regret buying what you want, and I partially agree. On the other hand, it's hard to imagine that I will regret having an extra $10K in the bank either (that can be put towards the next car if desired). You can always find something more expensive that would be even better. (Actually, I'd take the Audi S5 over the 335i, it's only about $8-10K more...)

    Anyway, I'm pretty excited to be getting a fantastic car at an amazing value. (And no real knock to the 335i, if the Infiniti didn't exist, I'd have bought the Bimmer and thought it was a good value, too).
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