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BMW 335i vs Infiniti G37

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  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    Not one of my facts has been disputed by a single person on here. The only issue anyone is taking with my posts are my claims that you pay more just for the nameplate.

    Understand that I don't have a dog in this hunt. Never owned a BMW. Never owned an Infiniti. And I'll further qualify my position further by saying that the last time I test drove and compared the two back to back, it was the previous G35 against the 330i. And the TL 6-speed, which I ended up buying.

    On the quantifiable factual basis of your claims, it certainly appears that, in the Washington DC area, the resale values of 3-4-5 year old 3 series are considerably higher than the G35, in spite of what the Edmunds and KBB figures suggest. That's from friends and associates who have been on the buying and selling side of both. I am pleased to report that my 2004 TL 6-speed appears to have both of them beat in resale value, in percentage terms, but the 3 is close and the G is not.

    More importantly, you seem stuck on the idea that anything that cannot be quantified in terms of 0-60 performance, number of stereo speakers and techno do-dads, etc. must, by nature, be purely opinion and nameplate based.

    Back in 2004, I sincerely wanted to like the G35 6-speed sedan. I had logged 150k miles on a Nissan Maxima SE and it was the best automotive experience in my 30 years of driving. But the things that kept me from the G35 were not quantifiable, but very real, nonetheless. The shifter, compared to the 330i and TL, felt like it had come from Fred Flinstones car. Notchy, rubbery and the antithesis of the short throw Honda S2000 I owned at the time. The TL and 330i were far superior. For someone that likes/requires a manual transmission, that was a huge "qualitative" difference. Similarly, the G35 engine felt rough at higher rpms, compared to the smoothness of the TL and 330i. The G's handling was not particularly impressive, the RWD vs. FWD TL setup notwithstanding. Interior design of the G35, at that time, was clearly by committee and not a very cooperative one.

    All of these faults, and a few others, conspired against the G35 as a choice for me in 2004. I ended up making a compromise to the performance capabilities of the 330i in getting the FWD TL 6-speed, but I didn't feel as though the G35 had a single advantage over the TL and plenty of disadvantages.

    My point, not particularly concise, is that there are plenty of attributes that are important to car purchase decisions that cannot be quantified. And I take issue with those auto magazines that try to quantify some that they shouldn't. Like factoring in price in their final ratings as though everybody has the same financial perspective. Hell, in 1994 I bought a bare bones Maxima because I wasn't comfortable paying $1,000 for a sunroof. In 2005 I paid $10,000 more for a 911 C2S cabriolet than a coupe. No one can rationalize or quantify that decision.

    The new G35/G37 has been improved. As has the 335i. Perhaps the gap has been narrowed. But don't think that anything that doesn't have a number beside it is a "nameplate" inspired opinion. I gave Infiniti the benefit of their nameplate in 2004 and they still came up short.
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,245
    In 2005 I paid $10,000 more for a 911 C2S cabriolet than a coupe. No one can rationalize or quantify that decision.

    In most cases, you get what you want unless you think twice about what you got, which is what you think you wanted at the time you got it and didn't take the time to make sure it was what you wanted before you got it!

    In your case it was exactly what you wanted. Period.

    You just think more clearly than "name plate" shoppers.

    Regards,
    OW
  • chirpchirp Posts: 194
    Is the TL a coupe?
  • So nick, we get the fact that you dont like run flats, etc. But what these forums are about is well, LOVE! People spend loads of money on these damn things and try to cerebrally explain their choices and get caught up in the nuts and bolts and dont really explain that they LOVE this or that car. Now, please explain why you "liked" the G better because you didnt say "love" which is what most of these BMW 3 owners are trying to say!
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,245
    Yup, fell in love after the first test drive, which was after the G35 coupe at the time. Liked the G, loved the 3.

    Regards,
    OW
  • chirpchirp Posts: 194
    It's only a car...That's nutz :surprise:
  • viralviral Posts: 12
    On the quantifiable factual basis of your claims, it certainly appears that, in the Washington DC area, the resale values of 3-4-5 year old 3 series are considerably higher than the G35, in spite of what the Edmunds and KBB figures suggest. That's from friends and associates who have been on the buying and selling side of both. I am pleased to report that my 2004 TL 6-speed appears to have both of them beat in resale value, in percentage terms, but the 3 is close and the G is not.

    So basically what you're saying is that we shouldn't believe what Edmunds or Kelly Blue Book (the industry standard on such matters for decades) has to say on resale value, but rather your friend's personal experience buying or selling one of these cars in one market? That is ludicrous. BTW, I looked up 2004 resale values, and the TL was below both the 3 series and G35 Sedan (again, the Coupe was the 4th best IN ANY CATEGORY that year). The TL was also the only one of the three not to make C&D's 10 Best in 2004. (http://www.caranddriver.com/bestcars/7571/10best-cars.html)

    You're comparing a FWD 4 door sedan with a 50+ HP and torque deficit over both the 335i and G37. You might as well be talking about a Camry. Those comparison are too far removed to be relevant in this discussion.

    I'm not hung up on anything. I'm using facts and numbers to disprove the false claims being made by others. I'm completely aware of the fact that there are a number of intangibles that can't be measured or quantified. I said as much in my last post. None of my comments are about that. But so far, nothing here has challenged my ongoing point that, in all those categories that CAN be measured and quantified, these two cars are dead even, leaving only those previously stated "intangibles" to justify the $10,000 price difference.
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,245
    I can fall in love with intangibles...as long as they delight!!!

    Regards,
    OW
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    Everything I've read gives the nod to the 335. Close yes. Dead even no.
  • chirpchirp Posts: 194
    You are right, the window sticker contest goes to the BMW. It's not even close :D
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    Nope. Wrong again. Not taking about window stickers. Nor tire pressure, nor number of quarts of oil. We're talking performance numbers. 0 to 60, skidpad and the like. Although for myself I believe skippad is useless.
  • chirpchirp Posts: 194
    "tick faster around the track than the 335i". You've been reading the wrong magazines again...
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    Okay I give, I'll believe what you say. The G37 is faster on the track. But when and where it counts, merging, stop lights etc, the 335 is faster. Not to mention better road feel, better looks. I'll pay the difference.
  • getzgetz Posts: 24
    http://www.caranddriver.com/features/13181/2007-bmw-335i-coupe.html

    Peruse this article, and then try and convince me a bloated G37 coupe is a better track car than the BMW. I have been to countless track events, and the number of BMW's there far out weighs the Infiniti's. Given all intangibles aside, I would pay the premium simply for the 335's advantage in acceleration. According to Viral, I need not even drive a vehicle when shopping. I simply have to make a spreadsheet, compare a couple of autorag reviews, and put my money on the one that wins the cost analysis.
    -Getz
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,245
    Count me in also...$10g's is worth it! It's all about the feel but I am redundant so forgive me that. Some feel different and all the power to them.

    Regards,
    OW
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    BTW, I looked up 2004 resale values, and the TL was below both the 3 series and G35 Sedan

    Top Resale Values

    I see the TL there. Not Infiniti. What's your source? Or maybe you need your eyes checked?

    As for Edmunds being the definitive source. No disrespect to our fine hosts here, but when I bought a 2002 Honda S2000 in November 2001, the Edmunds "True Market Value" was $36,800 for my zip code, $4,000 over the MSRP. I purchased for $32k. In September, 2005, the Edmunds TMV on a 911 S Cabriolet was exactly MSRP. I got a $10k discount. I'd like to think I'm just so damn good of a negotiator. But the reality is that Edmunds does their best, but local market conditions can vary greatly. In my area, Infiniti's are very tough to resell or trade and expect to get KBB prices. Not so with BMW or Acura. I always pay cash for my cars, so the real world resale vaue is something I consider carefully. And that requires a little more than blind reliance on anybody's "top ten" list, the one above included.
  • viralviral Posts: 12
    BTW, I looked up 2004 resale values, and the TL was below both the 3 series and G35 Sedan

    I see the TL there. Not Infiniti. What's your source? Or maybe you need your eyes checked?


    The link you provided was for Model Year 2006 on ALG, not 2004 (your model) like I listed. Maybe YOU should have your eyes checked. For 2004 models, here's one of several links:

    http://www.edmunds.com/reviews/list/top10/102467/article.html
    (3 series: 49%, G35: 47%, TL: 46%) and
    2005:
    http://money.cnn.com/2004/08/23/pf/autos/kbb_resale_value/index.htm
    2006:
    http://money.cnn.com/2005/10/03/Autos/tipsandadvice/kbb_resale_value_awards/inde- - x.htm
    http://www.consumerismcommentary.com/2005/10/07/best-auto-resale-value/

    And since you brought up ALG, let's look at the 2008 predicted resale values just released from them, including these two cars (and much more relevant to this thread than your 4 year old TL's now proven mediocre resale value)

    From http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/articles/prnewswire/NYW10224102007-1.htm

    Infiniti USA won the Luxury Brand Residual Value Award for the first time -- also the first time any company other than BMW or Lexus has won the overall Luxury award. In addition, Infiniti won the Near Luxury segment award for the G35/G37.

    So for the third time, I've shown the G to be equal or better than the 3 series in resale value, over several model years, from Kelly Blue Book, Edmunds AND Automotive Lease Guide. But again you suggest that we ignore YEARS of resale results from the top automotive sources and take your word for it because you know someone who had a hard time selling their individual car for the value Edmunds claimed? You're losing credibility very quickly.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    Guess it depends what you want to measure. Funny how they predict the G37 but not the 335.

    BEST EXTERIOR STYLING:
    Non-Luxury Sedan/Coupe/Hatchback Segment: Honda
    Luxury Sedan/Coupe/Hatchback Segment: BMW
    Non-Luxury SUV Segment: Ford
    Luxury SUV Segment: Mercedes-Benz
    Truck Segment: Chevrolet
    Minivan Segment: Honda
    Sports Car/Convertible Segment: Porsche

    BEST Interior Layout/Driving Comfort:
    Non-Luxury Sedan/Coupe/Hatchback Segment: Toyota
    Luxury Sedan/Coupe/Hatchback Segment: Lexus
    Non-Luxury SUV Segment: Toyota
    Luxury SUV Segment: Lexus
    Truck Segment: Chevrolet
    Minivan Segment: Toyota
    Sports Car/Convertible Segment: Lexus

    Overall findings
    Best Overall Exterior Styling: Porsche
    Best Overall Interior Layout/Driving Comfort: Lexus
    Best Overall Prestige Brand /Luxury/Sophistication: Mercedes-Benz
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    your 4 year old TL's now proven mediocre resale value....You're losing credibility very quickly.

    With a statement like that, I'm losing credibility?

    Let's Just see what you've "proven". From the source that you choose to quote, the G35 is 47% and the TL is 46%. So that whopping 1% makes the TL "mediocre" and the G35 what? "Doubly mediocre" compared to the 49% 3 series? "Five times as mediocre" as my previous Honda S2000 at 52%? Or better yet "10 times - a whole order of magnitude - as mediocre" as my current 911 which at 57% just happens to be the top resale car on the entire list.

    There are many "top ten" lists that you conveniently disregard in favor of Edmunds (fine hosts that they are). I'm sure not because the Infiniti isn't even on those lists, correct?

    Whatever credibility you think I'm losing quickly, you better hope to find, because you've lost it completely.
  • viralviral Posts: 12
    Here's your quote:

    On the quantifiable factual basis of your claims, it certainly appears that, in the Washington DC area, the resale values of 3-4-5 year old 3 series are considerably higher than the G35, in spite of what the Edmunds and KBB figures suggest. That's from friends and associates who have been on the buying and selling side of both. I am pleased to report that my 2004 TL 6-speed appears to have both of them beat in resale value, in percentage terms, but the 3 is close and the G is not.

    These aren't "my" claims. I showed you a trusted source proving this statement to be incorrect, using 'percentage terms' to which you spoke. There was no "cherry picking" of articles. Choose any resale list from any trusted source for 2004 model years. Feel free to show US proof of your claims of the TL on top, the 3 series very close and the G lagging way behind and I'll gladly recant my statement. (btw, "friends and associates" isn't proof)

    Until then, I can say I haven't made any false claims or statements here which would call my credibility into question. You can't say the same without some proof.
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