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BMW 335i vs Infiniti G37



  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    Let's debate the facts and leave the assessment of credibility to individual readers in their own minds.
  • chirpchirp Posts: 194
    I've had 4 Acuras including a TL. Nice cars, but cannot compare to an Infiniti, BMW, Mercedes or Porsche. They were reliable as hell, but had no passion, so I have moved on. I bought the Acuras because I needed daily drivers that were sensible. I've lost my sensibilities now and only buy cars that I am passionate about. :) Oh yeah, this G37 rocks!!!!!!
  • viralviral Posts: 12
    Year after year, the G keeps one-upping the 3 series in resale value and it just happened again. Kelly Blue Book just released its 10 best resale value cars for M.Y. 2008.

    KBB Top resale value for 2008

    Corvette tops list of 10 best resale value cars

    Here's the list:

    1. Chevy Corvette
    2. Honda Civic Sedan
    3. Infiniti G37 Coupe
    4. Mini Cooper
    5. Scion tC
    6. Scion xB
    7. Toyota Corolla
    8. Volkswagen Eos
    9. Volkswagen Jetta
    10. Volkwagen Rabbit

    None of the 3 series made the top ten. But I'm guessing someone's buddy's uncle's neighbor will have proof KBB is wrong yet again. LOL!

    I also just noticed the "Learn MOre" box to the right show Owner Reviews here at Edmunds. Even Bimmer owners don't rate their cars as high as G owners.

    08 BMW 3 series - 8.8
    08 Infiniti G37 - 9.4
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    So now your using KBB as proof the G35 is a better entry level sports sedan than the 3 series. Wow. This topic really has degenerated. :surprise So let me summarize, other than the fact the 335 is a better entry level sports sedan than the G35, the G35 has better "value" and resale, but that makes it a better car.
  • Personally, I'd put more reliance on the actual residual values being used by leasing companies as a estimate of resale value down the road. They are competing for your business, and are literally putting billions of dollars at stake on validity of their estimates. Kelly is primarily an advertising company with essentially nothing to lose if they "guess" wrong. They are a decent data collector after the fact, but when they project out into the future, they have had some notorious misses. Like projecting that the old Audi 5000 my father owned would be a "best buy". He got slaughtered on resale.

    According to the lease residual tables listed under residual values

    2008 Model 2 - 3 - 4 - 5 Year residuals (as % of initial price):

    G35 Sedan: 63 - 53 - 43 - 37
    335i Sedan: 63 - 53 - 42 - 35

    And, for the fun of it:

    911 Coupe: 70 - 57 - 48 - 40
    CTS Sedan: 57 - 48 - 40 - 33
    335ic Conv.: 68 - 57 - 47 - 37
    TL Sedan: 64 - 54 - 44 - 37

    I think what this shows is that essentially, the 335i and G35 (and TL) are nearly identical in residual/resale values. If anything the TL is slightly ahead of both. But a single % or two either way is insignificant.

    As for the list not including some obvious resale leaders, like the 911 Coupe which has been on the top of resale/residual values for a couple of decades, I can only assume Porsche forgot to send Kelly an advertising check.

    If you are trying to decide between the G35 and 335i based upon resale, you are splitting hairs with a very dull knife. There is a world of difference between how these cars drive and feel in my opinion, but hardly any on resale.
  • My mistake - just caught that this comparison is between the G37 coupe and, presumably, 335i coupe. The figures I quoted above were for the sedan versions of each car.

    In checking the residual values of the G37 coupe they are significantly higher than the G35 sedan.

    Unfortunately, the G37 coupe didn't even make it to my short list (no pun intended) because of the back seat. I already own a 911 coupe and am looking for a sedan/coupe to add as a primary driver for the winter months and those times when I need to carry passengers. I don't fit into the rear seat (5'5", 110 lbs) of the G37 much more comfortably than I do in the back of my 911. So it's a noncontender.

    That said, the G37 does appear to have impressive residual values.
  • pmvipmvi Posts: 63
    I think he was just replying to the assertion that the 3-series had much better resale value.

    While I don't necessarily agree with viral's assessment of the "equality" of these two fine vehicles, he/she has made a much more credible argument in my view. That said, I find many of the posts from both camps to be completely without credibility. Still entertaining though! :)

    For my tastes, I prefer the BMW coupe and the Infiniti sedan. As far as engines/drivetrains go, I do think the BMW has a leg up (even without LSD).
  • cdnpinheadcdnpinhead Forest Lakes, AZPosts: 3,238
    ". . .splitting hairs with a very dull knife."

    Very nice turn of phrase.

    If you're the person who's been posting from time to time in the manual transmission forum, I've been enjoying your posts for quite awhile.

    If you're not, then I guess I've just started.

    Either way, welcome to the "BMW vs. everyone else" contest. It's being discussed in about 50 forums.

    Oh boy.
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,354
    Either way, welcome to the "BMW vs. everyone else" contest.

    Hopefully, everyone else catches up!

  • viralviral Posts: 12
    Fair enough, redsoxgirl. If you'd rather compare lease residual values, using the exact same page you listed, here are the numbers for the two cars in question (higher is better):

    335i Coupe: 63 53 43 34
    G37 Sport: 73 61 51 43

    So using your most trusted source, not only does the G37 absolutely slaughter the 335i Coupe, it bests even the 911 Coupe you listed above! So using Lease residual values, you now see that, not only is the G $10,000 cheaper, similarly equipped, but it's going to be worth MUCH more in resale, in every year listed. Not only will the Bimmer cost you more up front, it'll cost you more on the back end too, almost 10% more! And as you said, they put BILLIONS on the line every year, so they MUST get it right.

    kdshapiro, once again, you're completely missing the point. As I've stated over and over, my posts have one goal: to set straight all the false claims that others on here are making about the 335 vs the G37. Go back and reread the thread if you need to, but several here have claimed that the BMW's "superior" resale value will "more than make up" for it's $10,000 price differential. These resale/residual value posts only serve to prove that statement false. Bottom line here, 335i Coupe has WORSE resale value (with a margin getting wider with each new model year, as shown above), making the price difference even greater, not less.

    You also claimed a few posts back that "everything you read seems to give the nod to the 335i". But as I posted before, both Motor Trend and Road&Track, two of the three most widely read automotive mags in the country, have had shootouts between these two cars and BOTH chose the G37 as the winner. What exactly are you reading? Obscure Bimmer fan blogs? Because all the trusted sources keep declaring "The King is Dead!" These are professional drivers who do this all day, every day, for a living. And they are generally BMW biased (because of their stellar record) and readily admit it (hence the title of that article).

    pmvi, It's not really my assertion as much as the drivers in these shootouts that name these vehicles a virtual coin flip in almost every respect. I love BMWs. My dad is a diehard bimmer driver (both cars and motorcycles). But I can't sit idly by and listen to people spout nonsense when someone posts the question for an honest comparison of these two cars. How can he be expected to even test drive both when all he sees on here was "Oh BMW wins hands down" and "BMW has a much better resale value" and "BMW has a better warranty" etc. All of those statements were made, all have been proven wrong.

    And regarding your comment:
    As far as engines/drivetrains go, I do think the BMW has a leg up (even without LSD).:

    According to a quote from Ward's 10 Best Engines:
    "The Nissan VQ engine is the only engine to have been present on the list every year since the competition’s inception in 1995."

    That's a pretty strong statement from a highly regarded source. I think they might disagree with you.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    "kdshapiro, once again, you're completely missing the point. As I've stated over and over, my posts have one goal: to set straight all the false claims that others on here are making about the 335 vs the G37."

    My point is the 335 is still a better performer than the G37, drives better, feels better and for my book looks better. Residual values, mp3 players, back up cameras have nothing to do with the mission of the cars and the BMW wins handily wins hands down on the intended mission. I'll start with edmunds own comparo as a supporting conversation.

    You cannot get a good lease deal on an Infiniti, BMW provides much better leasing support. This in turn effects future residuals and future sales of certified cars. Yes, it's a bit of a guessing game.

    According to a quote from Ward's 10 Best Engines:
    "The Nissan VQ engine is the only engine to have been present on the list every year since the competition’s inception in 1995."

    There are other awards where the VQ doesn't even get a mention, where it is felt the VQ is a good, inefficient performer handily outdone by other engines.
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    I am prepared to admit that, although it is only one factor, I am surprised by the excellent resale/residual value that is being estimated for the G37. Clearly Infiniti has improved in this regard from the early days of the Q45 and J30 that depreciated about 40% before your second fill-up. And another 10% before your first oil change.

    But it does beg the question as to why the G35 sedan is so much below the G37 coupe? A couple of percent is understandable - but at 10%+ these two cars are miles apart. I am wondering if the coupe is benefiting from its better looking design and higher performance - or just because of more limited production.

    Secondly, your link to Wards isn't to their 10 best list. I would like to see if they still list the Nissan/Infiniti V6 on ther list. I have a 1995 Maxima and it still runs smooth after 155k miles. But the 2004 G35 I test drove was, by comparison, rough. Not to mention that the 6-speed manual gearbox was notchy and imprecise compared to the crisp short throw 6-speeds in the 2004 TL and 330i ZHP. I thought at some point Infiniti lost their string of Ward's engine awards?

    I'm not in the market for a coupe (or any car for that matter), but I will stop in for a test drive of the G37 when I get a chance. If they fixed all of the things that I didn't like about the 2004 G35 sedan and bolstered resale, good for them.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    I would like to find the time to test drive the G37 as well. But I would buy the 350 before the G37. In fact I would buy the CTS before the G37. Something about Infinitis doesn't get me excited.
  • viralviral Posts: 12
    Habitat - Here's the list for the 2007 Wards ten Best Engines -

    And a quote from it -
    "Nissan Motor Co. Ltd. 3.5L DOHC V-6 - Nissan adds to its VQ V-6 legend with an unprecedented 13th consecutive Ward’s 10 Best Engines honor."

    I had assumed that some of the naysayers here had never even test driven / ridden in a G37. And it looks like I'm right, at least for some. The car shares very little feel and attitude with the G sedan. The G37 Coupe is an animal. To even compete (much less win) against a twin turbocharged 335i coupe at $10,000 less is a world -class accomplishment. I'm astonished that more serious car enthusiasts don't see that.

    As for looks, that's very subjective. I think the new 3 series coupe are the most bland, watered down BMWs in a decade vs the G37, which is a work of art on wheels.How anyone can think a boxy caddy is more attractive that a G coupe is well beyond me.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    Where is Nissan in this "International" forum?

    "As for looks, that's very subjective. I think the new 3 series coupe are the most bland, watered down BMWs in a decade vs the G37, which is a work of art on wheels.How anyone can think a boxy caddy is more attractive that a G coupe is well beyond me. "

    I agree, how any things the G37 is a work of art or is sexier than the 335 coupe is beyone me as well . Granted the 335 is not perfect, the stupid arm that delivers the seatbelt is a rube goldberg contraption.
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    But I would buy the 350 before the G37. In fact I would buy the CTS before the G37. Something about Infinitis doesn't get me excited.

    I sincerely hope that was a slip of tongue caused by your preference for the 335i over the G37. Because if you would really take a slushbox only IS350 or a Mattel Toy inspired, chrome crazed CTS over a G37, I think you are endangering your credibility. Personally, I'd punt the entire sport sedan segment before I succumbed to an automatic transmssion or Rock-em Sock-em Robot American styling.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    The CTS is a very nice boulevard cruiser with a hint of sportiness. I took one a test drive a couple of model years ago. Boulevard cruisers have their place. The Lexus is as tight as a sardine can. While some people claim they can carry 5 NBA stars in a 350/250 with room to spare I'm not seeing that point of view. Although Lexus being Lexus, they are not out to build a car with "raw" sports attributes like the G.

    For whatever reason I have not warmed up to the G and it's variants after 5 years. Infiniti is clearly nipping at BMWs heals and has surpassed it in the gadget department, I just can't see myself in one however.
  • It's amazing to me how passionate people get over this argument. I have never owned an Infiniti or BMW but am currently trying to decide between the 335i and G37. Having no "loyalty" to either brand, I'll give you my "objective" viewpoint on this debate on a variety of dimensions (apologies for the length - skip this whole post if you want):

    First and foremost - these cars are VERY similar when you look at the BIG picture (i.e. they are basically the only 4 passenger, luxury-oriented, rear-drive sport coupes on the market under $50K and as one review put, are "chasing the same driver") Every other car in this field is much less squarely "head-to-head" - i.e. they differ on some fundamentally basic characteristic, not simply on quality, performance or personal preference.

    Regarding expert/numerical performance assessments - having read tons of reviews, my conclusion is that the "experts" (myself clearly not included) would be nearly unanimous on the point that the BMW accelerates faster, but not by some monstrous amount. They seem less unanimous on handling, although *most* seem to also prefer the BMW's steering feel, regardless of who comes out on top in slalom or skidpad tests. In general, I have concluded that the BMW would be preferred by nearly all "experts" if driving characteristics were the only differences.

    Regarding "the typical enthusiast" driving impressions... Look I'm no race car driver, but consider myself an enthusiast (only owned one automatic in my life, and it hasn't been to save $800 on the transmission). That said, I can't tell much difference in handling feel or acceleration between these two cars in a spirited (but not daredevil) test drive. I think the Bimmer feels slightly "smoother" and perhaps more responsive, but by such a narrow margin that minor pavement differences between the two test drives (or other small factors) could explain it.

    Regarding the interior quality - my personal opinion is that the G wins on "features" (unless you spend a LOT more on the Bimmer) and that the BMW wins on "quality". The BMW's leather and controls just feel more upscale to me. "Style" is a personal preference, but the G does feel more modern to me inside. I think most reviewers (myself included and probably the public in general) feel that the G35 has the better cockpit save for material quality, but that material quality matters a lot in a luxury interior. Perhaps slight edge to the bimmer, but wouldn't it be nice to have a G35 cockpit/features with BMW materials?

    Price: decided advantage to the Infiniti. Comparably priced, the BMW looks like a stripped down model (you can get a G with nav, leather, advanced key, ipod, heated seats, etc. for practically the price of getting a 335 with leatherette and no options) Comparably equipped, they are about $6-7000 (give or take) apart and the Infiniti dealers (at least in my area) seem more willing to deal by a small margin.

    Regarding resale - the Infiniti clearly wins here (both in % terms and in terms of raw depreciation dollars lost) and there are two reasons for it: 1) it starts out less expensive and 2) its long-term maintenance is (at least perceived to be) less painful to the owner - long after the warranty and free maintenance is gone, people expect Japanese cars to be less expensive to maintain. (As a side note for people who wonder why the coupe does so much better than the sedan on resale - I think it is because there are so many other reliable sporty sedans out there competing in the used car market. If you want a reliable Japanese luxury sport coupe in the used market, you buy the G. If you want a sedan, there is more competition.)

    Image - some people are German "snobs" (I don't mean that to sound as bad as it does). I don't know many people that tout Japanese superiority in luxury or performance vs. the Germans (reliability and value is another story entirely). At the end of the day, the BMW brand holds some additional cache for many people. I have to admit it influences me at least a little. Not that the Infiniti has a poor brand, just a slight nod to the "old school" here.

    Bottom line (I know, it takes a long time to get here)...the Bimmer is the *slightly* "better" car, but the Infiniti is the decidedly better value. That being said, not everyone buys purely on value, especially in a sport coupe. I am personally so torn between these two cars I still don't know which way I am going to lean in the end...

    The head says Infiniti, the heart says BMW...but then the heart says Infiniti plus a nice watch and a vacation... but then the head says buy the BMW and you won't regret it and you can get the watch and vacation later... and the heart chimes in with "just splurge on all of it now" to heck with the which point the head just laughs at the heart. Any of this sound familiar?

    Now that the fence-sitter has said his peace, let the two camps continue to fight the good the fight. (By the way, I actually hope someone can refute half of what I said and come up with a decisive argument for one of these two cars over the other. Then I will be able to sleep again...)
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    Nice post. People are passionate about their cars. One test drive in an E46 a few years ago sold me.

    If we look at the *big* picture, there isn't really any difference in any of the entry level luxury sports sedans, all 6-10 of them depending on how you count. It's only when we get into the details do we notice the differences.

    Some of your impressions match mine, some don't. I did skip the watch, and did take the vacation. Happy car shopping.
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    I'm not sure I can add anything to your analysis that will help you sleep better regarding which car to buy. But let me sincerely compliment you on one of the most articulate and intelligently composed posts I have read here on Edmunds.

    About all I can add for the "head" to consider is that resale becomes less of a value issue the longer you intend to keep the car. Many years ago, I bought the car I wanted (1995 Maxima SE 5-speed) over two that had better projected resale (Accord EX and Camry XLE V6). But I knew that, barring unforseen circumstances, I would be keeping the car 7-8+ years. At which point, resale differences would be relatively minimal. And I made the right choice - we still have the Maxima residing at our second home, ready to spring into life every 6+/- weeks. I never would have felt inclined to keep the slushbox Camry around for that long.

    Good luck on your decision and please post it. I'm sure I'm not the only one who is curious as to the outcome.
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