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Hyundai Sonata vs Honda Accord

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Comments

  • The insurance company would favor Hyundai occupant detection system instead of the accord lack of having a occupant detection in 03 which deploys the passengers airbags, the pretensioners, the insurance company would only have to replace one instead of two or more airbags from the accord.
  • elroy5elroy5 Posts: 3,741
    Would the insurance company favor being injured, over not being injured? I would think not.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,733
    The 2003 Sonata is a design that debuted in 1998. The 2003 Accord was all-new that year. Not a fair comparison. And not the comparision we're talking about in this discussion.
  • Insurance cares more about making money than your life, the sonata has a acceptable rating for 1999, and good for the 2006
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,733
    No, but I wonder why someone can't make a positive comment about the Sonata without someone saying "they work for Hyundai" or "they own stock in Hyundai" or something like that. I don't see you (or others) saying that about people who are Accord fans. Hey, maybe they just like the Accord! And maybe I just see some positive things in the Sonata, vs. the entirely negative picture some would paint.
  • i do not care i am talking about safety features.
  • Because they are still in the past about Hyundai, Accords are overrated, both are damn good cars in my opinion but only the sonata cost almost $5,000 less, you cannot please everyone backy.
  • elroy5elroy5 Posts: 3,741
    Insurance cares more about making money than your life,

    Well, I care more about my life, than anything an Insurance company values. What do you think would cost more, airbags or doctor and hospital bills? Maybe airbags are worth more than your life :surprise: , but not mine.
  • elroy5elroy5 Posts: 3,741
    You can't have it both ways Backy. You love to compare 06 Sonata equipment with 06 Accord equipment (new design vs old design) but it's not fair when I compare the cars in 03? What's the difference? I'm sure you can come up with some lame excuse, so bring it on.
  • I was comparing the 1999 sonata to the 2003 accord, it is nothing wrong with it, in 2006 & 2007 in order to get ESP you had to get the V6, 2006 & 2007 Sonata Has ESP on all engines and trim levels, they should bring back the Value edition Accord that is main problem with Honda, 20,300 k is bit too much for a mid-size 4-cylinder car, i seen a accord EXL AT 4cylinder it was nice but it was $ 26,495 including shipping, the 4 cylinder Sonata limited comes with Automatic Transmission $24,020 including shipping before rebates, before the rebate you save almost $2,500 with the rebate you save nearly 3,500 bucks give me the sonata any day over the accord, the sonata looks better in my opinion.
  • Elroy - Why didn't the previous generation Accord include VSC on on trims, if Honda is so safety conscious? You can't state it was an "old design," as it was standard on the EX V6, but not on the lesser models - unlike Hyundai.

    Frankly, your constant Hyundai - and, every other brand - bashing, and Honda flag waving, is growing rather tiresome.
  • elroy5elroy5 Posts: 3,741
    Elroy - Why didn't the previous generation Accord include VSC on on trims, if Honda is so safety conscious?

    Frankly I don't see the need for VSC, and my 03V6 doesn't have it. It's just extra cost for something I will probably never use.

    Frankly, your constant Hyundai - and, every other brand - bashing, and Honda flag waving, is growing rather tiresome.


    They bash, I bash back, simple as that. If you're tired, you should take a nap.
  • Anyone here who tries(unsuccessfuly) to downplay the Hyundai Sonata's influence on other midsized cars in its class including the Accord are obviously either badge biased(is that gucci?) or ignorant to the advancement in quality of the brand since the late 80's early 90's(when they used mitsubishi engines). No other company offered the things Hyundai offered STANDARD(key word), and company's such as Honda(I would name others but that would be off topic) are throwing in features that they would otherwise make you pay extra for just to stay competative.

    Not to say Honda doesn't make a better overall car than Hyundai and can't compete if they don't match Hyundai, i'm saying they are obviously losing customers(if not a Sonata than what would you buy) due to intelligent marketing, and more car for your money.

    It all works to the consumer's advantage. The ill fated stigma that some people still hold of Hyundai is what keeps the company giving us extra for a value price. Hyundai's presence in the market keeps companies such as Honda on its toes, trying not to lose much market share. Hyundai HAS solidified its position in the market, and are here to stay.
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    I was comparing the 1999 sonata to the 2003 accord, it is nothing wrong with it, in 2006 & 2007 in order to get ESP you had to get the V6, 2006 & 2007 Sonata Has ESP on all engines and trim levels

    When you created this, you wanted to specifically compare the 08 versions of these cars. Do you want to change the subject?
  • I wouldn't say Hyundai as solidified it's position in the market and that others are loosing marketshare to them because every major competitor in this class has sales that are UP (exception Accord)

    The Altima and even the Camry in all its lacklusterness is still gaining sales and marketshare while the Sonata is pretty much remained a stagnent selling car overall. Fleet sales move the Sonata muscle and I think even with this new Accord its sales will go up too.

    I'm not saying the Sonata has not helped change the game and is not competitive, I am saying that the car has NOT YET solidified its place in the marketplace because had it done so, the car would sell better with fewer fleets. It set a standard (for about a year) for safety features and still sets the standards for overall value, but the car doesn't stand out for much else. It has no more "Pizazz" IMO than the Camry. I also do not believe that the Sonata is as refined as the Accord or new Altima overall, but that with it's discounts its a much better value than those cars. The Camry, to me, is a differnt story all together. If any car in this class is overrated, its the Camry. The only Camry of substance to me is the Camry SE or the Hybrid.

    I do believe that this Sonata is the basic foundation for better Sonatas to come and that maybe by the NEXT generation perception overall will have changed so much that the car will be considered more by other consumers. Most folks who I have talked to only consider the Sonata BECAUSE of its value pricing compared to say the CamCordTima. If the Sonata were priced anywhere near it's immediate rivals, it wouldn't sell as well.

    Us enthusiast here are very well informed, but many other car buyers still have a problem with the Hyundai name which is ignorant on their part for lack of research but it's a reality because if not Hyundai could have done the same thing Nissan did with the previous generation Altima when it was released, price it around the same price or HIGHER than the immediate competition. Altimas back in 2003 retailed for higher than the comparable Accord, even after the Accord was redesigned.

    Hyundai perception is changing but the Sonata has not quite Solidified its position in this marketplace because had it done so the car would be selling better and to fewer fleets with fewer discounts on an already price competitve (before discounts) vehicle.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,733
    The difference is that when I brought up the previous-genertion Accord (re its door pulls, braking, and a test drive I did), it was to compare it to the 2008 Accord moreso than the current Sonata. And except for the door pulls (which was a positive comment about the 2003-7 Accord), I was replying to a thread someone else started. So tell you what, I won't mention the previous-generation Accord (or Sonata) here if you don't, OK? Even if it's to praise the old Accord.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,733
    Some facts to consider:

    U.S. Sonata sales in 2004 (last year for prior generation): 104,000

    U.S. sales of current-generation Sonata (started selling in April 2005) as of 10/31/05: 109,512 (about 7 months' sales)

    U.S. sales for Sonata in February 2005 (right before current generation debuted): 9,762 (58% increase over Feb 2004)

    U.S. sales for Sonata in February 2006 (current generation): 13,741 (41% increase over Feb 2005)

    U.S. sales for Sonata in February 2007: 12,137

    So although Sonata sales are down some in 2007 compared to 2006, the Sonata is selling in considerably higher volumes than the previous generation did, despite the fact it costs considerably more than the previous generation. The Sonata has gained sales, and market share, over the life of its current generation. The Accord has lost sales, and share. Maybe the 2008 Accord will change that trend.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,733
    Looks like the 2008 Sonata has a broad base of appeal: top choice for both college students and (from an earlier post) retirees:

    http://www.bizjournals.com/birmingham/stories/2007/08/20/daily23.html?ana=from_r- ss

    The Accord was not on either list. So does that mean it appeals to mostly middle-aged people?

    As for lists, both the Accord and Sonata made C/D's list of top 10 safest cars under $25k, while the Accord (2007) made the top 10 quickest cars under $20k (won't be eligible for 2008 however).
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Posts: 5,525
    Numbers you could use to understand ups and downs on Sonata's sales... (Mid year registration numbers, counted from Oct 1 thru March 31, and since you included February sales, they will be covered in these). Fleet sales for Sonata:
    2005 - 26.5%
    2006 - 50.1% (Explains a big increase over 2005)
    2007 - 27.6% (Explains decrease from 2006)
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,733
    Yes, that helps explain the raw numbers. So with these percentages included, it shakes out like this:

    Feb. 2005: About 7150 Sonatas (2005 models) sold to individuals.

    Feb. 2007: About 8790 Sonatas (current generation) sold to individuals, or about 23% increase from two years before.

    Now that the new Accord is out and other new cars are coming (Malibu, Mazda6), I think Sonata sales may be held down some until the mid-gen refresh this spring.
  • Hyundai realized that the 4 cylinder should be standard on all trim levels for 2008, because of high fuel prices people do not want a V6 as much, they wanted more 4cylinders instead.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,733
    I think this list of improvements coming this March in the Sonata is pretty interesting wrt this discussion (asuming it holds up for the U.S. market):

    *Azera lookin front end
    *Horsepower increase for both 4cyl and V6
    *Improved fuel economy for both engines
    *5 speed auto trans for 4cyl
    *Blue background dashboard lights
    *Improved handling and ride
    *Specific sport handling for SE model
    *Redone interior featuring, more storage,better finish,less plastic looking
    *USB port and i-pod jack
    *Exhaust tuned for performance sound


    Consider where the Sonata currently falls short of the Accord, in fact or in the opinions of some:

    * Front end reminds some of an older Accord: while that isn't a terrible thing by itself, a nose job would take that quibble away. Personally I'd like to see the new nose more like the Genesis' than the Azera's, and I've read other reports that say that is what will happen, so we'll have to see.
    * Engines lag in power behind the Accord: more power coming--how much, we'll have to see. I think the Sonata (and the old Accord) have plenty of power, but for some folks the more power, the better.
    * Improved fuel economy for both engines: the current Sonata is competitive with the new Accord there, just 1 mpg down in some EPA numbers depending on powertrain, but any improvement there is welcome.
    * 5 speed AT for I4: This puts Sonata on par with Accord on the number of cogs in the slushbox, and is probably related to the FE improvement (i.e. the Optima with the same I4 as the Sonata has higher FE with its 5AT).
    * Blue background on dashboard lights: the old-fashioned green lighting is a common complaint, so this is a nice change.
    * Improved handling and ride: handling is a common area of complaint, especially from people who prefer the Accord's handling, so this is a biggie depending on how well it's executed. I just hope Hyundai doesn't take away the quiet and smooth ride in improving the handling.
    * Specific sport handling for SE model: I wonder if this change will involve the active rear suspension that has been available in other markets since 2004?
    * Redone interior: based on the photo, the new center stack is a big improvement over the current one. I don't think the rest of the current interior is all that bad.
    * USB port and iPod jack: Pretty much givens these days.
    * Exhaust tuned for performance sound: Yeah, well, okay, but this is after all a family sedan.

    No mention of optional nav, but Motor Trend reported in August that the Sonata would get nav as an option in 2008.

    So, with all those improvements... pretty interesting matchup against the new Accord, eh?
  • eldainoeldaino Posts: 1,618
    The 2003 Sonata is a design that debuted in 1998. The 2003 Accord was all-new that year. Not a fair comparison. And not the comparision we're talking about in this discussion.

    but its ok to call out the prev gen accord (03-07,) on its braking ability compared with a car that was actually newer? How is that fair? And does that again not include an accord in which this thread is NOT about?

    the accord won that comparo too. Icing on the honda cake. ;)
  • eldainoeldaino Posts: 1,618
    whats growing tiresome is people calling out honda for its lack of inclusion of certain features when there are hordes of other automakers who have done it too.

    and its a moot point, because THIS thread is about the 2008 HONDA ACCORD, which just so happens to have it just as standard as hyundai does. :)
  • Well, the 2008 Accord & the 2008 Sonata! :)

    If I didn't say it, someone else would've. :)
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Posts: 5,525
    It would be delusional to think that others are adding things because Hyundai is setting a benchmark. Hyundai is indeed putting out competent vehicles but let us not get carried away. Accord and Camry are universally considered benchmark, and to a lesser extent, Altima is too. Then there are other players like Mazda6, Aura, G6, Sonata, Fusion, Galant (used to be a bigger player a few years ago) and so on.

    Honda usually waits for a full design to add major features, and its model cycle last five years while minor changes are made with MMC (in fourth year of the five year design cycle). This philosophy is reflected even in Honda’s business plan. Kia probably has a bigger line of vehicles than does Honda (or it feels like it). Honda has long been about lean and efficient processes. They don’t do it all at once, instead add stuff slowly and steadily. I don’t see any difference now.

    Another good example is Honda’s inclusion of pedestrian safety technology in American vehicles. This is not something that shows up on spec sheet or in crash test ratings, and is limited only to European market. But they are design criteria even in exclusively American offerings too.

    Niche players have to be more creative and do things a bit differently. They can afford to be. They don’t have much choice either. For likes of Honda and Toyota, they have to worry about pleasing 400K or more customers every year, trying to attract new ones while ensuring a very high retention rate. The new Accord is clearly designed to appeal to buyers from 1998-2002 era (which was perhaps the most successful generation in terms of sales for Honda). I have read that the new Accord even drives like one in terms of tracking (and that is a good thing).

    Another thing to consider is price sensitivity. With almost 80% of car being manufactured (not just assembly) in the USA, the cost is higher. It is not easy to maintain a balance between cost, quality and features. And what one gets is an incredible package that sets tone on quality. Sure they are not the cheapest, but they can back up their price rather well.

    Can’t wait to test drive the new Accord. I’m sure it is still a Honda! :)
  • eldainoeldaino Posts: 1,618
    thanks grad! ;)

    and good post by robertsmx, once again.
  • eldainoeldaino Posts: 1,618
    Most folks who I have talked to only consider the Sonata BECAUSE of its value pricing compared to say the CamCordTima. If the Sonata were priced anywhere near it's immediate rivals, it wouldn't sell as well.

    what a FANTASTIC point. I asked some hyundai troops if they would still consider their rides if all the deep discounting was no longer available, and if msrp was around the same as the altima, accord, and camry.

    i can't remember if it was c/d or edmunds, but the sonata took 1st place in that comparo, when they anazlyed bang for buck. (a v-6 for 20k for example.)

    But the same people (again, can't remember if it was edmunds or c/d) decided to not play it by price and stack up the cars on dynamics and feel. The sonata i belive was 4th place, if not 3rd.

    I do think hyundai has come a long way, but they are by no means the benchmark, and if any car is going to be used as a way to attack the price premium you pay for the accord, the sonata is not it. Sure, maybe the next gen will be much better and they will finally address driving dynamics, but who knows how far advanced the accord will be by then.

    I didn't realize that so many college grads preferred the sonata. I wonder what school THEY go to. :blush:

    I think backy mentioned the 'older people' who he frequently sees driving accords, and how they probably have no regard for sporting character. The hyundai crowd is no better, and i see plenty of young-ish people driving them. (although its more common amongst the coupes)

    and regardless of who's driving them, its the dynamics of the CAR, not the driver, that determines what kind of 'sportiness' the company who built it put into the car.
  • But the same people (again, can't remember if it was edmunds or c/d) decided to not play it by price and stack up the cars on dynamics and feel. The sonata i belive was 4th place, if not 3rd.

    C/D put the Sonata in third of four, behind Accord (1), Fusion (2), and ahead of the late-model Camry (4). Obviously that's an old comparo.

    When the new Malibu and 6 come out, a big down-and-dirty comparo will be in order from C/D, MT, etc.
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Posts: 5,525
    Average age and average price of an Accord is similar to average age and average price of a typical car in the USA. Coupe buyers are younger (by about five years) compared to sedan buyers and that is true for both Civic and Accord.

    Another fact to consider is that once cars reach a saturation point on sales, there is little growth to be had. Given the competition today, 350-400K units/year appears to be just that. Anything on top will probably need help from fleet market. And when a company has more repeat buyers, its average age will steadily go up as well. I was 23+ when I got my first Honda (Accord). I might consider this new Accord early next year and I will be 34. In the process, I would have skipped a generation (2003-2007) and will be adding to the average age more than I did ten years ago.

    That said, a family sedan makes more sense now than it did ten years ago. But I was always more practicality minded, so sedan was it and stayed away from coupes (I do have family and friends visit regularly and don’t want to force them to back seat of a coupe).

    So, I have yet to understand the fascination with age factor in arguments (or magazines). First of all, always having younger buyers isn’t going to help a company. It would indicate less buyer retention, and buyers that usually want something cheaper. Older buyers are (generally) better financially.

    However, in a struggling economy, the best place to be is either at the bottom or at the top. If gas prices keep going up and economy goes downhill, Civic will gain a lot of Accord buyers. I’m actually also considering the next Honda Fit. So, the Accord will have to beat that little thing. :) (I already have a sedan, so Accord will only be redundant).
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