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Will the Chevy Volt Succeed?

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Comments

  • dmathews3dmathews3 Posts: 1,739
    And of course you don't smoke or drink nor spend your money on something I'd think stupid.
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    Well, Gary, not many middle-class-or-lower families can afford to pay cash for a car.

    Facts of life and all.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 17,317
    I cannot think of a single positive for leasing a vehicle, unless you can write it off to a business.

    Only because you haven't compared the right circumstances. There are times when manufacturers are offering better leasing incentives than purchasing incentives and it is, in fact, the cheaper option of the two. Is it common? No. But it does happen.

    '13 Stang GT; '86 Benz 300E; '98 Volvo S70; '12 Leaf; '14 Town&Country

  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,991
    Don't smoke but do have a drink now and then. :shades: In the news about the Volt:

    “We’ve gone to significant efforts to make sure our dealers are trained, our technicians are trained and even our sales people are trained,” (Volt spokesman Rob) Peterson said. “We want to make sure we set the right expectation for all the new owners.”

    Wait, what?

    We’re doing all of this training to “set the right expectation for all the new owners?”

    Most car purchasers have the expectation that their next car will run like every other car in which they’ve ever been.

    Is this not the case with the Volt? What is the right (lowered?) expectation that 22,000 employees must be trained to set?

    American consumers don’t want managed expectations – they want manageable car payments. The Chevy Volt – without any cash back from We the Taxpayers – costs a painful $41,000.

    Which, by the way, is almost exactly what it costs GM to make it. Meaning it is a non-profit endeavor.

    The Chevy Volt is not a business model – it is Government Motors engaging in ideological automotive farce.

    In February, David Champion – senior director of Consumer Reports auto testing center – told reporters:

    “When you’re looking at dollars and cents, it really doesn’t make a lot of sense. The Volt isn’t particularly efficient as an electric vehicle and it’s not particularly good as a gas vehicle either in terms of fuel economy.

    “This is going to be a tough sell to the average consumer.”


    Government Motors Volt big flop
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,991
    There are times when manufacturers are offering better leasing incentives than purchasing incentives and it is, in fact, the cheaper option of the two. Is it common? No. But it does happen.

    I will re-word my statement. I have never seen a lease offer that penciled out better than paying cash for a car. At least not in the last 20 years. I did lease a new Datsun PU in 1976 to get that smaller payment. Did not save any money. It was ok in the end as it was a real dud of a truck.
  • dmathews3dmathews3 Posts: 1,739
    Since the Volt was in the making long before Government Motors how can you call it their vehicle. At least it is American made by Americans and the best part is the money will help our country instead of someone else. I just can't believe there are so many unamericans here.
  • oregonboyoregonboy Posts: 1,653
    That read like it was written by someone with a political agenda. That indicates bias and that discredits the source. :sick:
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,991
    At least it is American made by Americans and the best part is the money will help our country instead of someone else. I just can't believe there are so many unamericans here.

    That is where you are entirely wrong. The battery cells come from Korea. Those are the most expensive parts in the Volt. The Electric motors and controllers are from China. They are assembled here as a ruse to fool the American public. My Sequoia was 85% US content built in Princeton IN. Way more content than most Government Motors vehicles. My previous 1990, 1993, 1996, 1999 & 2005 GM trucks were mostly from Canada and Mexico.

    Do some research, the Camry and Accord top all Domestics on US content. GM just shut down a factory due to parts from Japan being in short supply.

    Only one GM vehicle makes the top 10 US made vehicles.

    Rank
    Make/Model
    U.S. Assembly Location(s)*
    Rank in July 2009

    1. Toyota Camry
    Georgetown, Ky.; Lafayette, Ind.

    2. Honda Accord
    Marysville, Ohio; Lincoln, Ala.
    -

    3. Ford Escape
    Kansas City, Kan.
    -

    4. Ford Focus
    Wayne, Mich.

    5. Chevrolet Malibu
    Kansas City, Kan.

    6. Honda Odyssey
    Lincoln, Ala.

    7. Dodge Ram 1500
    Warren, Mich.
    -

    8. Toyota Tundra
    San Antonio

    9. Jeep Wrangler
    Toledo, Ohio
    -

    10. Toyota Sienna
    Princeton, Ind.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,991
    That indicates bias and that discredits the source.

    EVERYONE has a bias one way or another. That is human nature. It must be that the writer did not share your bias.
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    Gary - c'mon, man.

    Your source came from an op ed piece at biggovernment.com.

    There's not much more bias that can be involved.

    That's the same as me posting an op ed from treehugger.com.

    See his point now?

    Political Conservatives, who obviously HATE anything GREEN, are of COURSE going to hammer on the Volt.

    That's not an objective opinion.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 17,317
    right. comparing to paying cash is a different story.

    ALTHOUGH, 2 of my leases had less than 2% rate of interest. Even if I had the cash, I probably would opt to keep my cash since it earns better interest than that.

    '13 Stang GT; '86 Benz 300E; '98 Volvo S70; '12 Leaf; '14 Town&Country

  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,991
    Political Conservatives, who obviously HATE anything GREEN, are of COURSE going to hammer on the Volt.

    Conservatives LOVE GREEN. They hate someone stealing their GREEN to build a car that is anything but GREEN, and mostly built in foreign countries. That was the issue involved. Stealing from the tax payers to shore up a company that should have gone out of business then building a car out of Chinese parts and selling it at cost. Then to add insult to injury they steal more tax dollars and subsidize the buyers of this mostly FOREIGN automobile.

    My guess on the reason that they did not sell more of the Volt is cost to operate in CA is more than just buying a Prius or VW TDI.
  • fho2008fho2008 Posts: 393
    SHHHHHHHHHH don't let the cat out of the bag!!!
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    Homers. The DFP are homers when it comes to home-grown cars, and Chevy hit a home with the Volt:

    http://www.freep.com/article/20110414/COL14/104140481/Mark-Phelan-My-suprisingly- -pleasant-week-Volt?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|FRONTPAGE

    The Chevrolet Volt is not like any other car.

    Among countless other differences, the fuel gauge adapts to your performance, like a teacher grading a class on a curve.

    Based on the behavior of its last few drivers, the Volt test car I drove predicted I could cover 30 miles on a charge. I didn't consciously change my driving style, but I got 35 or 36 miles every time. My editor, who squeezes inches out of a gallon of gas like he wrings excess words from my news columns, covered 41 miles on a charge.

    Volt prices start at $40,280, but a smart customer would ignore that figure and concentrate on the three-year monthly lease payment of $350. That's comparable to what you might pay for a conventional car. The Volt I tested had a few options and would lease for $389 a month. Both leases assume $2,500 down and include the $7,500 federal tax credit for electric vehicles.

    The Volt's electric motor produces a relatively mild 148 horsepower, but the 3,781-pound car accelerated confidently on metro Detroit surface roads and highways. That's because electric motors generate their maximum torque -- the force that most directly affects acceleration -- as soon as you depress the accelerator. The Volt's motor generates a healthy 273 pound-feet of torque, more than some big V6 engines.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,991
    Hybrid Car May Have Sparked Garage Blaze
    Fire Destroys A Barkhamsted Garage On Center Hill Road


    BARKHAMSTED, Conn. -- Fire officials suspect an electric hybrid car may have sparked an overnight blaze in a garage in Barkhamsted on Center Hill Road.

    http://www.wfsb.com/news/27541598/detail.html
  • PF_FlyerPF_Flyer Pennsylvania Furnace, PAPosts: 5,871
    Assuming that the Volt itself didn't catch fire, there is certainly a potential problem waiting to happen when leaving something "on charge", especially a higher power item. There certainly could have been wiring problems with their charging setup that caused the fire. The only thing that's really surprising to me is that this happened so soon. The fact that a "charging fire" happened isn't. That's not to say these will be common events (I'd expect them to be rare), but they WILL happen.

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  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,991
    I read another article about the fire. It seems he has an old Suzuki he converted to EV. Both were in the garage at the time of the fire. Li-Ion batteries have a history of over heating when charging. It does not say if he had a fast charger or just the 110 volt standard charger. Two vehicles charging at 220 volt would be a lot of current flow. That could have caused the fire as well. We may never know. Not the kind of publicity Chevy would want right now. Especially after the Cruze steering wheel fell off at 65 MPH.
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel a Certified Edmunds Poster.Posts: 11,722
    We also have to remember that from what I have read the cause of the fire had not been determined so the EV's could have had nothing to do with it.

    The sign said "No shoes, no shirt, no service", it didn't say anything about no pants.

  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,991
    My guess is overloading his wiring with two EVs charging. Not sure how old the house was or what kind of service into the garage. I think to buy a Nissan Volt they go out survey your home and insist on a separate service for the fast charger. When I looked at them the salesman said that was the first step to have their people come out and make sure you have adequate service into your garage.
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    I'm almost betting the house it was NOT the Volt.

    While the cause of the Connecticut garage fire has not yet been determined, many are speculating if the Volt or batteries in the car had anything to do with it.

    However, General Motors Spokesman Rob Peterson said Saturday that the owner also had a Suzuki Samurai in the garage, as well. The Suzuki had been converted by the owner into an electric vehicle.

    ”We suspect the Volt was more the victim of the fire than the cause,” he said.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,991
    It was a 40 year old garage. I would be looking hard at the wiring if it was not upgraded to handle the heavy loads of both EVs. If he was a kluge mechanic which it sounds like with his Suzuki conversion, he may have not put in an upgraded service to the garage. If he was in CA and did not have a licensed electrician do all the work and sign it off with permits his insurance would be canceled. I will be following the story. I am sure GM is doing the same. They don't need any bad publicity.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,991
    ”We suspect the Volt was more the victim of the fire than the cause,” he said.

    GM may have to eat this one. The Volt sitting in the burnt out garage started burning not plugged in. I think Toyota is smart to steer clear of Li-Ion batteries.

    The Hartford Courant reports that the fire reported on in the video above, which first started in a garage holding a new Chevrolet Volt and a converted electric-powered Suzuki Samurai, re-ignited this morning. According to the report

    “The rekindle this morning really adds to the mystery,” Barkhamsted Fire Marshal Bill Baldwin said today.

    Representatives from General Motors, the vehicle’s manufacturer plan, are scheduled to arrive in Barkhamsted this evening to examine the car, Baldwin said.

    The hybrid electric car was not plugged in this morning when the fire rekindled, Baldwin said.

    Investigators still haven’t linked either the fire or the rekindle to either vehicle, but GM’s investigators should be able to help narrow down the cause of the fire.


    http://www.courant.com/business/hc-hybrid-car-possible-fire-20110418,0,94353.sto- ry
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    Gary says, "I think Toyota is smart to steer clear of Li-Ion batteries."

    They aren't. They are testing them in plug-ins.

    And I don't think this "reigniting" means anything at this point.

    Here's what happened:

    1. The double-charge (wiring) or the Suzuki started the original fire.
    2. The initial fire (NOT caused by the Volt) damaged the Volt batteries.
    3. After being damaged, the Volt's "battery fire-protection" technology became null and void.

    This won't be the Volt's fault.

    They tested this car for millions of miles and never had a fire in development.

    I continue to say that no carmaker, ESPECIALLY GM with all it has riding on the Volt, would EVER put out a car with a "randomly combustible" battery.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,991
    I continue to say that no carmaker, ESPECIALLY GM with all it has riding on the Volt, would EVER put out a car with a "randomly combustible" battery.

    Only time will tell if your theories are correct. Toyota was going to have a Plug-in Hybrid by 2007 model using Li-Ion batteries. So far they have not put one out. Some of the companies that have done so have had fires.

    I would have thought GM would have already been out there. Lucky the second fire did not burn their house.

    Chevrolet Volt owners Storm and Dee Connors were reportedly woken up by the sound of fire alarms in their Barkhamsted, Connecticut home for the second time in a week. As you may recall, the Connors family escaped injury when a garage fire consumed both their new Volt and a home-converted electric Suzuki Samurai on April 14. Now, local news outlets are reporting that the remains of the Volt reignited while still in the charred remains of the garage. The vehicle was not plugged in at the time of the second burning.

    Local authorities are currently investigating the source of the re-ignition, though some members of the media-at-large have been quick to single out the Volt as the cause of the first fire, even though fire investigators have yet to speak up with their findings.

    General Motors, meanwhile, is sending its own experts to investigate both incidents. The automaker originally issued a statement urging the public to refrain from leaping to conclusions about the first fire
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    From this page:

    http://www.chevroletvoltage.com/index.php/Volt/let-the-experts-do-their-work.htm- l

    A section of GM's response:

    We take our customers' safety extremely seriously and the Chevrolet Volt has been built to meet all applicable US and international safety standards. To go a little deeper into detail, consider these aspects of Volt design:

    - The Volt's charge cordset is certified and validated to rigorous short-circuit, overload, voltage surge, voltage dips and interruptions, ground fault and other requirements.
    - The communication between the charge cordset and the vehicle charging system on the Volt meets SAE charging standards.
    - At the vehicle level, the Volt has state-of-the-art monitoring and controls to detect and help ensure against malfunctions.
    - Monitoring includes, among other things, AC and DC voltages; charge current; isolation of the high voltage from chassis ground; battery pack cell voltages and temperatures.
    - If a malfunction that is potentially safety-related is detected, charging is immediately terminated and safeguards are invoked to isolate the high voltage system to the battery pack.

    We'll continue to work with the Connecticut fire investigators, the owner and his family to determine what happened.
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    In ref to the Li-Ion batteries,

    both Honda's 2012 HCH and the upcoming Prius Plug-in will have Li-Ion batteries.

    I once again say that these carmakers are not going to be selling batteries which are fire traps.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,991
    We have heard that Toyota was going to sell a Plug-in Hybrid with Li-Ion for years. I will believe it when I see it. Talk is cheap.
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    No, it's a website now, with registration capabilities and all.

    http://www.toyota.com/upcoming-vehicles/prius-plug-in/

    Avail 2012.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,991
    The idea of battery-powered cars is cool. But in reality, the weight, size, cost and durability of the large capacity batteries required to fully power Electric Vehicles (EV) are critical issues that aren't fully solved. Toyota's answer? Small lithium-ion battery packs that complement the proven Prius hybrid-electric power train.

    Is the 13 mile range worth the extra money?
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    As always, the "value" is in the eye of the buyer.

    This Plug-In Prius will be the closest thing to a Volt - EV range plus ability to drive forever once the 'tricity runs out.
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