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Will the Chevy Volt Succeed?

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  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,886
    You know that IPO did not really do the tax payers any good. More of the smoke and mirrors on GM repaying their debt to US.

    A $75 billion gift to GM, the UAW and Volt. Stock is now down to $20 a share. The Volt is a small part of our getting ripped off by GM.

    But that still leaves a $30 billion shortfall (excluding the $45 billion tax break). To get this back, the federal government would have to sell its remaining 365 million shares—about 26.5 percent of company equity—for about $55 per share. But after GM posted its latest earnings report, its stock price dropped to $31, a few dollars below even its IPO price of $33.
  • Not a fan of the bailout. However I have been impressed with what Chevy is doing. The Cruze is a fine vehicle. The Malibu for 2013 will take whats good about the current model and greatly improve the rest. The Equionos is a hot seller. The Sonic is 100% improvement from the Aveo. The trucks will get a huge redesign in 2013 or 14. Lets not forget the Camaro. As for the Volt, with the technology it has, ride and performance it is a very good car. Yes it is priced high. We could send 70% of the supplied parts and assemble outside the US if you want lower price but the value is there. They began investing in the Volt back in Bush's term before the bailout. I want the gov out of it just as much as everyone else does. I just know firsthand what the changes at Chevy is doing for the company and it is great.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,886
    Don't get me wrong, I am happy that GM is getting their act together. I just see the Volt as another segment of the Green agenda that is not well thought out. It is being pushed through for political reasons. With little regard for saving the environment. It is not sustainable. I think the Cruze diesel will be the green car to beat when it gets here.
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Posts: 4,174
    edited October 2011
    ......However I have been impressed with what Chevy is doing. The Cruze is a fine vehicle. The Malibu for 2013 will take whats good about the current model and greatly improve the rest. The Equionos is a hot seller. The Sonic is 100% improvement from the Aveo. The trucks will get a huge redesign in 2013 or 14. Lets not forget the Camaro......

    Um ya...

    link title

    I guess I would say the same if I worked for them too, lol.
  • Do you guys think that the Prius Plug-In and the Volt are really comparable? The Prius Plug-In does not have a gas tank right?
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,886
    Not sure who told you that about the Plug-in Prius. It is a Prius with a slightly larger battery. It does not have the EV only range of the Volt. And will not qualify for the full $7500 tax credit. The larger battery in the Volt accounts for the much higher price.
  • dmathews3dmathews3 Posts: 1,739
    and if you buy the loaded Prius it stickers for about the same as the Volt. And no rebate.
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    Well, no rebate "as of TODAY" but there is talk of getting a rebate program started which would discount around $3,200-$3,500.

    The "loaded" Prius is a better bargain overall than the Volt because it gets 40-45 MPG when running on gas engine, while the Volt gets only around 35 MPG when using it's engine to generate electricity.
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Posts: 10,830
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  • larsb: The loaded Prius is no way a better bargain than the VOlt. The Volt has much better technology in it. First the Volt average is 37MPG. Even when you are in gas generator mode it still runs on electric propulsion with instant torque and very quiet. The fact is the Prius can't go 100% on electricity for a period of time. The Volt can run everyday 100% on electricity. Can't say the same for the Prius. I want to also say I have drove a Prius and a Volt. The Volt while it is heavier it feels lighter in the steering, and handles turns ect. much better. The Volt can get up to 60MPH in less than 8.5 seconds and go up to 100 MPH.. The Volt is in a much higher league than the Prius.
  • If the Prius plug in had no gas tank then it would run 100% on electricity and recieve 100% of the tax credit. It does not and it does run on gas a majority of the time. Might I also say it is built with cheap material.
  • dmathews3dmathews3 Posts: 1,739
    But the Volt is made in the USA granted with some foreign parts but the Prius is 100% made in Japan with foreign parts. No benefit to our economy.
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    benrey23 says, "larsb: The loaded Prius is no way a better bargain than the VOlt."

    I usually do my research before I make a statement, so.....let me share it with you.....:)

    You know I was talking about the new "Plug-in Prius" and not the regular Prius, right? It "CAN" go 100% on electricity for (Toyota estimate) about 15 miles.

    Edumacate yourself:

    http://www.toyota.com/prius-plug-in/

    Rated at 87/49 MPG (mpge and mpg) compared to the Volt which is 93/37. The Plug-In Prius has a gas tank of 10.6 gallons, while the Volt's gas tank is 9.3 gallons.

    Which means in the Plug-In Prius you can go 534.4 miles on a tank of gas (including electric charge) and in the Volt you can only go 384.1 miles when fully charged/fully gassed up.

    So, in essence, since the Volt has larger batteries, you would spend more electricity charging the Volt and because the Volt (when the battery depletes) only gets 37 MPG (versus 49 for the Plug-In Prius) you also spend more GAS driving the Volt.

    And most likely the Plug-In Prius will sell out the door cheaper than the Volt.

    So, in summary:

    1. Cheaper to buy
    2. Cheaper to charge
    3. Cheaper to gas up

    Thus, the PIP (Plug-In Prius) is OBVIOUSLY a better bargain than the Volt.

    Happy EV-ing !!! :shades:
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    dmathews3 says, "... but the Prius is 100% made in Japan with foreign parts. No benefit to our economy."

    That's an Urban myth, and a common but outdated and incorrect belief.

    It would only be true if Toyota did not employ a SINGLE AMERICAN inside our country. But they obviously do:

    Toyota dealerships - managers and mechanics. Sales force who is employed. Clerical force who is employed. IT staff who is employed. Property taxes paid by dealerships and employees. Sales taxes paid. People who drive Toyota vehicles pay vehicle registration fees. They pay gasoline taxes. Through their employment with Toyota they pay income taxes. State income taxes (in some cases.) They buy lunches and dinners and coffee and send their kids to college paying out the nose for over-priced books. Independent garages who work on Toyotas have the same effect as dealerships.

    Buying any "foreign" car puts money into the pockets of plenty of Americans.
  • dmathews3dmathews3 Posts: 1,739
    Depending on your driving if the Pruis is better. My job is just under 15 miles one way. I could drive it for the rest of my life without using any gas. I can't say that for the Prius. Plus since the Prius is totally made in Japan I can't see helping out their economy when ours needs it more. That the reason we are in the mess we are in now. I try to buy as much American as possible and yes my last TV was made oversea's but I can say I have less than 10 pieces of clothes that aren't american. Sure it can be hard but I have educated myself as to who carries what and go by that.
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    edited October 2011
    dmathews3 says, "Plus since the Prius is totally made in Japan I can't see helping out their economy when ours needs it more."

    You would have the answer to that if you had seen this part of my prior post, so maybe you missed it:

    HOW BUYING A TOYOTA HELPS THE AMERICAN ECONOMY

    Toyota dealerships PAY AMERICAN EMPLOYEES A SALARY, USING AMERICAN DOLLARS - Sales managers and mechanics. Sales force who is employed. Clerical force who is employed. IT staff who is employed. The guys who clean the cars. The janitors.

    THESE TOYOTA EMPLOYEES PAY TAXES WHICH ALL AMERICANS PAY: Property taxes paid by dealerships and employees. Sales taxes paid. People who drive Toyota vehicles pay vehicle registration fees. They pay gasoline taxes. Through their employment with Toyota they pay income taxes. State income taxes (in some cases.)

    WITH THE MONEY THESE AMERICAN TOYOTA EMPLOYEES ARE PAID BY TOYOTA, THEY INVEST INTO THE AMERICAN ECONOMY IN THEIR TOWN/CITY:
    They buy lunches and dinners and coffee and send their kids to college paying out the nose for over-priced books. They go to the movies. They go to concerts. They buy groceries and appliances.

    AMERICANS WHO ARE NOT DIRECTLY EMPLOYED BY TOYOTA **STILL** EARN MONEY SERVICING TOYOTA VEHICLES:
    Independent garages who work on Toyotas have the same effect as dealerships - they pay employees who then do all the things I have listed above.

    So, in summary, the unequivocal and irrefutable correct answer is YES buying Toyota cars DOES BOTH DIRECTLY AND INDIRECTLY BENEFIT THE AMERICAN ECONOMY.
  • dmathews3dmathews3 Posts: 1,739
    and if you believe all that bull I have some ocean front property to sell you in Kansas. I can say all of what you said plus the money from the profit stays here and helps us. I bet you drive foreign and need that bull to justify it. :P :P :P :shades:
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    edited October 2011
    As a proud American and ex-Marine, I have "driven foreign" in every car I have owned in 32 years of car ownership. But that has nothing to do with the facts as I presented them. Everything I said is 100% true.

    Can you name one item in that list which is untrue? No, didn't think so.

    The days of "us versus them" AKA "American versus foreign" are over, my friend. That's a prejudice from another era, thankfully bygone.

    I'm sure you have people in your extended family who work for "foreign-based" companies. Ask them if they like having a job.

    P.S. I just noticed you are based in Michigan, so I see where your "anti-foreign" attitude comes from. Your perspective is skewed because of your geographic locale, which is fine with me - but realize it DOES shade your perspective a bit...People who don't rely on the American auto industry to feed their kids every day have a different attitude than those from Michigan...One of my best friends in the Marine Corps was a Michigan guy - great dude.
  • PF_FlyerPF_Flyer Pennsylvania Furnace, PAPosts: 5,859
    Let's dull the personal edge to this right now.

    Thanks for your cooperation and participation.

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  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    Who's getting personal?
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    Well, apparently some other folks were wondering the same thing we were: What is the best value between the Volt and the Prius Plug-In?

    Well, as usual, IT DEPENDS.

    My earlier contention is true that for longer drives, the Prius is a better value.

    However, for SHORTER drives, the Volt is slightly cheaper to power.

    Here is the whole story:

    Chevy Volt is cheaper to drive than the Prius plug-in for shorter distances

    With complete details of Toyota’s Prius Plug-in Hybrid being revealed, Pike Research has found that the Volt is slightly cheaper to drive than the Prius plug-in, as long as you are going less than 70 miles between charges. The calculations were based on gas prices set $3.50 and electricity at 11 cents per kilowatt-hour. At distances greater than 70 miles, however, the Prius PHEV was the more cost efficient option.

    The Prius can go about 14 miles in pure electric mode before its gas tank kicks in, while the Volt has an electric range of about 35 miles (per the EPA). On the other hand, the Prius PHEV will get 49 MPG in hybrid mode, while the Volt gets 37 MPG. This difference eventually is what causes the price shift.

    Of course, neither car is a gas guzzler and the question for customers eventually becomes whether they need more electric driving range, or total vehicle fuel efficiency, as Plug-in cars mentioned.

    There are some other differences as well. The Prius PHEV will be able to drive in HOV lanes in California because of its low total emissions, while Volt owners will not. The Volt’s large battery pack though, will allow its owners to get the full federal tax credit ($7,500), while Prius PHEV owners will only get $2,500.
  • dmathews3dmathews3 Posts: 1,739
    I just knew by your orginal post you never driven a AMERICAN CAR :sick:
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    Have DRIVEN, just have never OWNED.

    But don't forget that the Camry is the "most American" car sold in America.

    http://www.cnbc.com/id/43562127/The_Most_American_Made_Cars_and_Trucks

    American made models for sale right now.

    Toyota Camry (last ranking 1)
    Honda Accord (last ranking 2)
    Chevy Malibu (last ranking 5)
    Ford Explorer (no last ranking)
    Honda Odyssey (last ranking 6)
    Toyota Sienna (last ranking 10)
    Jeep Wrangler (last ranking 9)
    Chevy Traverse (no last ranking)
    Toyota Tundra (last ranking 8)
    GMC Acadia (no last ranking)
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    edited October 2011
    And this:

    http://abcnews.go.com/US/made-america-us-made-car-creates-jobs/story?id=13813091- -

    Then ABC News traveled to the Ford plant in Kansas City, Mo., and the Toyota plant in Georgetown, Ky., to investigate both cars and find out which one creates the most U.S. jobs. To do that, we had to find the answers to these three questions:

    Is the car assembled here?

    Toyota: Yes, it takes more than 6,000 American workers to build the Camrys we buy. Ford: Yes, it takes 2,250 workers to build the Escape.

    How much of the car contains U.S. parts?

    Toyota Camry: 80 percent. Ford Escape: 65 percent.

    How many cars were sold in a given year?

    Toyota Camry: The most pospular seller, 328,000 were sold last year. Ford Escape: Just under 200,000 were sold in 2010.

    Using that formula, the answer might not be what you think.

    The U.S. brand that creates the most American jobs? The Ford Escape, which creates 13 assembly line jobs for every 100 cars sold, based on 2010 sales figures and company supplied information on how many workers actually man the assembly lines.

    That is good, but doesn't top the Kentucky-built Toyota, which creates almost 20 U.S.-based manufacturing jobs for every 100 cars sold.

    In the end, the Stewarts chose a good ol' American Ford Explorer, with 85 percent of its parts made in America. Although it will not create as many jobs as either the Camry or the Escape because the scale of production is smaller, the Stewarts can still be proud to be supporting jobs in this country with their purchase."


    As can we all.
  • dmathews3dmathews3 Posts: 1,739
    When the money helps another country its not American in my book.
  • fushigifushigi Posts: 1,233
    So you care about corporate profits more than workers wages. I won't get into a discussion about what that implies, but the argument about "where the profits go" is without merit. The major automakers, both foreign and domestic in origin, are publicly traded companies. Americans can buy stock in Toyota (NYSE: TM) just as easily as they can Ford. So those profits don't have to actually leave the country.

    (Check your retirement fund investments; you may already own stock in multiple major automakers through them.)
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Posts: 4,174
    And the Volt apparently has about 40% US content...

    Then there are the battery cells which are sourced from LG Chem in Korea, the elactric motors which come from Mexico and global ICE that comes from Austria... :sick:
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,886
    Another way to look at the Volt. We gave LG Chemical Korea $300 million to build a battery assembly plant in Holland MI. They have 150 workers to assemble the Lithium cells manufactured in Korea. Less than 4000 Volt cars have been delivered to customers. So there are two ways to look at the Volt. We spent $2 million per job or $75,000 per battery. Anyway you cut it the Volt will cost the tax payers a fortune. And they are falling apart in people's driveways. Government Motors. :sick:
  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 17,199
    When the money helps another country its not American in my book.

    Interesting perspective. But then there is no such thing as a new American car, in your book. So if you wish to buy an American car, you are out of luck. Will you be walking from now on?

    '13 Stang GT; '86 Benz 300E; '98 Volvo S70; '12 Leaf; '14 Town&Country

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