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Will the Chevy Volt Succeed?

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  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 17,226
    Because, again, this was tested. Cars with much more power than a Prius or Volt intentionally had their throttles pinned while stomping on the brakes and the cars WERE able to stop. Did it take longer? Yes, of course, but it was still a matter of feet, not miles, and we're talking about not being able to stop at all (the original story we started this with).

    '13 Stang GT; '86 Benz 300E; '98 Volvo S70; '12 Leaf; '14 Town&Country

  • dmathews3dmathews3 Posts: 1,739
    Since you list 99% foreign cars owned you have no credit here. :P :P :P :P :shades:
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,909
    I may not have any credit. Just tax dollars down the toilet financing the GM Volt. :P :blush: :shades:
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,909
    AP News Break: GM willing to buy back Volts

    NEW YORK (AP) -- General Motors will buy Chevrolet Volts back from any owner who is afraid the electric cars will catch fire, the company's CEO said Thursday.

    In an exclusive interview with The Associated Press, CEO Dan Akerson insisted that the cars are safe, but said the company will purchase the Volts because it wants to keep customers happy. Three fires have broken out in Volts after side-impact crash tests done by the federal government.

    Akerson said that if necessary, GM will recall the more than 6,000 Volts now on the road in the U.S. and repair them once the company and federal safety regulators figure out what caused the fires.

    "If we find that is the solution, we will retrofit every one of them," Akerson said. "We'll make it right."


    http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_VOLT_BATTERY_FIRE?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME- &TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2011-12-01-14-56-43
  • dmathews3dmathews3 Posts: 1,739
    Better than you sending your money to another country because you think more of them then your own country.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,909
    No argument there. I am not a fan of Foreign aid. That said, I am not in favor of bailing out loser companies. Letting GM fail would make room for real car companies like Ford, VW and Toyota. The US has plenty of American made vehicles to pick up the slack left by GM dying. And we know they would still exist in China. Where a lot of the Volt parts come from. Lithium Cells from Korea. Engines from Austria. The Volt is a truly Global car.

    GM and the Volt will cost US more than all the foreign aid given to Israel over the last 20 years. Just more corporate welfare making the 1% richer.

    My guess is the USA content of the Volt is far less than my Toyota Sequoia.
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    Chill Pill on the Volt fires issue......Here are the FACTS about CAR FIRES:

    http://www.technologyreview.com/blog/mimssbits/27397/

    Much-Needed Perspective on the GM Volt Battery Fires
    250,000 vehicles catch fire on America's roads every year, and exactly none of them are electric.

    No electric car has ever caught fire under real-world conditions, but the battery packs of two Chevy Volts have in test crashes. The controversy that followed could have been predicted, unfortunately. For all our talk of embracing innovation, there is always someone ready to declare that the growing pains of disruptive new technologies are in fact their death knell.

    That's why I created the two graphs above, based on data from the Bureau of Transportation Statistics and the National Fire Protection Association. Every year, more than 250,000 vehicles catch fire, largely because every gallon of gasoline contains roughly 100 times as much energy as a kilogram of TNT.

    Every year, on average, 440 people are killed and more than 1500 injured when their conventional vehicle catches fire. We're all driving what are essentially giant liquid-fueled bombs with wheels attached, and the only reason we never have to think about it are the many decades and extraordinary measures that stand between us and the earliest conventional vehicles.

    Most things that can make their energy density readily available are going to carry with them the risk of runaway reactions, whether that's a short circuit or fire and explosion. Poorly made lithium-ion laptop batteries that aren't so different from the cells in a Chevy Volt have caught fire before, and might again. And it must be granted that there are a tiny number of electric cars on the road compared to conventional vehicles.

    However, numbers like the above -- and the fact that GM thinks it has a fix for the Volt that will make current and future models more or less immune from this problem, demonstrate that the issue of vehicle fires in electric cars is not just much ado about nothing, but a complete inversion of the logic all new car buyers should adopt when considering the safety of electric vehicles.


    So let's not put the Volt in the "failed experiment scrap pile" QUITE yet. Until someone invents a gasoline-only car which cannot catch fire, the gas cars are FAR FAR more likely to burn you up than a Volt will EVER be.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,909
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,909
    Chevy Volt Costing Taxpayers Up to $250K Per Vehicle

    If those manufacturers awarded incentives to produce batteries the Volt may use are included in the analysis, the potential government subsidy per Volt increases to $256,824.

    http://www.michigancapitolconfidential.com/16192

    We could have bought and given away 75,000 Volts for the $3 billion in tax payer subsidies. Where is the loot?
  • dmathews3dmathews3 Posts: 1,739
    edited December 2011
    I remember way back when I bought my first VCR. It cost me well over $800. Article in the paper as they were quite new said the orginal VCR's when they first came out were $50,000. Or my first 386 IBM computer was over 3K, now you can get a computer for less than $300 that would make my 386 look like a Model A. Point being electric cars will get cheaper and cheaper.
    Besides if the Gov. can get more and more electric cars on the road we the people will win. Less tax money spent on pollution for one thing, less money spent on oil companies or Wars in the Oil Countries. Its a win win deal.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,909
    The tax payers did not subsidize the first VCR or PC. When the government gets involved it always produces waste and corruption. This isn't the first foray by Government Motors into EVs. Don't forget the waste in the EV-1 program. And most of that money on the Volt will end up in foreign countries like China.

    You think EVs will be cheaper and cheaper. Well resources are becoming more and more difficult to acquire so you may be hoping that Bolivia will sell US cheap Lithium, but I would not count on it. We know China is not interested in selling their Rare Earths. So most of an EV cost will be from finished motors, electronics and storage cells made in foreign countries.

    What is the current US content of the Volt????
  • dmathews3dmathews3 Posts: 1,739
    Your comment by saying Government Motors tells me a lot. You are against GM no matter what. You talk about the EV1. Did you realize that car got as good of mileage way back then as the Leaf does now with all the latest and greatest technology. But battery technology will get better and better. They say the first laptops if they used one of todays batteries would last less than 5 minutes before going dead compared to the same battery in todays laptops running for hours. Don't you think the samething will happens with the cars? But then again you are against GM so no matter what anyone says you have already made up your mind.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,909
    I have NiCad batteries in my Makita drills that are 10 years old and still going strong. I have a hard time getting a Li-Ion battery in a laptop to last two years. Yes you get more power with less weight. Will the Volt batteries still be good in 10 years? I bought my first laptop in 1984 and the battery was still good when my son sold it to a collector 15 years later.

    Now to cost. Replacement batteries for my newest laptop are more than a 10 year old laptop with a NiMH battery. So no I don't believe they will get cheaper. I believe they will continue to go up in price. Some technologies do get cheaper, batteries are not one of them. I am paying a lot more for 9 Volt batteries today than I was 5 years ago.

    And I was not in favor of the bailout of GM & C. I am not convinced it was in the best interest of the whole nation. I think that GM is still making the same poor management decisions that got them in trouble in the past.
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Posts: 10,851
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  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,909
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,909
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,909
    Some Chevrolet dealers are turning down Volts that General Motors wants to ship to them, a potential stumbling block as GM looks to accelerate sales of the plug-in hybrid.

    For example, consider the New York City market. Last month, GM allocated 104 Volts to 14 dealerships in the area, according to a person familiar with the matter.

    Dealers took just 31 of them, the lowest take rate for any Chevy model in that market last month. That group of dealers ordered more than 90 percent of the other vehicles they were eligible to take, the source said.

    In Clovis, Calif., meanwhile, Brett Hedrick, dealer principal at Hedrick's Chevrolet, sold 10 Volts last year. But in December and January he turned down all six Volts allocated to him under GM's "turn-and-earn" system, which distributes vehicles based on past sales volumes and inventory levels.

    GM's "thinking we need six more Volts is just crazy," Hedrick says. "We've never sold more than two in a month." Hedrick says he usually takes just about every vehicle that GM allocates to him.

    Kill the Volt
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    Again, all those who make a "BIG DEAL" of the Volt fires can take a chill pill:

    Volt is Safer (from a "it might catch on fire" perspective than the car you are driving right now.

    Back in November, the Internet was in a flurry about a fire that had engulfed a Chevy Volt that had undergone a particularly aggressive crash test, and then had been set aside on a lot without following GM’s battery-draining protocol. Two other fires later occurred in relation to other safety tests. Though the news seemed to give fodder to EV skeptics and other friends of the fossil fuel industry, the fact of the matter was that the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration said that it had no reason to believe the Volt was “at a greater risk of fire than gasoline-powered vehicles.” I called the whole thing a tempest in a teapot.

    And not to say I told you so, but I told you so. The Associated Press reports that the government has concluded its safety investigation into the Volt, concluding that, indeed, “the Volt and other electric cars don’t pose a greater fire risk than gasoline-powered cars.” In other words, the NHTSA has affirmed its confidence in the car, after studying the Volt for months. If there are any skeptics out there still, it’s time to put their skepticism to rest (or find some other basis for their attacks on EVs; this fellow seems to think rants about “Socialist progressives who don’t understand anything about economics” is about as rhetorically sound as calling the car the “Volt Fire Trap”).

    Still, under the theory that it’s better safe than sorry, GM announced earlier in the month its intention to fortify 12,000 existing Volts with steel plates that would shield batteries during crashes like the ones that resulted in the crash-test fires. GM’s offering these improvements for free, even though NHTSA didn’t demand a recall itself.

    The Volt is shaping up to be something of a critical success, but a commercial disappointment. The car has racked up a bunch of awards and favorable reviews. But sales have been a little lackluster--to such a degree that the site 24/7 WallSt.com declared it one of the worst product flops of 2011. (It seems fairly ridiculous to lump the Volt in with Netflix’s surreal and swiftly-aborted Qwikster, but the author did so.) It hasn’t been all bad news for the Volt of late; the New York Times recently reported that the U.S. Embassy in France was adding a few to the lineup, promoting the EV brand abroad and joining Obama’s call to “green” the federal government.

    “We have confidence in the cars,” said an embassy official. So do I, and so should you.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,909
    Makes sense to put them in all the Embassies around the world. The Tax Payers still hold 32% of GM. It is the least we can do to take them around the World. Rather than buying Mercedes for our Embassy officials to drive. Probably save some tax dollars.
  • dmathews3dmathews3 Posts: 1,739
    I haven't seen you whinnying bout Ford or Mazna who's cars are being recalled as a fire hazard and they don't even have to be involved in a wreak. Take you and your foreign car and go somewhere else. :P
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,909
    Well if you read my post I was advocating putting the Volt in our embassies. But in reality I would rather they buy Fords as that is the stock I hold.

    By the way my Toyota Sequoia has more USA content than the Chevy Volt. So you can have those Chinese/Korean Content POC Volts. :P

    By the way is your dealership accepting all the Volts offered, or are you just being a jerk?
  • PF_FlyerPF_Flyer Pennsylvania Furnace, PAPosts: 5,860
    Let's not let this slip into a personal beef please.

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  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,909
  • dmathews3dmathews3 Posts: 1,739
    You hold Ford stock but you drive a Toyota. That tells me what you really are. Your word doesn't hold water with me. It may have more american content but the profits don't do a darn thing to help out America. It all goes back to Japan. Me I'll support the country I was born in and served in. I try to buy as much as possible from companies that are owned by americans. Maybe if more people did we wouldn't be where we are now. But then again you wouldn't have anything to whine about.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,909
    edited January 2012
    Buying Ford Stock when it hit $1.76 was a no brainer. At the time I bought the Sequoia I owned a Ford Ranger PU that was a POC. Gutless V6 so did not want another one. I do like some of the newer Fords like the Edge and Flex. When I replace this Sequoia it will be with a Diesel SUV. I am waiting until someone gets their head out of their behind and builds a 4 cylinder diesel SUV. The rest of the World have SUVs with diesels that get 35-40 MPG on the highway. If one of the D3 offered one I would buy it. I also try to buy American. And I totally disagree with your misconception as to where the money goes. As far as I can tell GM USA is NOT making enough profit to pay any taxes. They are making money in the EU and China and that money stays off shore. Just as Apple, Cisco, Microsoft and hundreds of other American brands keep money generated outside the USA in offshore accounts. The purchase of my Toyota Sequoia likely put more money into our tax pile than if I had bought a GM back in 2007. They lost $40 billion that year and were a drain on the economy. I am not convinced it was a wise decision to bail them out. Only time will tell. They seem to be doing better with what they are making outside of the silly Volt.
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Posts: 10,851
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    Please include your daytime contact information and a few words about the decision you made.

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  • Hi Gagrice – Yes, it sure seems you have something against GM and the Volt. I wish you and other people with similar feelings would look at the Volt without coloring it with politics. Simply look at the car and evaluate it on its own merits. I’d just like to review some of your past Volt comments:

    1)The cartoon about the Volt turning into a lemon - Everything I have read and seen implies anything but that. The Volt is reliable, recommended by CR, and the highest ranking car when it comes to customer satisfaction. How do those facts get spun into calling a Volt a lemon?

    2)POC Volts – It’s obvious to me that you have not seen a Volt in person, much less gotten inside or driven one. I have. It is attractive inside and out. It contains nice materials, pretty color schemes, and gushes solid engineering. It handles well and is fun to drive. You might not see things as I do, but calling the Volt a POC is in no way accurate.

    3)Tax dollars down the toilet financing the GM Volt – do you have any data showing how many tax dollars went into Volt development? Since the Volt was developed 4 to 5 years before any government bailout, I find your statement hard to believe. In message 860, you said you believed it was $4 billion. “Believing” should have nothing to do with it. If you could prove that $1 of taxpayer money went into Volt development, then ask Volt owners if they think that money went down the toilet.

    4)The silly Volt – I cannot comprehend how anyone can say that. I have one real world example. A friend was given a Volt to drive for the weekend by his dealer. The first trip took him 48 miles before the gas engine came on. This guy spent approximately $1.30 to recharge the Volt the night before. That’s about 36.9 miles/dollar. This guy’s other car is a Prius that supposedly gets 51 miles per gallon. At $3.30 per gallon, that’s 15.4 miles/dollar. So, the Volt is about 2.4 times better on gas than the Prius for this one example. Please list how many cars besides the Volt and the Leaf that can get the equivalent of 100+ MPG. After you exhaust your search, do you still think “silly” is the correct word?

    5)The Volt cost taxpayers $250K per vehicle – I read on the Volt Forum somebody’s analogy of this. Take the $1.3 billion Cowboys stadium. If you take that cost and divide by the first year’s home games, you have a huge cost per game, but if you divide by the number of games in 10 years, the cost is way down. The $250K number came from dividing by some 6000 Volts, without regard to how many cars will benefit from tax dollars in , say, 10 to 20 years.

    6)Volts are falling apart in people’s driveways – where in the world did that come from??? That sounds like N. Cavuto on Fox. There is no evidence anywhere to support that statement.

    I could go on. Instead, let’s just evaluate the car on its own merits. Forget politics and GM hatred. The Volt is not for everyone, but for those within the daily EV only range, the Volt can keep us from buying so much oil from those that hate us. The choice might not be economically feasible, but the outcome of getting more electric cars on our roads can really help.
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    Well. Said. !!! :) :shades: :shades:
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,909
    You forgot to debunk or were not able to the fact that about 70% of the Volt content is not made in the USA. Which means a lot of our tax dollars went to offshore companies to provide parts we are unable to manufacture in the USA. I would think at a time when so many Americans are out of work the government would only be subsidizing our own manufacturing base. So I am not convinced the Volt was a good way to spend my tax dollars. Now this is the latest on the Volt.

    Although it happened back in September, 2011, it appears many American taxpayers are unaware that General Motors struck a deal in Shanghai wherein the company has agreed to develop an electric vehicle (EV) platform with its longtime Chinese partner SAIC.

    What else was included in this deal? GM has agreed to effectively move all future EV development to China. It could also mean that production of the vehicle itself will be moved overseas.

    The agreement is the result of the Chinese government coercing foreign automakers into giving Chinese companies the EV technology they lack, according to an Associated Press report. Unsurprisingly, some U.S. lawmakers have voiced concerns that the deal is little more than a “shake down” from the Chinese to get GM’s Volt secrets. GM has denied reports that it will hand over the intellectual property underlying the Volt.

    GM Vice Chairman Steve Girsky, in a conference call from Shanghai, said that neither SAIC nor the Chinese government have demanded Volt technology but that any future EV developments would, of course, draw on GM’s Volt “experience and technology,” according to a USA Today report first published in September, 2011.


    http://www.theblaze.com/stories/after-receiving-bailout-gm-may-move-volt-product- ion-to-china/
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