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Will the Chevy Volt Succeed?

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  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,678
    Time to bury the Volt before we waste more tax dollars propping it up.
    September sales 723 units. Probably sold to Chevy dealers in the states where they are not available.

    http://media.gm.com/content/Pages/news/us/en/2011/Oct/gmsales/_jcr_content/right- par/sectioncontainer/par/download/file.res/Deliveries%20SEPT%202011.pdf
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    At $7,500 tax credit per pop, those 723 cars represent $5,422,500 in tax money handed out just in Sept....

    But, as is my style, I must mention that the Volt is preferable to the "only runs on electric" options we have, since it has no "range anxiety" issue. It can go across the country just like a regular car.

    The Plug-In Prius coming in 2012 will be a help for the Volt too, because it will help people understand how a car can be BOTH an electric and a gas car.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,678
    The tax credit is chicken feed when talking Volt. How about the $300 million for a battery assembly plant? It was just a political move as we are not going to manufacture the batteries. Only assemble them for the Volt. One article tags each Volt at $197,000 in subsidies. To add insult to injury so far most of the Volts have been sold to other Chevy dealers who use the tax credit. I don't expect the Prius Plug-in to do much better if the price ends up on the high end with a VERY SHORT 10 mile EV range.
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    Gary says, "To add insult to injury so far most of the Volts have been sold to other Chevy dealers who use the tax credit. "

    Gary, be careful there. You took one little story and ran with it, facts be darned? That particular right-wing-fueled falsehood has been debunked.

    “I recently set out to determine how honest General Motors is being when it claims that demand for the Chevy Volt is exceeding supply,” the author wrote, “It was not hard to discover that this is not the case as retail sales remain dismal.”
    He goes on to cite Volts for sale on eBay with no bids, six dealers he said he found with unsold Volts within 70 miles of his location, and a couple dealers that have unjustifiably taken the $7,500 tax credit for themselves. These dealers, the writer contends, bought the car, claimed the tax credit, then turned around and put essentially new cars up for sale as used at inflated prices – with no credit available to the buyer.
    And indeed, it does appear true that a few dealers have tried charging almost as much for a used Volt as a new one. At least one has even tried for over MSRP.
    It is not true GM endorses this or is at fault because what a few bad apples do.
    After its one-two rhetorical uppercut last week, the NLPC followed through with a second piece yesterday reasserting its previous allegations, and defending itself with jabs against those who disagreed and said the NLPC was just a biased, right wing hate group.
    “This seems to be a popular political tactic used when certain ideologies are presented with criticism; ignore the facts and attack the source,” the NLPC writer said.


    Price on the Prius Plug-In starts at $29K. And that's 13 miles on EV. Which for me would be most of my commute.

    http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/car/10q2/2012_toyota_prius_plug-in_hybrid-fi- rst_drive_review

    From one real-world tester:

    I am driving a test Prius PlugIn car and have been for six weeks. This is a great car...goes approx 15 miles as an EV, recharges on 110 in three hours, 1.5 hrs if 220 outlet. Currently we are operating 27% in electric only and 73% in hybrid mode and are getting 66.5 mpg. These are from the various readouts that are part of this car. Have three more weeks until I have to turn car in, but I am REALLY going to miss driving "my" electric Prius! Will be first in line when they rollout, and I expect at least 40 electric only operation when they are sold. Roy Boyer/Boulder CO 7/28/11

    'Yota is pricing the Plug-In Prius for a successful launch.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,678
    You must have missed this post a few days ago. There are more Volts for sale in the USA today than have been sold since it hit the market.

    Volts 4 sale

    Every thing I have read including the article you listed from last year has the Plug-in Prius base price at $33k with a top of $39k.

    As far as a credit, according to the IRS the Plug-in Hybrid must have at least 5 KWH battery. The Prius only has a 4.4 KWH battery.

    Internal Revenue Code Section 30D provides a credit for Qualified Plug-in Electric Drive Motor Vehicles including passenger vehicles and light trucks. For vehicles acquired after 12/31/2009, the credit is equal to $2,500 plus, for a vehicle which draws propulsion energy from a battery with at least 5 kilowatt hours of capacity, $417, plus an additional $417 for each kilowatt hour of battery capacity in excess of 5 kilowatt hours. The total amount of the credit allowed for a vehicle is limited to $7,500.

    http://www.irs.gov/businesses/article/0,,id=219867,00.html
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    Happy to edumacate you, Amigo:

    Prius Plug-in starts at $32K. Here is the website:

    http://www.toyota.com/prius-plug-in/

    No $7500 IRS plug-in tax credit will be available for the Prius. No one at 'Yota has ever said that it would be....BUT it might be up for a $2500 tax credit, depending on what the IRS decides to give:

    Will the Prius Plug-in qualify for the federal tax incentive?
    While the federal government has yet to certify the Prius Plug-in for the incentive, purchasers of a Prius Plug-in vehicle may be able to take advantage of a Federal tax credit estimated to be approximately $2,500.

    QUALIFIED PLUG-IN ELECTRIC DRIVE MOTOR VEHICLE TAX CREDIT
    August 2011

    Individual purchasers of a Prius Plug-in vehicle may be able to take advantage of the Federal Qualified Plug-in Electric Drive Motor Vehicle tax credit. The Prius Plug-in vehicle tax credit is estimated to be approximately $2,500. However, the Internal Revenue Service has not yet reviewed or confirmed the specific amount of credit, so at this time there are no assurances any purchasers will be able to take advantage of any specific amount of the credit, from zero credit up to the above estimate.

    To qualify for the potential Plug-in tax credit:
    1. The Plug-in vehicle must be new. Used vehicles will not qualify.
    2. The Plug-in vehicle must be purchased. Leased vehicles will not allow the lessee to take advantage of the Plug-in tax credit.
    3. The Plug-in vehicle use is primarily in the United States.
    4. The purchaser must retain appropriate documentation showing the purchase of the vehicle and the date of the delivery of the vehicle.

    For personal use vehicles, the Plug-in vehicle tax credit is treated as a nonrefundable personal credit and is limited by the taxpayer's amount of tax liability for the year the car is placed in service. Individual purchasers and corporations who have business use of the Plug-in vehicle are subject to different tax laws that may also substantially reduce or eliminate the above benefits.

    All persons considering the use of this important Federal Plug-in vehicle tax credit should consult with their own tax advisors to determine the specific amount of benefit, if any, that they may be able to claim on their federal income tax returns. Your tax advisor may also have further information on the many state and local tax incentives that may be available to Plug-in vehicle owners.

    The above summary is based on the federal income tax law in effect as of summer 2011, and individual tax implications may change, without notice, depending on subsequent changes in the federal tax law or further action by the Internal Revenue Service.

    Please find more information at the Internal Revenue Service (http://www.irs.gov/).
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,678
    Don't count on any of those $32k Prius to show up on the lots. It will more than likely be $35k+ models. And the reason I mentioned the TC is several publications have speculated on the Tax credit of $2500. There is a discrepancy between the Fuel Economy site and the law posted on the IRS site. As with all TCs I will believe it when I see it on my return.

    Prices for the Prius Plug-in Hybrid start at $32,000 and the top-of-the-line Advanced will cost $39,525; reservations for both start next month. Most buyers should be able to get a federal tax credit of $2,500 to ease the sting.

    http://www.autoblog.com/2011/09/28/2012-toyota-prius-plug-in-first-drive-review/-

    That said, any reason to think the Volt will survive here in the USA? Or will it become an import from China as GM has speculated?
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    The Volt will survive. GM has too much of an investment in it.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,678
    GM has little or NO investment in the Volt. It is all our tax dollars my friend.
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    Um, yeah, only SOME of it. Some of the investment happened after their IPO.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,678
    You know that IPO did not really do the tax payers any good. More of the smoke and mirrors on GM repaying their debt to US.

    A $75 billion gift to GM, the UAW and Volt. Stock is now down to $20 a share. The Volt is a small part of our getting ripped off by GM.

    But that still leaves a $30 billion shortfall (excluding the $45 billion tax break). To get this back, the federal government would have to sell its remaining 365 million shares—about 26.5 percent of company equity—for about $55 per share. But after GM posted its latest earnings report, its stock price dropped to $31, a few dollars below even its IPO price of $33.
  • Not a fan of the bailout. However I have been impressed with what Chevy is doing. The Cruze is a fine vehicle. The Malibu for 2013 will take whats good about the current model and greatly improve the rest. The Equionos is a hot seller. The Sonic is 100% improvement from the Aveo. The trucks will get a huge redesign in 2013 or 14. Lets not forget the Camaro. As for the Volt, with the technology it has, ride and performance it is a very good car. Yes it is priced high. We could send 70% of the supplied parts and assemble outside the US if you want lower price but the value is there. They began investing in the Volt back in Bush's term before the bailout. I want the gov out of it just as much as everyone else does. I just know firsthand what the changes at Chevy is doing for the company and it is great.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,678
    Don't get me wrong, I am happy that GM is getting their act together. I just see the Volt as another segment of the Green agenda that is not well thought out. It is being pushed through for political reasons. With little regard for saving the environment. It is not sustainable. I think the Cruze diesel will be the green car to beat when it gets here.
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Posts: 4,158
    edited October 2011
    ......However I have been impressed with what Chevy is doing. The Cruze is a fine vehicle. The Malibu for 2013 will take whats good about the current model and greatly improve the rest. The Equionos is a hot seller. The Sonic is 100% improvement from the Aveo. The trucks will get a huge redesign in 2013 or 14. Lets not forget the Camaro......

    Um ya...

    link title

    I guess I would say the same if I worked for them too, lol.
  • Do you guys think that the Prius Plug-In and the Volt are really comparable? The Prius Plug-In does not have a gas tank right?
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,678
    Not sure who told you that about the Plug-in Prius. It is a Prius with a slightly larger battery. It does not have the EV only range of the Volt. And will not qualify for the full $7500 tax credit. The larger battery in the Volt accounts for the much higher price.
  • dmathews3dmathews3 Posts: 1,739
    and if you buy the loaded Prius it stickers for about the same as the Volt. And no rebate.
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    Well, no rebate "as of TODAY" but there is talk of getting a rebate program started which would discount around $3,200-$3,500.

    The "loaded" Prius is a better bargain overall than the Volt because it gets 40-45 MPG when running on gas engine, while the Volt gets only around 35 MPG when using it's engine to generate electricity.
  • A reporter is looking to interview someone who lives in California and who bought a Chevy car (not truck) in the past year. Please email pr@edmunds.com by Monday, October 17, 2011 if you care to share your story. Please include your phone number, the make/model you drove before and the type of Chevy you bought.

    Need help navigating? kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.

  • larsb: The loaded Prius is no way a better bargain than the VOlt. The Volt has much better technology in it. First the Volt average is 37MPG. Even when you are in gas generator mode it still runs on electric propulsion with instant torque and very quiet. The fact is the Prius can't go 100% on electricity for a period of time. The Volt can run everyday 100% on electricity. Can't say the same for the Prius. I want to also say I have drove a Prius and a Volt. The Volt while it is heavier it feels lighter in the steering, and handles turns ect. much better. The Volt can get up to 60MPH in less than 8.5 seconds and go up to 100 MPH.. The Volt is in a much higher league than the Prius.
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