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Subaru Crew - Future Models II

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  • bluesubiebluesubie Posts: 3,497
    I experienced it when I drove my cousin's Grand Am GT. I let out a big "Whoa!" Man, am I spoiled with AWD. :-)
    Dennis
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    V8 torque + FWD = recipe for torque steer. Cadillac always seems to be a step behind the trend of the times - most luxury cars are going RWD.

    Even the Passat has torque steer, though VW hypes the "virtual axis" front suspension.

    Put simply, you're simply asking the front wheels to do too much! Carry 60% of the weight, steer, and oh, by the way, apply torque to the pavement at the same time!

    Soobs divide the traction duties, and the weight distribution is better to boot.

    -juice
  • lucien2lucien2 Posts: 2,984
    I'm with Colin, it ain't just AWD. Tauruses don't do it, neither do Camrys or Accords, because they have put the money into the engineering Colin described. Only in high HP cars is it acceptable, IMHO, like the 9-3 Viggen
  • paisanpaisan Posts: 21,181
    The caddys refered to above are kinda high horsepower and torque... I just hate FWD in general...

    -mike
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,698
    More problems for Ford...

    Besides just having the 5th recall (the largest yet!) for the Escape, it's now reported that the all-new OHC 4.6 alloy block V-8, scheduled for the soon to be released 2002 Explorer 4-door has been delayed due to problems.

    Will it ever end??

    Bob

    http://www.blueovalnews.com/
  • locke2clocke2c Posts: 5,038
    High HP? Uh yeah, if you consider 275-300 HP "kinda high". ;-)

    For the weight of the vehicle and the size of the tires, it shouldn't have the torque steer problem that it does if it were engineered properly. A better solution though would be RWD.

    -Colin
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,698
    A better solution still would be AWD. :-{)

    Bob
  • I got to drive my moms GT Limited to class today cause the Old's had some stalling problems yesterday (It doesnt happen to me for some reason, just when other people drive it) and plus it was raining today, and I do love the AWD in rain :)

    Anyway, theres this zig-zag on a 4 lane road I go on every day (S curve, 35mph, very tight) and the Achieva goes about 50-55 before it starts seriously peeling out and the front of the car starts to give away (its really scary too, the opposite of fishtailing) while the '00 Legacy can go about 60 without peeling out.

    However, the Legacy is seriously out-powered by the achieva (3.3 V6 vs. 2.5 H4) which I could easily beat a stock RS with (And these civics just love challenging me, and I just play along staying right next to them without even trying... its hilarious). The Legacy has this really nasty "stall" thing it does when accellerating from a stop (Its impossible to peel out with...), but its got good enough umph when accellerating when your already moving for sure... Anyone notice how funky the steering wheels position is though? You just cant get close enough without seriously bending your legs (im 5'10"), its hard to get in a good brasive posture... (the slick leather and flatness of the seat backs dont help)

    Dont get me wrong, the Legacy is a damn good car, in fact, I got a little to close to a curbing while parking and the car just hopped right up without hesitation (!) like it wasnt even there... I still like the RS better, and cant wait for the new Impreza line...
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    That phenomenon is called severe understeer. Though some Soob owners may not be very familiar with that... ;)

    I believe the stalling you're referring has to do with the AWD drivetrain. There is more mechanical resistance in sending power to four wheels, and so it takes more to get it going. Once on the move, you hardly notice.

    Try the tilt wheel feature if you haven't. Can't help with the leather - that's why I choose cloth.

    Bob: I'm surprised. The mod V8 has been in the Crown Vic for years, and it's been quite reliable. Ford seems to be in a down cycle.

    -juice
  • paisanpaisan Posts: 21,181
    And when pre-tell in the past 20 years has it been in an up-cycle :)

    I love Blue Oval News!

    -mike
  • bluesubiebluesubie Posts: 3,497
    I've also heard that the slight delay in automatic Subes is due to the size of the torque converter. Anyone else want to add to that? Colin?
    Dennis
  • ramonramon Posts: 825
    Some one mentioned that tauruses , camrys and accords don't have them. Well they might be equiped with traction control where by the ecu will retard engine timing to cut power thus limiting tq steer from happening.
  • tincup47tincup47 Posts: 1,508
    I can't speak for Accords or Camrys, but traction control was not on the 94 SHO we used to own. 220hp with no torque steer. Also no transmission or engine problems over 120,000 miles.
  • ramonramon Posts: 825
    have front LSD? Wow. 220hp no TQ steer. Our old 95 V6 Probe with 165hp creates TQ steer like mad when you step on the gas hard....
  • Torque steer doesn't happen on the Fords mentioned because it has been engineered out, not because someone pulled some kind of software stunt. There is a right way and a wrong way to fix certain things, and hardware and hard engineering is the way to fix torque steer. Like Ford did.

    The Explorer/Firestone controversy that seemed to ignite the current flamefest aimed at Ford is being scrutinized by people looking at hard numbers. Those numbers indicate some interesting things, such as the fact that the failure rate of the tires can be pinpointed to a particular factory and even a particular time period. Those numbers also indicate that the death rate in Explorers is 28 percent BELOW the national average for all vehicles combined.

    Of course the damage is already done, and the fear mongers and the media outlets that sell advertising by catering to their cravings have already made their money on the basis of such questionable statistics and Naderesque, kill-the-Corvair, hatchet-job tactics. Now they are looking for the next hatchet target. Shame on us for feeding that awful machine, because it is aimed right at us.

    -wdb
  • armac13armac13 Posts: 1,129
    How dare you inject a note of sanity into the proceedings. I have a strong (somewhat irrational) dislike of Fords based upon my past experiences. It's fun to bash them! :-) You are correct however and I feel properly chastened. Mea culpa.

    Ross
  • paisanpaisan Posts: 21,181
    I've (and many people I know) been burnt by FORD, I feel it's my god given right to be able to bash on em. And like he said it's fun! ;)

    -mike
  • tincup47tincup47 Posts: 1,508
    It was fun to bash them also, but I refrain from doing so on this list.
  • paisanpaisan Posts: 21,181
    I won't be offended, I don't know anyone who has had the troubles that i've seen across the board on Fords.

    You don't know the agony that many of us on here have been through with various Fords...

    -mike
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,698
    The 2002 Explorer 4.6 has a new alloy block, unlike the Crown Vic versions.

    Bob
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,698
    AutoWeek, the new WRX is already sold out for the first 6-8 months! :(

    Also, the brake down of sedans vs wagons is roughly 80% sedans. Another :(

    They mention that 10,000 WRXs are slated for the USA this year :)

    Bob
  • locke2clocke2c Posts: 5,038
    Bob, that sounds like Ford logic. Put the aluminum block in a truck/SUV instead of the Mustang where it might do some noticable good.

    GM still hasn't put an aluminum block v8 in a truck/suv but the F-bodies and Corvettes have had it several years.

    10,000 WRXs aren't going to be enough. They sold like 6 or 7,000 '00 2.5RS and it isn't nearly the car, nearly as hyped, anticipated, etc.

    -Colin
  • The WRX's arent sold out like that, sorry. (ive talked to several dealers, and they dont have any reservations for it)
  • paisanpaisan Posts: 21,181
    My dealer doesn't have 1 person who knows what a WRX is (other than me) but will get the same allocation as other dealers. I think the Mag is just trying to hype the car up a bit, which isn't a bad thing.

    -mike
  • Hi gang. I was wondering if anyone knew if Subaru had any plans for a minivan, or if they fear a minivan would cannibalize the Outback and Forester sales?
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,698
    for the confusion regarding the WRXs being sold out. The article was quoting a Subaru spokesman who "thought" the WRXs would be sold out for the first 6 -8 months because of a huge pent up demand for the vehicle. My mistake.

    Bob
  • ramonramon Posts: 825
    I'm getting a 3rd year WRX then. No rush.... Hopefully they will have more improvements.
    Does anyone know if the new WRX stateside have a rear LSD like the MY00 + RS?
  • locke2clocke2c Posts: 5,038
    I'm sure it will Alwin.

    -Colin
  • Want to start a rolling brainstorm -- predict the 2005 Subaru lineup. Rules are: Make it a combination of your preference and prediction -- don't assume Subaru has unlimited $, even w/GM. Do assume Subaru wants to sell more cars, and that means reaching more market niches if not mainstream market, yet does not want to stray from core strengths. To stir it up, here's my lineup suggestion using existing platform lineup:

    IMPREZA -- becomes sub-brand and expands ...
    1.base model -- sedan and sta wgn., 2.5 engine but better mpg figures, price kept low to challenge Civic, Corolla, Protege, Focus it's a dealer advertising loss leader

    2. Plus model -- same engine, 6 sp. manual, nicer insides including opt. leather, seat warmers, power driver seat, trip computer

    3. WRX -- 6 sp. man., Recaro seats, possible Panoz model (appearance add-ons only), finds itself in buff book comparos with BMW 3-sries and winning handily. coupe returns

    4. High-mileage hybrid-engine model? Only if GM pops for it.

    FORESTER -- becomes sub-brand w/3 models
    1. current model redesigned 2002/2003, bigger than current model or new Impreza (backseat woes solved) now called the Forester Sacajewea (can't spell it) after the FEMALE scout who led Lewis & Clark; breakthough name to aggressively appeal to female market (hey, it's a brainstorm, Okay? no bad ideas in a brainstorm)

    2. STX pickup -- base modeal and LL Bean model with outdoor add-ons to execute Aztek concept the right way

    3. Macho looking but slightly undersized minivan (a la new Mazda), but has the six cyl. to solve Mazda's problem, AWD of course, nicely tricked out to further eat away at big 3 minivans, handles well, accelerates well, designed for the soccer mom w/attitude who doesn't mind breaking a nail now and then, and the husband who feels embarrased in an Odyssey, Town and Country or other.

    LEGACY --
    fading, loss leader base sedan and wagon (blaah --stays in lineup only so dealers have newspaper ad price leader along with Impreza base)

    OUTBACK -- expanded to three models
    1. Outback Classic -- continuation of current wagon with current features, engine w/ more low-end torque, possible addition of nav. system, OnStar, smoother transmission thanks to GM; appeals to people whose previous car was Grand Cherokee or other landed gentry SUV, but now want something smaller, more manageable -- but still virile -- in their AARP years.
    2. Outback Summit -- new, true SUV, built off Legacy platform but 4-6 inches longer, 1-2 inches wider and 3 inches higher with more macho look (Sub's version of Toyo Highlander)and the 6-cyl with hp. beef-up, hits the 20 mpg EPA city mark, auto. only of course. Possible name: Summit (used before, but don't forget, Plymouth once called their wagons "Suburbans" yet Chevy continues to succeed w/the name)

    3. sedan -- I'm stumped -- more GT-like or more Outback like? Does it die -- if so, no Legacy sedan at all because Legacy base model sales won't fund cost of the sedan body. Sub. should not try the Accord/Camry/Taurus/Intrigue/etc. Hopefully learned its lesson in the mid 90s.
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