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Subaru Crew - Future Models II

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  • bluesubiebluesubie Posts: 3,497
    Well, kinda going OT about the Neon but -
    The Shadow had good reliability according to Consumer Reports. My first new car was a '95 Neon. Bad car (yeah, I know, first year) and really bad dealer experiences. I read a year or so ago that Automobile regretted naming it COY. They said any minute it felt like something would come apart on the dash. Exactly the way I felt.

    Traded the Neon for my 97 OBS. Great car and much better dealer experience.
    Dennis
  • paisanpaisan Posts: 21,181
    I had an '85 Lebaron GTS Turbo 2.5l That thing was way better than the neon! Reliable, and screaming fast! It was the pre-cursor to the shadow I believe.

    -mike
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    The Shadow (yet another K-car) had a shorter wheel base and some cost cutting measures.

    My friend has owned two, mostly out of necessity, because they kept falling apart. His turbo was fast when it was running.

    -juice
  • I had a '89 Lebarron for 3 years... After fixing the shocks, it actually drove pretty well (only 100hp though). That car was jynzed though, things kept running into it: Rearended at an innersection, Sideswiped while driving down the street, hit in the parkinglot twice. I finally sold it this year for $700 w/ damage... (already spent $1500 on body repairs, car was worth about that much)

    Im driving my moms old car now ('92 Achieva), after she bought her '00 Legacy GT Limited Sedan (white w/ spoiler). I miss the LeBarron even though the Achieva is a 3.3l V6, cause it handles like crap...

    The best American small car in decades though is definatly the Focus. Cant wait to see the Focus-RS when it comes out...
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    How 'bout some fatter no-sway bars for that UndaAchieva? That plus some sportier tires could help a bit.

    At least you can look forward to that GT eventually. :) Hey - tell your mom to get the turbo or H6 model when those come out, then you keep the GT...

    -juice
  • lucien2lucien2 Posts: 2,984
    pfft! juice made a funny, and a good one!

    That whole platform blows. Actually, I think the newer one does too (Malibu etc). GM has yet to figure out they need to do something about torque steer if they want to keep building FWD cars. I never drove a FORD FWD model that pulled as badly as the half dozen or so Cavaliers, Luminas, etc. I have driven.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    I've only driven an Intrigue (at Edmunds Live with Hutch). It was so lame, he didn't even bother to drive it. We both liked the V6 Camry much better.

    In most cases we took turns driving each car.

    -juice
  • Drove a friend's Seville once, and made the mistake or flooring it (per his suggestion) to get a sense of its power. what I got a sense of was the most violent torque steer imaginable. Suddenly I was in a fight with the car on where the car was headed -- straight ahead or left. that wheel jerked to the left and took my unprepared hands with it. And this car costs $46-$50K!

    Why no torque steer with Subarus -- longitudinal engine? Maybe they should turn the Cadillac over to the Subaru engineers. In fact, maybe GM should turn the WHOLE COMPANY over to Subaru.
  • ramonramon Posts: 825
    See when u mesh the gas pedal, the initial weight transfer is shifter to the rear which if your car is FWD, the rears are just along for the ride and to support the rear seats. So the nose of your car will lift up. You get alot less traction when the driving wheels are lifter off the ground. That my friend invites torque steer to your car.
    Our AWD cars will still get the weight transfer. But since (5spd) is 50/50 power bias so there's power at the rear anyways so the car just scoots. But I've lighted all 4 of my tires for a very brief second once. I accidentally dumped the clutch at 6000 rpm and it hit the rev limiter. Tires screeched for a blink of an eye and the car takes off. Not good for tranny. But loads fun.
  • locke2clocke2c Posts: 5,038
    The big causes of torque steer are suspension design and halfshaft length. Because the engine is longitudinally mounted (and centered in the engine bay, ahem to older Audi models) equal length half-shafts are easy. For most transverse mounted FWD or AWD vehicles it's not so easy, but many foreign makes have bothered to go through to effort to make it so. Cadillac may have not... and if the half-shafts aren't equal length, the shorter one gets more torque to the wheels. (It's a U joint, not a lever arm.)

    The suspension also plays a very large role but that's not as easy to explain. I'll wimp out and have you trust me, or ask someone else to take up the gauntlet.

    Anyway, Subaru has addressed both. ;-)

    -Colin
  • bluesubiebluesubie Posts: 3,497
    I experienced it when I drove my cousin's Grand Am GT. I let out a big "Whoa!" Man, am I spoiled with AWD. :-)
    Dennis
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    V8 torque + FWD = recipe for torque steer. Cadillac always seems to be a step behind the trend of the times - most luxury cars are going RWD.

    Even the Passat has torque steer, though VW hypes the "virtual axis" front suspension.

    Put simply, you're simply asking the front wheels to do too much! Carry 60% of the weight, steer, and oh, by the way, apply torque to the pavement at the same time!

    Soobs divide the traction duties, and the weight distribution is better to boot.

    -juice
  • lucien2lucien2 Posts: 2,984
    I'm with Colin, it ain't just AWD. Tauruses don't do it, neither do Camrys or Accords, because they have put the money into the engineering Colin described. Only in high HP cars is it acceptable, IMHO, like the 9-3 Viggen
  • paisanpaisan Posts: 21,181
    The caddys refered to above are kinda high horsepower and torque... I just hate FWD in general...

    -mike
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,657
    More problems for Ford...

    Besides just having the 5th recall (the largest yet!) for the Escape, it's now reported that the all-new OHC 4.6 alloy block V-8, scheduled for the soon to be released 2002 Explorer 4-door has been delayed due to problems.

    Will it ever end??

    Bob

    http://www.blueovalnews.com/
  • locke2clocke2c Posts: 5,038
    High HP? Uh yeah, if you consider 275-300 HP "kinda high". ;-)

    For the weight of the vehicle and the size of the tires, it shouldn't have the torque steer problem that it does if it were engineered properly. A better solution though would be RWD.

    -Colin
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,657
    A better solution still would be AWD. :-{)

    Bob
  • I got to drive my moms GT Limited to class today cause the Old's had some stalling problems yesterday (It doesnt happen to me for some reason, just when other people drive it) and plus it was raining today, and I do love the AWD in rain :)

    Anyway, theres this zig-zag on a 4 lane road I go on every day (S curve, 35mph, very tight) and the Achieva goes about 50-55 before it starts seriously peeling out and the front of the car starts to give away (its really scary too, the opposite of fishtailing) while the '00 Legacy can go about 60 without peeling out.

    However, the Legacy is seriously out-powered by the achieva (3.3 V6 vs. 2.5 H4) which I could easily beat a stock RS with (And these civics just love challenging me, and I just play along staying right next to them without even trying... its hilarious). The Legacy has this really nasty "stall" thing it does when accellerating from a stop (Its impossible to peel out with...), but its got good enough umph when accellerating when your already moving for sure... Anyone notice how funky the steering wheels position is though? You just cant get close enough without seriously bending your legs (im 5'10"), its hard to get in a good brasive posture... (the slick leather and flatness of the seat backs dont help)

    Dont get me wrong, the Legacy is a damn good car, in fact, I got a little to close to a curbing while parking and the car just hopped right up without hesitation (!) like it wasnt even there... I still like the RS better, and cant wait for the new Impreza line...
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    That phenomenon is called severe understeer. Though some Soob owners may not be very familiar with that... ;)

    I believe the stalling you're referring has to do with the AWD drivetrain. There is more mechanical resistance in sending power to four wheels, and so it takes more to get it going. Once on the move, you hardly notice.

    Try the tilt wheel feature if you haven't. Can't help with the leather - that's why I choose cloth.

    Bob: I'm surprised. The mod V8 has been in the Crown Vic for years, and it's been quite reliable. Ford seems to be in a down cycle.

    -juice
  • paisanpaisan Posts: 21,181
    And when pre-tell in the past 20 years has it been in an up-cycle :)

    I love Blue Oval News!

    -mike
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