Subaru Crew - Future Models II

kate5000

I was thinking if there was a hint in mentioning Indiana plant... that started me thinking along the American Indian lines:

Subaru Apache
Subaru Seminole

I think Comanche was used by Jeep some time ago, and Navajo was of course was taken by Mazda.

rsholland

but I doubt you'll see any Indian names; too politically incorrect these days.

Bob

sweet_subie

Hi:

I am moving from Houston to Boston during this winter. I have an 01 OB( no weather package ) & 00 MPV. My questions are:

1. How good is the Subaru Weather package ? Deicer, heated seats & heated mirrors ? Does it de-ice effortlessly ? If yes, I might trade-in my MPV for a forester or vdc ( with weather package ) .

2. When is the 03 forester due ?

3. Does AWD perform significantly better than FWD in boston suburb weather ? So, me selling MPV for a forester - I will give up a lot of room incl 3 rd row seat....is it worth giving space for the AWD traction & weather package in return ?

4. Any hassle-free pricing Subaru dealer in MA ?

Any comments welcome !

1subydown1togo

ateixeira

Rock Hopper is too much, but what about Sand Blaster? Or bring over the Brumby name, I like that.

Krisshna:

1. I wish I had it. My dad loves his.
2. Probably June 2002 for the 2003 Forester.
3. AWD is definitely better than FWD, but no Subie will match the space offered by the MPV.
4. The only no-haggle dealer I know is Fitzgerald Subaru in MD.

Funny thing is I have a Forester and we're considering an MPV for the wife. No question I'd choose the Forester in any kind of foul weather. Our Mazda 626 is FWD but it's still not very good in the snow with an open differential and short gearing. Our Mazda Miata is awful in the snow, so it just stays parked.

The MPV does at least have most of its weight on the driven wheels, but I imagine at least having traction control would make it better suited for snow duty. Having said that, you could try it for a season and then always get that new Forester when it comes out next year.

Good luck either way.

-juice

sweet_subie

Thanks......

Where are you located at ? May we can swap the cars...lol.

That's what I will do......check out for one season......

you said weather package you dad likes it a lot ? How about de-icer in particular ? will it melt the snow without having us do anything ? I am new to this snow weather....

Krish

rsholland

We have the AWP on our Forester. It's definitely a nice grouping of features to have. I especially like the heated mirrors and seats. I haven't really had an opportunity to use the windshield deicer yet.

Bob

locke2c

Our Mazda Miata is awful in the snow, so it just stays parked.

Our Miata has snow tires and is magnificent in snow, and gets driven all winter long. Rear glass with a defroster and a mechanical LSD help too. ;-)

-Colin

bblacha

3. I lived for 10 years in the Northeast driving a variety of vehicles. For everyday driving in the metro areas, roads are usually maintained well enough that you never drive on snow or ice, unless you head for the hills, or your driveway :-) But even there, FWD gets around just fine if you don't do crazy things and get stuck. (RWD otoh is useless without traction control.) So stick with the minivan if you stay on frequented roads.

AWD, however, is SO much fun if you push the limits :-)

4. I don't know about Mass. but using services like autobytel can eliminate a lot of pricing hassles.

--Bart

texsubaru

The pictures are too small for me to get a sense of the vehicle's proportions, but, other than that, it doesn't look too bad to me. Nonetheless, I have a general suspicion that Volvos tend to be a bit overrated.

ateixeira

Krish: I'm in DC if you want to swap test-drives, sure, e-mail me (it's in my profile). I do want the 3.0l MPV, but I wouldn't mind sampling yours. :-)

Colin: my plastic window will crack if I try to wipe off any snow/ice. LSD, yes, but lame all-season tires lose grip under full throttle even in rain, never mind snow or ice. No need for snows - that's what my Subie is for!

-juice

sweet_subie

Esp. Check out the audi & highlander !!!!!!!

Subaru Outback
3715 lbs.

Volvo XC
3699 lbs.

Audi allroad quattro
4233 lbs.

BMW 3-Series
3594 lbs.

Toyota Highlander
3880 lbs.

Volkswagen Passat
3757 lbs.


Respective Ground Clearance 7.9 in. 8.2 in. 5.6 in. 7.3 in. 4.9 in.

rsholland

While not exactly a "new" car, it certainly is interesting. This article says it's the quickest GTI ever. It's offered with a 5-speed tip-tronic tranny, and is priced (and performanced) between the WRX and RS. Just wish they would also offer the VR-6, 6-speed, AWD version found in Europe.

Also mentioned here is the fact that sporty hatchbacks are making a strong comeback here in the USA, further supporting my desire to see the next-generation Imprezas to be all 3 or 5-door square-back hatch/wagons, with no notch-back sedan models.

Bob

http://www.auto.com/reviews/ulrich29_20011129.htm

paisan

I personally like em. Hatchs are cool too, but a regular notchback is classy.

-mike

rsholland

I think by offering the Impreza in squareback only format, it offers further distinction between the the Impreza lineup and the Legacy lineup.

The Impreza RS is similarly priced with the Legacy L. I think people who really want a notchback sedan could be easily coaxed into the Legacy sedan, even though it may not be as sporty.

Also, the squareback body is far more space-efficient and flexible—which are attributes that have helped make Subaru so popular. And, the smaller the vehicle, the more advantageous a squareback becomes.

Bob

paisan

It's called the wagon.

A wagon and a sedan is good, IMHO.

-mike

rsholland

and wanted a WRX (which I do!), I wouldn't even consider the sedan, I'd go straight for the wagon.

Now if the WRX were offered in both a 3 and 5-door squareback instead, my decision would be a lot tougher (and more fun!)...

Bob

paisan

a 3-door is a waste of production $ and effort. Anyone who needs the squareback can easily be forced into the 5-door. That would not make any kind of sense for a small manufacturer like subaru.

-mike

rsholland

It works for VW, and others. Why wouldn't it work for Subaru?

Bob

paisan

Think of it this way. Subaru is small. By offering a sedan and a 5-door wagon, you get all the buyers of hatchbacks with the 5-door who would otherwise buy a 3-door as well as the buyers of sedans. cut out the sedans and you cut out a whole slew of buyers. Whereas if you sell a 3-door and a 5-door you overlap your buyers. This is the same reason why subies are generally jam packed with std. features cause it costs more to offer more options.

-mike

bblacha

I love to see manufacturers who believe that. Subaru, Honda, VW, others simplify their lineup to avoid costs of option configuration, supposedly. Unfortunately others like Toyota and the Big 2-1/2 hope to increase revenue by posting low MSRP's for strippers and then making up for extra costs through rip-off options. I'm glad Subaru is sticking to the KISS principle.

--Bart

rsholland

I stated earlier that people who really want a sedan would move to the similarly priced Legacy sedan. I don't want to lose those customers either.

VW does the same thing. People who don't want a squareback Golf, end up with a Jetta or Passat sedan.

I just think the 3-door offers something that is now missing in the Subie lineup, and has been missing since they discontinued the Impreza coupe.

Bob

paisan

What does a 3-door do that a 5-door doesn't? You push someone to a legacy from an RS and they'll just leave the subaru line.

-mike

tincup47

Disappointing sales of the coupe led to it's demise, and I'm sure projected sales of a 3 door hatch are not enough to justify the development costs of a 3 door hatch, especially as small cars are not huge profit generators.

rsholland

has the perception of being sportier, and is more likely to appeal to the "singles" crowd. There are people out there who won't buy a WRX simply because only 4-doors are offered.

I disagree about losing customers, by moving them to Legacy.

Bob

rsholland

I'm talking about the next-generation Impreza, not adding one to the current lineup. They're going to have to do development on any new vehicle anyway, so why not a 3-door?

Bob

rsholland

I'm a huge supporter of 4-doors in general, and here I am putting forth arguments supporting a 3-door...

The older you get get the more you appreciate easy access into the rear seat, which 4-door models afford. However, having said that, I still think, considering the audience demographic that the Impreza goes after (mostly young and many single), that there is a place for a 3-door in the lineup.

Bob

paisan

Afterall if people want a 5-door fast car they can get a VDC or LL bean right? See you can't have it go both ways, either a 3-door or a 5-door but not both. FHI can't afford that.

-mike

rsholland

paisan

According to your logic bob, FHI should make a coupe and a 3-door in the impreza body, and leave the 4 and 5-door models for the legacy line.

-mike

rsholland

Mike, read my original post on this subject. I said I would like to see the next-generation Impreza consist of a 3-door and a 5-door squareback, similar to that offered by the VW Golf. That's it. Period. Nowhere did I state what you just mentioned.

Bob

paisan

Your logic being that a 4-door car = non sport = not the market for the small impreza. That would translate to 5-door car = non sport = not the market for the small impreza.

Don't you see there is more overlap in terms of customers between the 3-door and 5-door compared to a 4-door and 5-door? Just cause VW which has a much larger market share does it doesn't mean it would work for subaru. Don't forget most subaru shoppers aren't "image" people they are more of "function" people and a 5-door would serve the same functions as a 3-door to a function person as opposed to an image person who would see the difference between a 3 and 5 door. Not to mention that the sedan is produced on a world wide basis where a small sedan is the std. and a legacy wouldn't sell.

-mike

tincup47

Sales of the coupe did not justify inclusion into the present model, so I don't see FHI spending money on the next generation for any 3 door models.

fernieguy

Too bad Patti didn't hint who, hopefully She give's us a hint on the subject since its Friday...Please...

Stephen

rsholland

<< Your logic being that a 4-door car = non sport = not the market for the small impreza. That would translate to 5-door car = non sport = not the market for the small impreza. >>

Again, not what I said or implied. I said in some people's minds a 3-door is sportier than a 4-door. That's why some people buy 2 or 3-doors over 4 or 5-doors.

I think this discussion has run its course... Anybody think of any Brat-NOT names yet?

Bob

paisan

It's not gonna happen bob, you won't see a 3-door WRX or impreza!

-mike

fernieguy

BRAVE (Bi-Range Awd VEhicle)

TGIS (Thank God Its a Subaru) ok that's lame

Stephen

fernieguy

They look cooler but functionally they're not. IMO I think it was a good move to get rid of them, Functionality and simplicity are the keys to keep in mind.

That's my take

Stephen

rsholland

Squareback 3-doors (like the Golf) are quite functional and roomy; fastback 3-doors (like the RSX) are much less so.

Granted, access to the rear seat on any 3-door is not good, but the squarebacks can carry large bulky items.

Bob

beanboy

They have a hatchback 3-door, sedan, wagon and now a hatckback 4-door. Now, if the wagon weren't in the US market, would you call the 4-door hatchback a wagon? Has about the same slope as the Impreza wagon and MP5 from the looks of it...

Also brings up the question of market. I guess a younger crowd who wants the ease of four doors and a hatch but without the wagon look would go for the 4-door hatch. Seems to be a slim group to be aiming for.

Then again, folks who don't like the look of minivans go for large SUVs and Ford is a bit bigger than Subaru. Still, don't think there has ever been a 4-door hatch and wagon of the same car in the US market.

-Beanboy

fernieguy

But since most 2doors and 4 doors use the same frame and functionally 4 doors are more useful, the VW Squareback is useful but with either 4 or 2 doors its the same wheel base (I think) and interior space. So one car with 4 doors is easier to produce.

Stephen

fernieguy

The good ole Ford Escort had all versions of that car but I'm pretty sure the wagon had a longer wheel base

Stephen

p0926

I prefer 3-door vehicles. In fact, the Forester is my first 5-door. I also agree that as a general rule, 3-doors are considered sportier and are usually about $1,000 cheaper than their 4-door siblings. However, I can see why Subaru would decide that the present market segment isn't big enough to justify the development costs.

-Frank P.

twrx

I like 2 doors better. I like the looks of the original 2 door WRX better than the present 4 door (My wife has a wr blue '98 RS 2 door) Having said that I would have bought the 4 door WRX but we needed a wagon so I bought the 5 door WRX. Love the styling of it. I wonder if any other car company only offers 4 and 5 door cars?

TWRX

lark6

With the demise of the Riviera Buick only offered 4-door sedans until introducing the Rendezvous, a 5-door minivan/SUV thingy. Hints have been thrown at them building a production car based on the Bengal 2-door convertible show car, but nothing definite IIRC.

Ed

rsholland

Usually, when a company produces a 3-door hatch, a 5-door hatch, and a 5-door wagon, the wagon gets a bit more rear overhang than either hatch model. The wheelbase often; not always, but often; remains the same on all vehicles.

Bob

sweet_subie

http://www.motortrend.com/news/news_f.html

see volovo xc90

I expected something like this from Subie !!!!!!

I think this is perfectly poised between a regular wagon & SUV.......a true cross-over not a dressed-up cross over like Outback or XC.

opinions ?

paisan

It's not a dressed up crossover. I've seem em off road before and you'd be suprised what they can do. The volvo is going to be nothing more than a mini-van replacement, that is what 99% of SUV owners really need, but are afraid to buy!

-mike

sweet_subie

I don't disagree with you. I own one too.

My point was they could have disctinguished towards SUV ( in terms body structure ) further from the legacy wagon......

paisan

They don't want to be another SUV. Subaru has always made it on the fact that they were different. They are too small to compete in the mid-size SUV market.

-mike