Subaru Crew - Future Models II

fernieguy

I noticed Patti hasn't commented on this yet...Did the Subaru Crew get scooped???? Somebody out there knows..

As for marketing to the X-generation is wish they would stop it already. I actually do a lot of the stuff that they advertise and I find it a turn off when something has a big X in the name..

Stephen

rsholland

bblacha

Did anyone get the length, wheelbase or bed length of the show car STX? (I'm sure production Baja specs would be way too much to ask!)

If it is significantly longer than the Outback, then with a truck cap it would work for me as an extended-Outback, with extra cargo space that the current Outback is a bit short on.

--Bart

rsholland

fernieguy

Here is a link for the specs that were given for the STX, wether they have changed or not I don't have a clue

http://www.subaru.com/phase1/stx/specs/index.html

Stephen

beachfish

Call it what you will, it will always be the Subaru BRATBACK to me. John

bblacha

The STX had a 55.5 inch bed, a full 1 ft over the 43.5 inches behind the rear seat in the Outback... plus the flexibility of a truck bed... plus the handling of a car... this could be a pretty neat package.

If we got so excited guessing the name, I can imagine the traffic in this group once Patti starts expecting spec and feature announcements :-)

rsholland

That Mag X article on the next Forester mentioned that it would be getting a 6-speed. If so, I wonder if that will make it here? Sure hope so...

Actually I'm wondering if Subaru might be planning on two different 6-speeds: One a close-ratio unit for high-performance applications, such as found on the WRX STi; and a wide-ratio unit that could substitute or replace the current dual-range tranny?

Think about it. It could be a wide ratio unit, with a granny 1st gear that would be used only in extreme situations such as off-road or towing. Normally you would start off in 2nd gear. If they did offer such a unit, reverse would (should) also have a lower ratio to work with the lower 1st gear.

Bob

pattim3

name. There are a lot of ramifications for releasing information before I get permission - mainly - I wouldn't be allowed to post here anymore. As soon as I can, I will! Promise!

Patti

rsholland

We don't want that to happen. We'll just endure the pain a bit longer...

Bob

ateixeira

The BRAT's main selling point will be its car-like behavior. Ford tries to sell the SporTrac as an SUV that became a Crew Cab, not a pickup (even though it is).

6 speed Forester? Yum. It would help CAFE numbers too.

Patti: even if you can't leak it, could you point us to someone who could? ;-)

-juice

rsholland

I've been studying this site that Ken provided. Even though it's in Japanese, like the SOJ site, the pixs provide some very interesting info. The most fascinating item I found is that it has a "gull-wing-type" rear hatch, that extends part way into the roof to further aid loading and unloading! I think this a brilliant idea! Why nobody has thought of this before is a complete mystery...

http://www.nissan.co.jp/STAGEA/M35/0110/EQUIPMENT/index.html<

HINT: Go to the 2nd tab, and then to the 2nd sub-tab to see the gull wing hatch.

If Nissan decides to bring this over here, watch out... That all-new '05 Outback couldn't get here quick enough. IMO, this could be the most impressive and significant new Nissan ever&#151;even more so than the new 350Z!

Bob

rsholland

when these sites are in Japanese only. I noticed a section in the "Spec" area where they compare various Stageas to other competitors including Legacys and Volvos, in various trim levels.

Can you imagine this over here hooked up to their new 3.5 V6 and with AWD? WOW! AWD will harness all that power, so you can forget about torque steer.

Bob

fernieguy

I really like that feature, Make it snow friendly and you have a winner.

Stephen

rsholland

brush the snow off before opening.

Bob

ateixeira

Bob: price, though. A loaded Altima hits $30k. OK, you can negotiate down to $28k, but add a wagon body ($1500), AWD ($1500), and it'll cost a lot more than an LL Bean wagon.

I do like it. Volvo rear, with Daewoo profile, and a hint of Highlander/Forester in the D pillar. Notice the sporty 3 spoke steering wheel and the dual moonroofs a la Outback.

-juice

rsholland

They have a place to store the retractable cargo cover when not wanted! This is something I had hoped for for years!

HINT: Go to the 2nd tab, and then to the 3rd sub-tab.

In Japan it's offered in several engines, and Nissan sees it as a direct competitor to all Legacy and Outback wagons, otherwise they wouldn't be offering those comparisons. So it must be priced competitively. Perhaps a "full-boogie" model would be offered as an Infiniti? Much like the Pathfinder is to the QX-4...

Because of the flat roof, I bet both those moonroofs retract, unlike the dual moonroofs on the Legacy wagons. There appears to be enough space between the front and rear moonroof for that to happen.

Bob

ateixeira

I wonder what platform it's built on. It looks about mid-size, so that had me thinking Altima.

Each moonroof does look small, though, as in the Outback. I guess that's OK, give the kids their kicks, but I still prefer the enormous helicopter ports in the Forester and Trooper.

-juice

rsholland

http://www.veh-tech.net/

Bob

paisan

only $23,650 for it too.

-mike

locke2c

90kg lighter, that's quite a bit. solidly under 2900lb now... under 2800lb perhaps even.

-Colin

brekke

we had a 1976 Chevy Impala station wagon. You could raise/lower the rear window via a lever on the front console (there were a few levers, I can't remember what they did). I believe the rear gate also opened flat, like a pickup. Do they still make wagons like this? This car never gave us any trouble and we were very upset when it was stolen 9 years later.

miksmi

Hi Caroline,

Glad to see you're still here.

That brings back memories. My parents had a 72 Chevy Impala wagon, 400 cubic inch V8 (that's 6.6 liters! 8-O ), 2 barrel carburetor, 3rd rear-facing seat (thankfully we were never rear-ended), mint green (I convinced my mom we had to have that color.. ugh) that had the clamshell gate and window. It substantially reduced interior volume. Very painful during the gas shortages of the early 70's.

IIRC Ford and Saturn are the only US wagon manufacturers.

..Mike

jimmyp1

If this really comes over virtually unchanged, it stirs the pot a bit. The hp #'s I've seen for the STI are about 260'ish. Just goes to show you that Subaru really did something smart with the WRX, and now everybody wants a piece of the action.

http://www.motortrend.com/nov01/evo/evo_f.html

Jim

ateixeira

My dad's Olds Custom Cruiser wagon did that too. It was actually useful for tailgating, loading cargo and people, etc. The 2nd and 3rd row seats folded perfectly flat to make a huge bed, and that thing had a V8 and RWD!

Now, if only it had some quality. Even a little would have been nice.

Still, it's funny to see SUVs like the Durango, which are basically the same thing with 4WD and a much higher price.

Honestly, I think the WRX almost has too much content in it. Many buyers wouldn't want to pay extra for the side air bags and CD changer. Heck, I bet a few folks tear out the stereo and the seats anyway. They could lighten it up, even lower the price, or perhaps offer a front LSD and 17" wheels for the same price.

-juice

brekke

i was just looking at renicksubaru.com and they have a little thingy about the ST-X which they are calling the BRAT, and it said the rear window is power-retractable. Hee.

I remember when we bought the Chevy. I was looking at an AMC Pacer in the showroom and I thought it was "cool". I also remember my mom almost cutting my head off with that power window.

ateixeira

Hope that power window goes down into the mid gate and then the whole thing folds down...

-juice

rsholland

It appears to have the revised grille from the STi, a different rear wing, and upgraded shocks and brakes. The wheels and tires are listed as special too, but they appear to be the same as what is currently offered!? Same with the alloy pedals?? Still no 6-speed...

It's designated "R," so perhaps it's for racing? But isn't that what the STis are for?

Bob

http://210.254.95.20/showroom/imp_nbr/

hypov

HID projector lamps?...
Hey, why does it have four pedals?! =O

-Dave

qbrozen

I like that wing.

do people know what I mean when I say "dead pedal"? Is that a term or am I inadvertently making crap up?? The mind is the first to go, right?

sweet_subie

rsholland

hypov

qbrozen

thanks for the verification. Just making sure I'm not losing it.

so, yeah, hypov, that's what it is. Why they put aluminum on it, I don't know.

Well, at least Automobile got it right. Did anyone catch Motor Trend's pick? Ugh! (the Tbird for those who don't know) Let's see.... totally impractical car (the only reason they picked the PT last year), relatively slow, relatively expensive, and relatively lame handling. Sure, sounds like a car of the year, doesn't it?

sweet_subie

Motor trend's pick is always an odd one !

gotenks243

"Why they put aluminum on it, I don't know. "

As that link says, "The beautifully polished (I think that's the word there) aluminum stimulates the driver's Sports Spirit." That's all the explanation you need, isn't it?

The sport suspension, spoiler, bigger wheels and tires, larger discs, and aluminum pedals are what set it apart from the normal WRX NB.

Mike

qbrozen

i was referring to the aluminum on the dead pedal. That's it. Aluminum on the real pedals is fine with me.

hypov

Thanks Bob, Rob.
I didn't notice the Dead Pedal on the State side WRXs. Is it an "in" thing over there?... Never mind the aluminum beautification thing, what's the dead pedal doing there in the first place?

-Dave

rsholland

is nothing more than a "comfortable spot" to rest your left foot. I'm not defending the term, just explaining it...

Bob

paisan

And I think it's rear end "D" pillars are horrible. Once again they take a relatively boxy rear and and rake back the rear end so that it becomes useless as any kind of "utility" vehicle. What on earth are these engineers envisioning carrying in these supposedly "utility" vehicles if the back ends are all curvy and raked back???? ARRRRRGGGGG

-mike

rsholland

are you looking at the same CRV we're looking at?

Bob

bluesubie

on the lark6 NJ/PA ride. I thought it was pretty ugly.

Dennis

paisan

Same one. The rear is raked back more than the old one (more slanted) and therefore cannot (no matter what the interior figures indicated) hold stuff better! Same reason the Forester is better as a utility vehicle than an OB or OBS.

-mike

rsholland

but the new CRV' rear is no more raked than that of a Forester, IIRC.

Bob

paisan

The one I saw was slanted a lot more than the forester. I shall have to visit the Hondah dealer tonight to verify.

-mike

rsholland

I'll save you the trip...

http://www.honda2001.com/models/cr-v/index.html?honda=2002

The rear window does have a slight rake, perhaps a bit more than the old model. However, the rear floor is so low, that for all intents and purposes, it's still a very usable and functional load area&#151;much more so than than the Forester.

Bob

paisan

But Boxy is still preferable when you have a big Box to put in there or stack up stuff. I'll have to see if it's as curved as it appears from the outside. A lower load floor is helpful but it seems to have the same syndrome as the Durango which is what I call Bubble-back.

-mike

ateixeira

Hmm, I've been price shopping for the fun of it, comparing 6 cylinder mid-sizers, and you really do see strong value in the Subies. Check this out.

OK, I'm looking for high-end 6 cylinder mid-sizers that the wife likes, so that brings me to the Altima 3.5 SE and Camry SE. The Accord is an old design and she's a bit bored by it, plus it lacks most of the newer high-tech options the others offer. I tried to equip them as close to a base H6 sedan as possible.

OK, so price it out with TMV figures:

23514 Altima 3.5 SE auto
741 ABS + side air bags + curtains
889 6 CD
296 heated seats
77 floor mats
1388 leather
840 moonroof
283 side sills + splash guards
296 traction control
Total is $28,324 for the Altima

23148 for Camry SE V6 auto
2858 Pkg. 4 with leather, keyless, 6CD, moonroof
290 heated seats
1070 Pkg. 7 with VSC, T/C, side+curtain air bags
Total is $27,366 for the Camry

26516 for Outback H6 sedan auto
422 6CD
135 auto dim mirror
140 security upgrade
Total is $27,213 for the Outback.

The TMV gives Nissan the biggest markup, about $2k, and the Camry about $1500. The Outback has less, but when the $750 rebate arrives (it existed for the 2001 models, and 2002s are just a year older), it will still cost the same.

Each car has its attributes. The Altima is the quickest, with a gem of an engine, but it has torque steer and isn't as luxurious as the Subie. The Camry has great resale and VSC+TC even helps in the traction department, but I'd still pick AWD any day.

A couple of curve balls: the Altima offers a 5 speed manual for less, and the Subie offers a wagon for a more. All of these fall squarely into our price range, though.

The only thing the Subie lacks, comparatively, is the side curtain air bags, so maybe we'll get that in 2003?

MPVs cost $22-25k depending on how much we load it up, but still less than anything mentioned above. Waiting for that 3.0l, though. Odysseys cost $27-29k so they're on the higher end in terms of price.

Thoughts? Comments?

-juice

subearu

Opinions from the Subaru Crew? (hint, hint)

Unless you really, really want a mini-van, I'd favor the Altima or the Outback H6.

-Brian

rsholland

Test drive all of them on the same day&#151;by yourself. Once you've narrowed the list a bit more, bring wifey along for the final cut.

In the end I bet you'll get the Subie.

Bob