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2009 Honda Civic



  • cz75cz75 Posts: 210
    I think the Hyundai is a good choice for anyone who wants a car just for the A to B. I bought a Civic Si because I wanted more than that. Honda definitely offers less than its competitors, except for Toyota, for the same or more money, excluding the Si. The Mazda3 may also be a good choice, but I don't believe that they are quite as well built as Honda and their A/C system seemed to have a problem for the first few years, which I experienced first-hand. The ten-year warranty goes a long way toward covering whatever minimal deficit Hyundai has in quality to Honda and Toyota.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,628
    That deficit is pretty much zero these days, IMO. But there is a Honda Civic vs. Hyundai Elantra discussion here that would be more suitable to this discussion. :)
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    Things to note: Larger, mesh grille opening, extra air inlets in the front bumper, amber blinkers.

    More photos can be seen here (that are larger format than I've used here) at this link and at this one.
  • For those of you with the inside track on info, what are the chances the non-Si models will upgrade from the 5 Speed to the 6 speed trans? It seems that Honda could compete even better on MPG's if they went to a taller final drive ratio on the MT cars to get back up with the MPG's that the auto trans currently enjoys.....
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    I'd say very unlikely. Honda is going to spend as little as possible to retool and change the current Civic. If it ain't broke, they ain't gonna fix it!

    Civic sales are off the charts right now, as it stands.
  • I agree about spending as little as possible, as it's not needed to make a popular car sell even better, but what are the retooling costs?

    Honda already has the trans and they already have all the parts and trim pieces to easily swap it into the non-Si cars. I'm sure potential buyers would gladly pay the additional few hundred bucks for the upgraded trans knowing it will pay for itself with the increase in mileage. Honda gets to boast about even better mileage as well as having a real economy car with a 6 speed.

    It seems to be a no brainer to me.....
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    Who knows - people might be more annoyed with the fact that they'd need to downshift on hills because of the combination of meager torque and a taller ratio. In the automatic it takes no more effort.
  • rv65rv65 Posts: 1,074
    Expect something on August 5th. The good news is that the stuff that was rumored here is very close to production. Maybe we will get that USB port afterall.
  • tiger72tiger72 Posts: 21
    but then you lose some of the "zippiness" that defines the vehicle. At less than 140hp, a 6 speed is overkill - especially when you notice that the Civic's (and most Hondas in general) sweet spot is higher RPM. Mileage *may* increase, but people would shift too much and get too little performance staying at lower RPM...
  • dudleyrdudleyr Posts: 3,407
    I had a 100hp 1.6 l Corolla wagon that pulled 2100 rpm at 60 mph. Why does the Civic need 2500 rpm to do the same. I think another gear would be welcome. Since I like to shift (hence the purchase of the MT) in the first place, an occasional downshift on the highway would not be a problem.

    I even used to have 74 hp 1.7 liter VW Passat (Quantum) with a stick and it also did 2100 rpm at 60 mph. This was in 1983 when everybody was trying to be real efficient. 5th gear was not labeled with a 5, but with an E for economy. The car would do 96 mph in 3rd gear and both 4th and 5th were overdrives.

    I do understand that I am in the minority and honda (and others) are always fearful these days of promoting economy and efficiency because it screams "cheap". Why build and efficinet affordable wagon when you can make an inneficient SUV that has less room and provides greater profits. This has been the mantra - hopefully changing now.

    The only way they can sell the MT is as a performance option hence the short gearing. After all they even killed the lean burn civics because economy did not sell. Hopefully this will change now that gas prices are high. I also never did understand why they put the most efficient engine in the least efficient body style. Seemed like you were alienating everybody with that move. A 4 door hatch or wagon would have had much more appeal to the "efficiency" types.
  • tiger72tiger72 Posts: 21
    I'm going to have to agree with you on quite a bit here. First of all, the reason the new Civic needs more RPM and a bigger engine to go the same speed is that it's pulling a much heavier vehicle. Today's civic is loaded with electronics, more space, more safety equipment, etc.. - all which add to the vehicle's weight.

    You're not in the minority for fuel efficiency - if you were, the ugly-as-hell Prius wouldn't sell, and the Honda Civic wouldn't have taken over the #1 car sold in America slot from the Ford F150. The Civic comes in a "normal" economy car - the DX/LX/EX, and it comes in a Hybrid which easily gets the rated 45MPG+. So I absolutely fail to see where your assertion that Honda is fearful of promoting economy because it doesn't sell comes from. Probably a 1/3 of all Civic sedans I see are hybrids.

    Honda even used to sell a manual tranny hybrid until 2005. It was discontinued for a number of reasons, one being a lack of sales. The other is notably that when compared to a CVT, a manual transmission isn't nearly as efficient.

    So, if you want pristine fuel economy, get the 110hp CVT Hybrid. Hell, you can expect better average fuel economy in the CVT LX/EX over the Manual tranmission on the same trim levels. But if you want to control your car driving experience, get a manual and suffer the hit.

    For "efficiency" types - there's the Fit.
  • dudleyrdudleyr Posts: 3,407
    Everybody was fearfull of economy until this year. Most car ads did not even show the mpg, yet the hp was often in larger type than the cars name.

    A 140 hp Civic can easily pull a taller gear. The Corolla did it with just as much weight. Remember, my 74 hp Quantum was a midsize not a small car. Even in 1983 it weighed nearly as much as todays Civic. Occasional down shift on the highway - so what I bought the manual because I enjoy shifting.

    I have an Accord now and it could also easily pull a much taller gear. Right now it easily goes up moderate hills at 45 mph in 5th gear. I have never had to downshift on any highway. Currently it is about 2380 rpm at 60 mph. It could easily do 2,000 or 2,100 if it had a 6th gear.

    We are just spoiled with power. Look at Europe and see a 518i. This was a while back, but this is a 5 series with the same engine size as the current Civic (the current 5 series has a 2.0 liter base engine). It did fine driving through the Alps and on the autobahn. Why do we need so much more to drive around the beltway on the way to work.
  • tiger72tiger72 Posts: 21
    If everybody was so fearful of fuel economy, as you say, then why are Toyota and Honda so profitable, while GM and Ford have been losing money and cutting jobs for years? I don't believe i've ever seen Honda push horsepower unless it was their Civic si or Accord V6. Otherwise, they ALWAYS promoted their fuel efficiency and value. The same goes for most of the asian car manufacturers. By "most" car ads, I am going to assume that you're referring almost exclusively to American cars.

    If fuel economy wasn't a selling point and important to people before 2008, then why did Honda use a new form of i-VTEC in it's non-si civic trims that is geared towards fuel economy, and not performance as it was in years past, as well as in the current si engine? Honda cars are high RPM cars, and the new fuel-efficient i-VTEC is working under 3500 RPM. In an American vehicle, 3500RPM is pretty high - in a Honda it's where it just starts opening up.
  • heybroderheybroder Posts: 78
    Sorry guys, I can't believe that Honda hasn't offered an automatic transmission for the Si the past couple years. My wife and I love performance and quality. We are looking at Honda and Scion. By the time we add a few low cost "goodies" to the Scion, we'll have right at 170 horse or a little more. Yep, it come with an automatic. If Honda doesn't offer AGAIN, an automatic transmission for the Si, we simply will get the Scion. We love the looks of both but the Honda Si is more sporty looking. Does anyone out there know for sure that Honda will or will not offer an automatic transmission concerning the 2009 Si? :shades:
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    Get the Scion.

    The Si's engine is VERY peaky in nature, and would be completely neutered with an automatic, therefore I don't look for Honda to do it; just as they didn't in the similarly peaky, low-torque S2000 Roadster.
  • heybroderheybroder Posts: 78
    We understand fully what you are talking about! tyvm for replying!! Yep, Scion is our choice! God bless, Randy and Pam is an awesome site :shades:
  • cz75cz75 Posts: 210
    It will never happen, so no need to wait. I'd look at a Mazda3 before the Scion, if you like a sport suspension and excellent brakes, as the Scion is a poseur with only pretensions toward anything sporting.
  • "Occasional down shift on the highway - so what I bought the manual because I enjoy shifting. " - dudleyr

    Exactly my point as well. I would buy a 6 MT Civic EX and downshift whenever it was necessary, without any complaints, because that's where the fun is!

    The milage boost would be an added perk as well as the cool factor of having the only economy car with a 6 speed. Besides all that, the SI 6 MT is one of the favorite manuals of all time, according to the major magazines.

    I think Honda should do it.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,628
    The milage boost would be an added perk as well as the cool factor of having the only economy car with a 6 speed.

    Uh... no.
  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    "Besides all that, the SI 6 MT is one of the favorite manuals of all time, according to the major magazines."

    Uhhh, favorite maybe, that is until the 3rd gear syncro starts doing its little act.

    Best Regards,
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