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Black Box Data Recording

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  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 40,829
    edited November 2011
    Seems like Progressive is more heavily advertising their Snapshot gizmo that tracks your car usage, and the results will lower your premium. Unless you drive like an idiot or late at night anyway.

    You get a better discount if you practice gentle braking, drive fewer miles than the average driver in your state, and minimize driving during peak hours or between midnight and 4 a.m.

    The device tracks time of day and vehicle speed, which helps determine how many miles you drive and how often you make sudden stops (G force).

    The Snapshot device doesn't contain GPS technology or track vehicle location. It also doesn't track whether you're exceeding the speed limit.

    The FAQ says it can't tell if you're exceeding the speed limit, but it tracks speed and time info, so my guess is that if you are doing 80 anywhere but Kansas and parts of Texas, you'll get dinged as a speeder.

    You can also log in and track your own driving by day of the week and time of day and get an overview of your driving habits.

    Looks like the discount is at least 25% and except for the occasional speeding, I'd qualify. But Progressive never has given me a competitive quote, so even 25% off probably is more than I'm paying now.

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  • fintailfintail Posts: 33,804
    I'd never sign up for that. Too much of an open door for shenanigans - and with the behind the scenes link between ensurers and revenue enforcers, nothing good can come of it.
  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 40,829
    edited November 2011
    On the other hand, if you were in an accident and fault was in question, getting access to the data could show that you weren't the cause.

    Might even be able to convince a judge that a revenue enforcer wasn't being completely candid on the speeding ticket. :blush:

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  • fintailfintail Posts: 33,804
    True, I guess one would need to weigh the positives vs negatives. I don't know if I trust some career revenue collectors and insurance suits to be able to judge what kind of G force is evil and what is permissible, however.

    I bet should it come to all that, that the insurance provided recorders somehow would become inadmissible as defense, just able to be used for prosecution :shades:
  • lemkolemko Posts: 15,189
    ...these "black box" recording devices come with this label:

    image
  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 40,829
    I think I've seen that on the Google search page. Facebook too. :P

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  • srs_49srs_49 Posts: 1,394
    LOL!

    Not sure about the warning label, but IIRC, when I took possession of my 2005 Dakota, one of the papers that came with the truck was a notice of the EDR, what it does, and how law enforcement and insurance entities could get their hands on it and the data it contains.
  • robr2robr2 BostonPosts: 7,854
    I'd never sign up for that. Too much of an open door for shenanigans - and with the behind the scenes link between ensurers and revenue enforcers, nothing good can come of it.

    Not defending it but the Snapshot device only stays in your car for 30 days. Technically if you could be a really good boy for 30 days, you could get a good discount.
  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 40,829
    edited May 2012
    "Congress now seems set on passing legislation that would make an Electronic Data Recorder (EDR) – the technical name for an automotive black box – required equipment on all new cars. And lawmakers also want to settle who owns the data on the devices, although that issue won’t be nearly as cut-and-dried."

    As Congress Mulls Mandate on Car Black Boxes, Data Ownership Remains Unclear (Wired)

    "As of 2011, GM vehicles as old as 1994 have accessible data, Ford vehicles as old as 2001 have accessible data, Chrysler vehicles as old as 2005 have accessible data, Toyota and Lexis vehicles as old as 2006 have accessible data, as well as some Isuzu, Fiat, Mitsubishi, Scion, Sterling, and Suzuki vehicles."

    Busted! Your car's black box is spying, may be used against you in court (Computerworld)

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  • fintailfintail Posts: 33,804
    I assume they mean Sterling trucks...

    Time to snip some wires.
  • srs_49srs_49 Posts: 1,394
    Time to snip some wires

    That's my inclination also. Though I think the existing EDRs are part of the air bag activation system. Snip a couple of wires and no air bag (which actually would be OK with me) or worse - accidental deployment!
  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 40,829
    "In a notice posted Thursday, the White House Office of Management Budget said it has completed a review of the proposal to make so-called vehicle "black boxes" mandatory in all cars and trucks, clearing the way for NHTSA to publish its final regulation.

    Nearly all vehicles currently have the devices.

    NHTSA's proposed rule, which would raise the percentage of vehicles required to have an EDR from 91.6 percent today to 100 percent of light-duty autos, would have an incremental cost of nearly $24.4 million, assuming the sale of 15.5 million light vehicles per year."

    NHTSA gets White House OK to mandate vehicle 'black boxes' (Detroit News)

    "It appears that the law will assign ownership of EDR data to the car's owner or lessee. However, major exceptions will allow access by emergency responders and require the sharing of such information following a court order."

    Federal Bill Would Require Event Data Recorders in All Cars (24-7pressrelease.com)

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  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Posts: 5,707
    edited December 2012
    "It appears that the law will assign ownership of EDR data to the car's owner or lessee. However, major exceptions will allow access by emergency responders and require the sharing of such information following a court order." I'm especially talking about the part I've put in bold there.

    Am I right? Of course I am. :blush: To stave off unnecessary, frivolous and lascivious lawsuits related to crashes.

    2011 Kia Soul Sport 5-speed

  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 40,829
    "We'd be remiss if we didn't point out that your car has in it one obvious piece of personal information with your home address: Your vehicle registration. There is nothing that stops a snoop with access to your car from opening your glovebox and seeing where you live. The fix is low-tech and easy: Lock your glovebox and make a habit of bringing your valet key with you when you dine out or take the car for service."

    Top 5 Things Your Car Knows About You

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  • bolivarbolivar Posts: 2,316
    Several months ago, a woman with a small child, on a very foggy morning, supposedly late taking her child to school, on a rural road, hit a lady turning out onto the road and killed her. She said she was going about 60mph. And she seemed to be saying the lady she hit did a 'rolling stop' in front of her. A few days ago the info from the 'air bag module' in her truck came 'back'. She was going 83mph when she hit the lady she killed. Or just before. It's my understanding these modules retain about the last 10 seconds of driving info.

    I have no personal knowledge of this, this info is all from newspaper reports.
  • srs_49srs_49 Posts: 1,394
    I think you have it right. Not sure if 10 seconds is the amount of history that is stored, but it's something like that.
  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 40,829
    "The New York Times has mounted a vigorous defense of its negative review of the Tesla Model S and the automaker's Supercharger stations, telling Edmunds "we will not pull our punches when reviewing cars."

    The fight between Tesla and The New York Times raises privacy concerns for automakers and car reviewers.

    Tesla's computer software in the car effectively allows it to track a reporter's movements in real time."

    Fight Between Tesla and New York Times Raises Privacy Concerns

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  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,021
    That is exactly what the tax by the mile system will do with cars. It tracks every mile you drive to be able and charge for miles driven in a given area.

    The tax would be based on mileage reports that could be made in a variety of ways, such as via smartphone app or global positioning system technology.

    Other states, including Washington, have looked at per-mile charges. A Washington law that would charge electric car owners an annual fee goes into effect in February.

    Oregon set up a task force in 2001 and did a pilot study in 2006, which raised privacy concerns — the government could track cars as they use private roads or leave the state.


    http://www.katu.com/politics/Ore-to-consider-per-mile-tax-for-gas-sippers-185498- 072.html
  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 40,829

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  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,021
    edited February 2013
    The solution is simple. Use an external speed logging device and compare to what you get out of the Tesla black box. If they match up then Broder's review would be made up of less than accurate reporting. It would not be the first time the NYT has had questionable reporting.

    That said the Tesla is not EVER going to be mainstream transportation. They are for fat cats with multiple cars in the stable.
  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 40,829
    True but mainstream cars already have lots of black box tech. And many are logging more than just the last ten seconds of a sensor reading before a crash I bet.

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  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 40,829
    "Try as you may to protect your privacy while driving, it's only going to get harder. The government is about to mandate installation of black-box accident recorders, a dumbed-down version of those found on airlines — that remember all the critical details leading up to a crash, from your car's speed to whether you were wearing a seat belt. The devices are already built into 96% of new cars.

    Plus, automakers are on their way to developing "connected cars" that constantly crank out information about themselves to make driving easier and collisions preventable.

    Privacy becomes an issue when data end up in the hands of outsiders who motorists don't suspect have access to it, or when the data are repurposed for reasons beyond those for which they were originally intended."

    Tell-all cars put your driving business out in the open (Detroit Free Press)

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  • fintailfintail Posts: 33,804
    Make driving easier...the dumbing down continues.

    I am sure law enforcement and the public sector in general can be trusted to behave ethically and responsibly with such data.

    And even with such data, the bozos still won't sequence lights properly, just wait.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,021
    Just don't let your wife's divorce attorney get a hold of your black box. :blush:
  • srs_49srs_49 Posts: 1,394
    edited March 2013
    Don't most cars and trucks contain EDR (Event Data Recorders) nowadays anyways? It it usually part of the air bag deployment system. I know my 2005 Dodge truck has one (the truck came with a separate notice to that effect), as does my 2009 Infiniti.

    Does anyone know of any recent (last 5 years or so) behicles that don't have an EDR in them?

    Ooops, sorry, just reread and saw your 96% figure.
  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 40,829
    edited January 7

    "A government report finds that major automakers are keeping information about where drivers have been — collected from onboard navigation systems — for varying lengths of time. Owners of those cars can’t demand that the information be destroyed. And, says the U.S. senator requesting the investigation, that raises questions about driver privacy.

    The agency said privacy advocates worry location data could be used to market to individuals and to “track where consumers are, which can in turn be used to steal their identity, stalk them or monitor them without their knowledge. In addition, location data can be used to infer other sensitive information about individuals such as their religious affiliation or political activities.”

    Carmakers keep data on drivers' locations (Detroit News)

    In other news, Acura has just announced the new NSA to bookend their NSX model.

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  • crkyolfrtcrkyolfrt Posts: 2,345
    edited January 7

    @Stever@Edmunds said:

    Tell-all cars put your driving business out in the open (Detroit Free Press)

    "Continue reading in our paid archive" Not bloody likely..

    edit..but good post at 1031am, thanks

  • fintailfintail Posts: 33,804

    Good one. Will it be heinously overpriced and underperforming, just like the real NSA? ;)

    @Stever@Edmunds said: In other news, Acura has just announced the new NSA to bookend their NSX model.

  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 40,829

    @crkyolfrt, funny that the link shows up "in the archives" for you since it was just posted today. Must be one of those "Canadian taxes" we're dumping on you.

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  • crkyolfrtcrkyolfrt Posts: 2,345
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