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Engine Oil - A slippery subject Part 2

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Comments

  • thecardoc3thecardoc3 Posts: 1,521
    edited November 2011
    Let me get this straight; are you saying that a good UOA is not indicative of the efficiency/longevity of the oil filter?

    Every oil analysis I have ever sent out has come back with levels exceeding normal amounts of wear, much of which is typically aggravated by the bypass valve in the filter (or the block in some cases) as having been forced open when the filter became too heavily loaded and therefore unfiltered oil was circulating. In otherwords, it was already too late for that consumer and their engine.

    When a customers car comes in the door with no oil showing on the dipstick and subsequently getting to watch maybe two quarts draining from the pan and even with it being warm/hot it's still clearly thicker than what is supposed to be in there, exactly how does an oil analysis tell anything that experience hasn't already observed? Then bump the bill up another $25 for that customer? In a perfect world we could do that, but you have to recognize how that consumer is likely to react to any additional expense beyond what they think an oil change should cost. Now maybe if Blackstone would do this for free....(sarc)
  • thecardoc3thecardoc3 Posts: 1,521
    Unless someone is running junk oil and doesn't change it for twenty thousand miles or more (or if the engine is already in rough shape), it is phylically impossible to "exceed the life of the filter".

    Not true, not true at all and that's why the systems have bypass valves to allow unfiltered oil to flow in the event the filter becomes too restricted. In fact it only takes a small pressure differential to open the bypass valve, and high rpm combined with normal filter loading can routinely allow oil to bypass.
  • Each to his (or her) own....

    I traded a 1986 Ford Bronco II (bught new) for the 2011 Ford Taurus that I have now. Following Ford's service recommendations, using Castrol 10W30 GTX "dino" and Motorcraft FL-1A filter the engine had 254,000 miles, plus, and was still running strong AFTER 25 years of good service. The ONLY reason why I traded was due to the rear axles leaking oil. Ford no longer offered the axles. The aftermarket supplier had a back order on the axles. So, I traded. The Bronco was my "daily driver."

    Too bad Ford does not recommend a Motorcraft filter for the 2011 Ford Taurus the size of the FL-1A filter!!! I really DO NOT like the small FL-500-S Motorcraft filter; hence, no more than 5000 to maybe 6000 mile/ 5-6 months intervals for me.

    Hope everyone had a Happy Thanksgiving!
  • For clarification to my last post, I am using Castrol 5W-20 Edge, Advanced Full Synthetic Titanium oil w/ FST for my Taurus. I would never take "dino" oil and filter further than 3 - 4 months or 3,000 - 4,000 miles.
  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    edited November 2011
    The presence of a bypass valve and the activation of said valve are two very different issues. Per a study done by GM in the late 1990s (which I read while I was at Mercedes), the only oil change (on a healthy engine) where the filter has a chance of becoming clogged to the point of activating the bypass valve is the very first following engine manufacture. Given how high the manufacturing tolerances have become since then, my bet is that even the first oil change interval is no longer sufficient to cause enough particulate matter to be trapped in the filter element to cause bypass activation.

    So, why bother including a bypass at all? Once again per the GM study; the bypass valve is routinely activated when the oil temperatures are extremely cold following a cold start (and varies by oil temperature, oil type, and age of filter). Once the oil starts warming up the valve closes and the oil once again flows through the filter element. Given the oil flowing through the bypass is already well filtered, a few minutes of unfiltered flow is completely irrelevant in regards to long term engine life.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America: I70 & I75Posts: 17,693
    edited November 2011
    Shipo and others?

    I have a 2008 Cobalt with 35000 miles. The oil has been in for 1 year and 3,000 miles. The oil is Pennzoil Platinum synthetic 5w-30 and the filter is a PureOne filter.

    Should I change the filter or just put in fresh oil--GM requires oil change every 1 year.

    Most driving was 80 mile trips on interstate and 6 mile commutes to his job downtown Columbus. Very little was short trip driving.

    This message has been approved.

  • texasestexases Posts: 5,423
    I'd change the filter, too, just to simplify my life. No need to remember any details, oil and filter once/year. If you're going through a change anyway, might as well do the filter for small additional time/cost.

    As for Ford's 5000 mile recommendation if the OLM fails, it's by necessity a VERY conservative recommendation, suitable for all driving types, including lots of short trips. It doesn't reflect the normal expected life under 'regular duty' conditions.
  • roadburnerroadburner Posts: 6,011
    I'd run Pennzoil Platinum(or any other quality synthetic) for 2 years if warranty coverage wasn't a concern. That's what I do with my Jeep Wrangler.

    2009 328i / 2004 X3 2.5/ 1995 318ti Club Sport/ 1975 2002A/ 2007 Mazdaspeed 3/ 1999 Wrangler/ 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica

  • roadburnerroadburner Posts: 6,011
    Every oil analysis I have ever sent out has come back with levels exceeding normal amounts of wear, much of which is typically aggravated by the bypass valve in the filter (or the block in some cases) as having been forced open when the filter became too heavily loaded and therefore unfiltered oil was circulating.

    That has been the exact opposite of my experience, but then I maintain all my vehicles to a high standard.

    When a customers car comes in the door with no oil showing on the dipstick and subsequently getting to watch maybe two quarts draining from the pan and even with it being warm/hot it's still clearly thicker than what is supposed to be in there, exactly how does an oil analysis tell anything that experience hasn't already observed?

    If you are dealing with the typical moronic car owner on a daily basis -fortunately I don't have to- then I would agree. However, that situation is entirely different from the case of a conscientious owner who wants to monitor the mechanical health of his/her car's engine and wants to determine an optimum OCI.

    2009 328i / 2004 X3 2.5/ 1995 318ti Club Sport/ 1975 2002A/ 2007 Mazdaspeed 3/ 1999 Wrangler/ 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica

  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    Change it. Why? Unless I miss my guess, you're still in the warranty period.
  • stvtom1stvtom1 Posts: 1
    I have heard that the compression fittings that leak can be cut off and the hoses repaired with compression clamps. Any one have any thoughts on this?
    Thanks
    Stvtom1
  • texasestexases Posts: 5,423
    edited April 2012
    Whatever you're clamping the hose onto has to have some kind of bump or 'barb' to hold the hose on with the clamp. Just clamping the hose onto a straight tube isn't a good idea.
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