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Buying Luxury used cars

It seems as if used car prices are 25% cheaper in US than - I can imagine that 50% of all cars coming into the country come from US, imported by dealers.

We plan to cut out the middle man and come in by ferry to Arizona and then find a used car dealer there.

Can anyone recommend any websites where we can find details of the major used car dealerships in Arizona?

Many thanks for your help with this.
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Comments

  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Posts: 10,870
    Are you asking about classic luxury used cars, or just regular old used cars? And, from what country are you travelling? I think you're in the wrong place, but I'd like to help you find the right discussion.

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  • Ok just go the side www.autobandits.com and get very advance tool for this type Service …
    There is online Form you just fill from and tell him what you're looking for? He was contact to you.

    I hope this is help post for you…
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Posts: 10,870
    The original poster wasn't looking for on-line services... he/she is inquiring about dealerships in Arizona, specifically.

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  • this is on-line-service !!!
  • hi,
    check out zibe or hendrickcars. They are located close by
  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Posts: 4,201
    I debated in which discussion to place this message, and decided that this discussion is about as appropriate as a couple of others.

    Anyhow, as the owner of a well maintained '87 BMW E30, I sometimes buy "Bimmer" magazine. One of the features of this magazine is "Tech Q & A."
    In Tech Q & A, and throughout this magazine there's frequent mention of the fact that while BMWs are rewarding to drive and enjoyable own, they're high maintenance. Parts and labor are expensive. In addition, in the most recent issue, in the article "Living Large On Small Claims," about the appeal of buying older BMWs for a maximum if $5,000, they state that BMW parts and components, such as water pumps, generally don't last as long as Japanese and domestic brand parts. This begs the questions, "why?", and "must it be like this." As a manufacturer of quality products, shouldn't BMW components last at least as long as those from the more mass market auto makers? Why can't BMWs be designed to retain their attributes, while reducing the cost of ownership?

    It seems to me that the same questions could apply to Mercedes and Audi.

    Now, I know that some Japanese, cars such as the Infiniti Q45, for example, are also expensive to maintain and repair. However, I believe that their components last longer, and they require less frequent maintenance. Also, the Q45 isn't exactly representative of Japanese luxury cars.

    The Acura TL, which is sometimes cross-shopped with the BMW 3-Series, despite being FWD, is significantly less expensive to own than its German counterparts. I know first hand, because I also own a TL with 115,000 miles on it.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 44,796
    It could be that the cars are more "narrowly engineered" that is to give maximum performance within a certain range of parameters. To achieve this level of precision, it might be that wear and tear is just higher than some cushy squish-bucket bouncing down the road at 1800 rpms.

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  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Posts: 4,201
    "It could be..."

    Maybe, but aren't Infinities, Acuras, and RWD Lexuses similarly narrowly engineered? I assume you make a distinction between precisely engineered and narrowly engineered for performance, because one could argue that ordinary Toyotas and Hondas, as well as other cars today, are precisely engineered. Toyotas and Hondas, especially, are known for having close tolerances. I'm thinking that they're perhaps comparable to at least the near-luxury models from Germany, in terms of precision.

    I know what I'm about to say is probably controversial, but I'm wondering whether the German luxury brand manufacturers charge more for parts because they're less efficient than the Japanese and Americans, and must subsidize their margins on car sales by charging more for parts. And might the less frequent maintenance intervals for the leading Japanese brands, for timing belts, water pumps, and even drive belts and hoses be due to their superior quality?
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 44,796
    I don't think narrow engineering and precision engineering are the same thing....they may overlap but narrow engineering involves more compromises. It's no accident that a Lexus does not even feel remotely like a BMW.

    I think where there is no excuse to be made for German cars is in the electronics. They just don't have that down apparently.

    You buy a Toyota, or even a Scion, and you turn the key and drive away and hardly touch the thing for the next 100, 000 miles; but a German car, you'd be lucky to make it a year without some electrical failure.

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  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Posts: 4,201
    Fortunately for the German cars, their Japanese and American counterparts tend to be more generic and less exciting to drive, which permits the German auto makers to charge more to those who want to drive something that's less ordinary, and more engaging. This is a much narrower niche of the market than the one for economical and reliable transportation modules, but that niche is apparently sufficient to satisfy the German luxury brands. Volkswagen, on the other hand, is much more ambitious, in terms of volume.

    If Audi, BMW and Mercedes have reason to be concerned with the possibility that the Japanese brands could eventually succeed in adding excitement and more heritage to their cars, the Japanese should be concerned that VW could match them on reliability and price, in the next few years.
  • fintailfintail Posts: 33,683
    I'd say the Japanese acquiring German heritage and driving quality is about as likely as VW approaching Japanese reliability. I won't hold my breath ;)

    A key to older luxury cars is parts availability. This is why old Audis are cast off - parts can be insanely hard to find - and this is part of why old MB can soldier on forever, as one can get parts for a 50 year old car right from the dealer. Having aftermarket support helps too.

    A sidemarker bulb on my E55 died yesterday, so when I was out shopping I thought I'd pick one up. I looked in the little book, it gave me the bulb code...I thought the one it referenced seemed odd somehow, but the book said so...I got it home, popped the lens off - not even close. That kind of thing can be a problem too.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 44,796
    Also $1000 for headlights for an old Audi is no fun.(includes outer lenses).

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  • fintailfintail Posts: 33,683
    That's crazy...I can get OEM Bosch Euro assemblies for virtually any old MB for a bit less than that, and decent aftermarket ones for far less.
  • fintailfintail Posts: 33,683
    Speaking of used lux, here's some depreciation...maybe a little miled up for my tastes, but that's a decent price. This economy is destroying the residuals of highline cars.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 44,796
    Look at the mileage though. That's a huge deduct. Think of how scary it's going to be to fix this car out of warranty AFTER you've paid $30K for it. You can gobble up $3,000-$5,000 in one repair order, no problem, on these cars if some sophisticated system goes awry.

    Just for instance, on this particular car:

    Alternator = $1170 + 2.2 labor = (in california) + tax = $1, 560. 00

    Starter: $525 + 1.2 labor = $729

    Stability Control Module: $1,190 + .5 hr = $1, 355.00

    Radiator: $488 + coolant + 2.6 hr labor = $986.00

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  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Posts: 4,201
    With repair expenses like that, my guess is that the majority of people who buy these used cars have little idea about what they're getting into. How could it be otherwise? The economics of owning such a car just make no sense. And with the number of complex electronic features increasing yearly, It'll only get worse. Of course, this recession will sober up some would-be buyers.

    I wish Mercedes, BMW and Audi would each offer one model in North America with fewer electronic features (call it the Mercedes E350DR, for deep recession...I guess now you know why I haven't been extended an offer to be Marketing Manager for Daimler Benz NA).
  • texasestexases Posts: 5,562
    "I wish Mercedes, BMW and Audi would each offer one model in North America with fewer electronic features"

    My wish has always been for a 530i without idrive, sunroof, etc...but then where would BMW make all its money :mad:
  • fintailfintail Posts: 33,683
    Those components are pretty durable on those cars. If anything is going to go, it is the Active Body Control, or maybe some computer related engine sensors. The ABC is probably 5K in itself. One should spend the 3-4K for a warranty on one of those, even if everything has been gone over with a fine tooth comb. Dangerous, but attractive...it'll sell pretty quickly I bet. And keep it away from the dealer.

    The 2000-2002 models are much riskier.
  • fintailfintail Posts: 33,683
    Imagine a roll down window normal suspended tex-upholstered manual-option E-class, with diesels too. The same for the C. Less profit margins, but volume can sometimes compensate for that.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 44,796
    Let's face it---if you have an unlikely but possible major electronic screw-up on a car like that, you can just throw it away.

    complex high end luxury cars of the 21st century will be......

    I PREDICT!!

    "The very first cars to be totalled by insurance companies strictly for electronic failures".

    MODERATOR

  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Posts: 4,201
    I wouldn't choose the Active Body Control option, so its reliability wouldn't be an issue for me. In fact, I'm not sure I'd want it even if it were free. To me, it's overkill. How do you feel about this, fintail, and others?

    Am I in the minority in thinking that simplicity is a virtue?

    What I value most in German luxury cars are the driving dynamics, the ride, the feel and, to an extent, the interior and exterior syling (particularly in Audi and Mercedes).
  • jorg1jorg1 Posts: 1
    i need 5 bmw luxury cars all cars must have white colors same logos on each side and have the beam lite in each car. they seats of the cars should also be in white color. any rental service anyone of you know plz tell me

    Thanks
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 44,796
    www.autotrader.com

    Do "advanced search".

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  • fintailfintail Posts: 33,683
    The problem is that in most really desireable 2003+ models, you can't escape overly complicated suspension management systems. The last E55 to lack them was in 2002. All S class since 2000 have had them and airmatic has been working its way into normal E class too. In 20 years I fear these suspension systems will be a real achilles heel to these cars, should they still be on the road then. It'd be something to have a strippo Euro style model line in NA again, but MB marketing seems to be on a longterm bling fixation, so that hubcapped manual window C class won't be in your future.

    The W210 E55, like the one I have, is considered to be the most reliable AMG e-class, because of its lack of gadgets for the sake of gadgets. Some creature comforts are fun, but they have to keep working after 6 months is reached. I value the same things you do, especially the feel and styling, and I appreciate the heritage.
  • fintailfintail Posts: 33,683
    In another 10 years or so, a W220 S class listing on a broken airmatic system will be considered a total loss, no doubt. Maybe someone will devise a means to retrofit them to a normal suspension, if it's even possible.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 44,796
    The basic laws of economics will kick in, and they will be cruel. Old Benz sedans won't have any real value so repairing them at great cost would have to be a totally irrational act. And sure, you will find the occasional irrational car lover, but for the most part there are definite limits as to how much the average person will sink into an old 4-door car.

    Sure a rare Bugatti is another story-- Ralph Lauren spent one million bucks to RESTORE one!

    You really need WILL POWER when it comes to old luxury cars---you have to know when to just walk away, take your losses and be done with it.

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  • fintailfintail Posts: 33,683
    The same reason no sane person would restore a 6.9 today, and 6.3 restoration is for the rich and eccentric. Nobody would restore a W126 either, but there are enough nice ones out there to meet demand, and they hold up pretty well, no massive component failure to plague an entire platform like in later models. I suspect that won't be the case with modern cars.
  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Posts: 4,201
    "Imagine a roll down window normal suspended tex-upholstered manual-option E-class, with diesels too. The same for the C. Less profit margins, but volume can sometimes compensate for that."

    Yes, less profit margin, and the added volume might or might not compensate for that. It would probably fall short. But, then, I read that Daimler-Benz will probably offer its next generation B-Class car in the U.S., and maybe even its A-Class, and these probably have narrower margins too.
  • fintailfintail Posts: 33,683
    MB has to make insane profits from its overpriced ala carte options strategy. Allowing for really stripped cars would probably not work, especially with a strong Euro and a weak economy in general. It's a nice thought though. It'd also be cool to have a car with an AMG engine but none of the other bling and geegaws.

    B class has had moderate success in Canada - but if you load it up it is hilariously expensive. It does exist in relatively lower trim too though. A class...I'll have to see it to believe it.
  • Hi,
    I think this would be real competition that the Japanese are trying their level best to compete with the Germans.

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