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GM News, New Models and Market Share

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  • bpizzutibpizzuti Posts: 2,743
    Mid Hudson Valley.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHPosts: 7,494
    edited January 2013
    Maybe the Dart (being a name that was used before) has more negative historical reliability than the other retro names that were brought back like the Challenger/Charger.

    Your comparative youth is showing. Darts' reputation was that they were bulletproof--and this from a GM guy.
  • tlongtlong CaliforniaPosts: 4,744
    Mid Hudson Valley.

    Oops! I'm confusing you with somebody else (maybe Andres?). I also know gagrice is east of San Diego.

    We seem to have the east coast, the midwest (OH/MI), CA, and WA (fintail) represented. Not much from the western plains states.
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Posts: 2,743
    There are no western plains states, that's the Rockies. Unless you're thinking Nevada, but people near Las Vegas and Reno have better things to sit in front of than computers. :)
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Dart had a great rep but I'm afraid that doesn't help, since today's Dart would be attracting a younger buyer. Unless he/she asks grandpa to recommend a car. :shades:

    My father-in-law LOVED his Dart.

    Funny thing is I think they're cool. I like the big touch screen and the red detailing on the new GT, maybe that'll help sales:

    http://www.autoblog.com/2013/01/08/2013-dart-gt-will-hold-us-over-until-srt-stok- es-dodges-handsome/
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Posts: 2,743
    Wait, you mean names from the 60s don't have positive equity today? :shades:
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Posts: 4,175
    lol, between the "Standard of the World" Cadillac ads and "New class of World Class" arrogance of Government Motors, I'm surprised they didn't just go with:

    Chevy: "We rule, everything else sux"

    Maybe I'm reading too many GM message boards... :D
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Well, the positive equity had faded.

    Still better than Omni, Neon, Caliber, though. Those had negative equity associated with their names.

    GLHS excepted.
  • fintailfintail Posts: 33,587
    edited January 2013
    What I described is a significant amount of the demo, and also someone here who constantly whines about things appealing to younger people. Deal with this fact: you can sell a young man's car to an old man, but you can't sell an old man's car to a young man. Seems like someone is bitter about youth.

    Generalize away, so long as it has a basis in reality. I like that MB generally has conservative styling and doesn't have as douchetastic a clientele as the other Germans - I don't mind a car that looks boring but doesn't drive boring.
  • busirisbusiris Posts: 3,490
    Your comparative youth is showing. Darts' reputation was that they were bulletproof--and this from a GM guy.

    Yes, a slant 6 Dart was the equivalent of a tank, and a slant 6 would run forever.
  • busirisbusiris Posts: 3,490
    I think you hit the nail on the head.

    The Dart name was out of circulation for so long that an entire generation practically never saw one on the road. Those folks more likely translated compact Mopar with Neon and Omni, which weren't anywhere near the dart in reliability or durability.
  • tlongtlong CaliforniaPosts: 4,744
    There are no western plains states, that's the Rockies. Unless you're thinking Nevada, but people near Las Vegas and Reno have better things to sit in front of than computers

    I meant places like CO/KS/NE/OK. They're west compared with MI/OH.
  • andre1969andre1969 Posts: 21,910
    Well, the positive equity had faded.

    I think the Dart at least went out on a high note, though. I remember one publication testing the 1975 compacts, and they said the Dart seemed more like a well-preserved 1965 car than it did a brand-new car. However, they added that with the way the 70's were turning out, that wasn't necessarily a bad thing!

    The Aspen and Volare, which replaced the Dart and Valiant, sent Chrysler's reputation down the toilet. Although to be fair later models weren't too bad, and some of the derivatives of the 80's, such as the Gran Fury/Diplomat and New Yorker/5th Avenue, were some of the most rugged, durable domestics produced in the 80's.

    Was the Caliber really *that* bad? I drove one once, and while it did nothing for me, I didn't think it was horrible. I think where Chrysler messed up though, was only offering it as sort of a hatchback/crossover. It essentially competed with the likes of the Focus wagon, Matrix and, to a degree, Chrysler's own PT Cruiser. They really should have offered a sedan version as well, since that's what seems to be the volume seller these days in the compact ranges.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHPosts: 7,494
    And all those cars were in the same 'box' on that page with the 1LT Malibu? You know what I'm talking about if you have the magazine. I think you know some of those will have to come out of your, ahem, assessment.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHPosts: 7,494
    edited January 2013
    Someone here certainly does seem sour today.
  • steverstever YooperlandPosts: 40,184
    Subaru customers have no desire for an FF Subaru

    Well, I'll give you 3 out of 4. :) Something like a high GC FWD 40mpg wagon could be a nice option. Guess they'd really have to stick a Toyota name on it or the Crew would storm the NJ home office. :shades:

    33 pages of new Vette pics anyone? The engine shots are pretty neat - they're all the way toward the end.

    2014 Chevrolet Corvette C7 Picture Gallery

    Moderator
    Need help navigating? stever@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.

  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHPosts: 7,494
    Thank you for posting something newsworthy and not the same old thing.

    Even haters gotta say, 'who else builds anything like it? ...and particularly with that content at that price?'
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Posts: 2,743
    Neither rain nor snow nor Hurricane Sandy will stop Subaru fans from invading Cherry Hill, NJ. They all drive Subarus, you know. :shades:

    Generally people who want FF cars don't shop Subaru. Mazda makes a better FF car anyway. Subaru makes excellent FR-style AWD cars based on boxer engines.
  • dieselonedieselone Posts: 5,641
    edited January 2013
    And all those cars were in the same 'box' on that page with the 1LT Malibu?

    I only have access to the website. My post was based on the overall scores of family sedans which the all of the cars I mentioned are part of including the Malibu.

    For the record you're correct about the Malibu 1lt scoring higher than the Passat, Altima 4cyl, and Kia Optima 2.4.
  • dieselonedieselone Posts: 5,641
    Deal with this fact: you can sell a young man's car to an old man, but you can't sell an old man's car to a young man.

    Very true, and I know some old people who don't think they're old enough for an old man's car.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Ghosn announced Nissan's moving Leaf production to TN, which is good because it creates jobs here, but they also announced a big price drop.

    Could hurt Volt sales now that it's much cheaper.

    But ... it also acknowledges that Chevy beat Nissan in this fight, and Nissan had to re-tool for Round Two.

    http://www.autoblog.com/2013/01/14/nissan-leaf-becomes-least-expensive-5-seat-ev- -with-massive-price/

    So Chevy won Round One.

    But in Round Two, the Leaf now starts at $28,800. Add $850 freight, subtract the $7500 federal tax credit, then a $2000 MD state tax credit (adjust for your home state), and I can get a US-built Leaf for a list price of $20,150. Not bad.

    Volt is about 50% more, and only seats 4.

    Also, consider that a Prius and Civic Hybrid start at $24,200, with no credits.

    That $4 grand savings easily pays for the 220v charging station, even if you own 2 homes.

    Question is, can Nissan make a profit at that price?

    Who cares if they lose money? Let them subsidize American jobs at a loss. Ghosn can count the beans to figure out how to do it.
  • tlongtlong CaliforniaPosts: 4,744
    Even haters gotta say, 'who else builds anything like it? ...and particularly with that content at that price?'

    I think it looks good and a nice evolution of the design.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHPosts: 7,494
    The red one in the big picture is an 'in your face' one, but I'd still like a subdued color, non-flashy wheels, base model sometime in my life, to do the Route 66 thing and nice weekenders with the wife when the kids are out...if that ever happens.
  • tlongtlong CaliforniaPosts: 4,744
    The red one in the big picture is an 'in your face' one, but I'd still like a subdued color, non-flashy wheels, base model sometime in my life, to do the Route 66 thing and nice weekenders with the wife when the kids are out...if that ever happens.

    I know you're frugal, but you should really splurge and get a more loaded one (or equivalent other desired car). You only live once. I used to be really frugal like that, too. Then I met my wife and she said "you only live once, you can't take it with you, you work hard, and you deserve to get something you REALLY like". Bless her heart. She helped give me balance. So I bought my last two cars new, and pretty loaded. But I still drive them a really long time, to give me the frugality balance. :blush:
  • andres3andres3 CAPosts: 5,325
    Your comparative youth is showing. Darts' reputation was that they were bulletproof--and this from a GM guy. Your comparative youth is showing. Darts' reputation was that they were bulletproof--and this from a GM guy.

    Fair enough, but then again some of you old timers have been saying that anything from today is way better than anything of the past. The argument is formed such that you can buy anything today and be happy with it's reliability (something I don't agree with by the way).

    So which is it, were old Dart's bulletproof or did old cars suck compared to the reliability of the best cars today?

    I still think early 90's Honda's and Toyota's are about as bulletproof as cars have ever been, of all-time. Of course, early 90's cars didn't have nearly as many features and gadgets as cars of today.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHPosts: 7,494
    I'll tell my wife that tlong told me to 'go for it'!

    Actually, I'm more compelled to 'splurge' on an old car, although I'm without one right now. I'd love another Studebaker, but on the other hand, getting someone to work on it has become more of an issue in this suburbia I live in now. All the shops seem to be 'git 'er in, git 'er out'. In my hometown, about 90 mins. from here, there actually seem to be more shops than around here, per capita anyway, and I could see them being more willing to work on one--small town and all that--but I'm merely guessing of course.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHPosts: 7,494
    edited January 2013
    I know cars last longer today--that is beyond doubt--but I was waaaayyyyy more excited to shop and buy a new car as late as probably thirty years ago than I am now. Resale values were higher (for domestics, anyway), and I could afford to trade every three years, like people did for a long time. Many models and many colors made it fun to go through the brochure and 'pick and choose'. I know those times are gone forever, but it was absolutely magical (to sound goofy about it).

    A huge part of my childhood that is fondly remembered was 'new car introduction night' in the fall, when the new models came out. Something was always restyled, and the cars were hidden until introduction night. It was great fun. Complete restylings generally happened every third year into the late '60's. Ah....that was fun. In our small town, it was also a social thing as you'd see everybody you knew checking out the new cars. Even if somebody bought a new car that summer, they still went down to check the new models out on introduction night, enjoy a donut and glass of cider and pick up all the brochures.
  • andres3andres3 CAPosts: 5,325
    Probably the worst think about the Caliber for me other than the company it came from was that it seemed you could fit a finger or 2 in the gap between the hood and the quarter-panel.

    Didn't CR give it a 30-something score?
  • busirisbusiris Posts: 3,490
    edited January 2013
    So which is it, were old Dart's bulletproof or did old cars suck compared to the reliability of the best cars today?

    I would say the answer is "yes".

    Like any generation of cars, some were better and more reliable than others. In the case of the original Dart, a loaded model usually was one with a heater and AM radio, maybe power steering and automatic transmission. Of course there were a few HiPerformance models, but they didn't count for much of the entire production. These cars were as reliable a car as one could buy back in the day, but that was then, when it was rare for any car to break 100K without some significant service on the engine or transmission, wheel bearings, brakes, etc.

    When I purchase a car today, I have every reason to expect it to go 100K miles (with far more options and conveniences) without any significant problems, other than wear and tear item like brake pads...
  • greg128greg128 Posts: 337
    Bad news for 90% of the posters on this forum, but good news for the taxpayers.
    The value of US Government stock holdings in GM rose by $2.5 billion over the last month.

    I think the Corvette is now overstyled. I like the outgoing model much better. It looks like GM "Sonatized" it.
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