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GM News, New Models and Market Share

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Comments

  • fintailfintail Posts: 33,715
    I think middle managers might be a big part of what has ailed GM to begin with, along with 78 levels of management, and a cradle to grave salaried culture.

    Cut out the surplus overhead (which is the definition of middle management), bring in some under 40s who are looking to do more than pad retirements, and base pay on performance.
  • tlongtlong CaliforniaPosts: 4,752
    I'm looking around to decide what car to replace and which of a large variety of replacements I could choose. Can I trust toyota and Honda to fix things that they find wrong? Or will they stall recalls to try to keep the buzz good? Or would a used model have defects that have been overlooked in the reporting and kept out of recall status just to affect the buzz?

    Well, you've said they're perfect, so I suspect they are your best choices. :P
  • tlongtlong CaliforniaPosts: 4,752
    They tried that back in the early 90's when John Smale (former head of P&G) became chairman and implemented a branding strategy that said people don't care what the cars can do - it's all about the brand. How did that work out?

    That assumes that all smart young up and comers are the same. GM tried Wagoner and now the current guy; how is that working out?
  • tlongtlong CaliforniaPosts: 4,752
    Cut out the surplus overhead (which is the definition of middle management), bring in some under 40s who are looking to do more than pad retirements, and base pay on performance.

    I think we agree here, too much bloat. But the company sure looks old rather than young, which is a large part of their demographics problem. Gotta find a way to turn that around.
  • fintailfintail Posts: 33,715
    edited January 2013
    Move on from making the future dependent on tenured middle managers who likely couldn't hack it if they had to climb the ladder today.
  • tlongtlong CaliforniaPosts: 4,752
    Move on from making the future dependent on tenured middle managers who likely couldn't hack it if they had to climb the ladder today.

    They're going to need *some* middle management. Just pick a low enough quantity and the right ones.

    Believe it or not, managers are people too. There are good and bad ones, just like worker bees or cube rats.
  • fintailfintail Posts: 33,715
    edited January 2013
    I don't think modern cookie cutter MBA derived corporate theory values a "low" amount of management. If anything, it seems to be a greater cost than in the past, as numbers and compensation have both ballooned, often to undefendable levels. Look at the job boards out there. Not much workforce evolution going on.

    Dog kickers and offshorers are people too.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America: I70 & I75Posts: 18,190
    >so I suspect they are your best choices.

    ROFLMAO ;)
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America: I70 & I75Posts: 18,190
    > But the company sure looks old rather than young, which is a large part of their demographics problem.

    Is the GM management of the company top heavy with older folks compared to other major companies here in the US? Someone got statistics on that?

    What they should do is put younger middle-management into positions where they are the "face" that the public sees rather than the older, wiser guys who should'a retired.
  • tlongtlong CaliforniaPosts: 4,752
    Is the GM management of the company top heavy with older folks compared to other major companies here in the US? Someone got statistics on that?

    What I meant is that the public impression of GM is largely a company for the older demographic. I know that they have some new small cars that are looking good, but IMHO they missed out on a rebranding opportunity to give them a fresh start and a new impression to the public. The loyalists would buy them anyway, and a renamed/rebadged GM might have added appeal to a newer, younger set of buyers. Most 20-somethings don't want to be driving Buick or Caddy or often even Chevy. Unless they want a truck.
  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 40,555
    Or should I say "Back to the ever popular recall thread":

    GM recalls 13,680 cars for possible bolt, airbag issues (Reuters)

    GM just can't keep up with Toyota lately. :D

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  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America: I70 & I75Posts: 18,190
    >Back to the ever popular recall thread

    Congratulations to GM on doing recalls in a timely manner.
  • xrunner2xrunner2 Posts: 3,062
    What I meant is that the public impression of GM is largely a company for the older demographic. I know that they have some new small cars that are looking good, but IMHO they missed out on a rebranding opportunity to give them a fresh start and a new impression to the public.

    Too bad our government had to interfere with the GM bankruptcy rather than just letting it play out. Maybe what could have come out of it would be a rebadging also. Something more, "fashionable".

    General Motors does sound stodgy, just like Philip Morris did. That company renamed to Altria.

    The Japanese big three did things right with their luxury divisions. Not only with superior cars compared to the American brands but in clean-sheet names for these divisions. Think of the elegance of the names Lexus, Infiniti, Acura compared to, duhh, General Motors. These names - Lexus, Infiniti, Acura - exude something very fine and desirous, classy, solid and of course, elegant.
  • michaellnomichaellno Posts: 4,300
    The Japanese big three did things right with their luxury divisions. Not only with superior cars compared to the American brands but in clean-sheet names for these divisions. Think of the elegance of the names Lexus, Infiniti, Acura compared to, duhh, General Motors. These names - Lexus, Infiniti, Acura - exude something very fine and desirous, classy, solid and of course, elegant.

    Which is why Acura, and now Cadillac, have moved away from model names in order to better promote the brand.

    Too many people knew about Legend and Integra and not enough about Acura.

    I know lots of folks don't like the alpha-numeric soup of model names, but if you think about it, everybody knows of the 3-series or E-class, regardless of the year. And, most folks could tell you the brand much easier when you give them the model name.

    CTS? A4? Yep, we know what make those are...

    Equus? What's that?

    Of course, Infiniti is going to cock it all up now that every model will be rebranded as "Q"-something-or-other.
  • andre1969andre1969 Posts: 21,971
    CTS? A4? Yep, we know what make those are...

    CTS makes me think of "CFS", which is how we abbreviated "Chicken-Fried Steak" on the guest check when I worked at Denny's.

    A4, that's a transmission option, right? A3, A4, M4, M5, CVT? :P
  • busirisbusiris Posts: 3,490
    Oops, my bad!

    Like Roseanna Roseanadanna used to say....

    Never mind...
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America: I70 & I75Posts: 18,190
    >What I meant is that the public impression of GM is largely a company for the older demographic.

    I think that image is perpetuated by some who want to talk only about an older GM in negative way and some by not having had a definite enough advertising break with the Old GM before the administration reformulated it.

    I think that there is an advertising gap and a perception that the leaders of GM, when they do show up on a program or article, tend to be older than some of the other faces in the news for other companies.
  • fintailfintail Posts: 33,715
    When I think "older GM", I think Lumina and 9-7x and awful interiors, etc. I suspect a lot of the minds involved with those are still on the payroll. That's the old GM that needs to be left in the dust - but is it?
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Posts: 2,743
    But the company sure looks old rather than young, which is a large part of their demographics problem. Gotta find a way to turn that around.

    That's what happens when you rely more on your "heritage" and less on your product. When you base your marketing on trying to kindle fondly remembered "way back when," you get people old enough to fondly remember "way back when."
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHPosts: 7,494
    Toyota wishes their recalls were that size!

    Our local paper's 'auto' section today has an article about a Honda recall of 700K units, but I don't know if that's new or from a week or two ago and just making it into the paper now.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America: I70 & I75Posts: 18,190
    > Honda recall

    Honda? Recall. Say it's not true. :P
  • tlongtlong CaliforniaPosts: 4,752
    >What I meant is that the public impression of GM is largely a company for the older demographic.

    I think that image is perpetuated by some who want to talk only about an older GM in negative way and some by not having had a definite enough advertising break with the Old GM before the administration reformulated it.

    I think that there is an advertising gap and a perception that the leaders of GM, when they do show up on a program or article, tend to be older than some of the other faces in the news for other companies.


    Although I don't have the numbers, seems like I've read that the average age of BMW buyers is a lot younger than Caddy buyers. And we don't even need to talk Buick. I also suspect that Honda/Hyundai buyers are younger on average than Chevrolet. Clearly the opinions of those in this forum or the ages of the execs aren't the major reason why GM's buying demographic is older. I don't think it's going to help GM to pass it all off as older execs. I'm not seeing them do enough to revers the age issue, which will be continuingly important to GM's long term success as the population ages.
  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 40,555
    Happened around Jan. 18th for Pilot and Odyssey owners. Airbag issue.

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  • tlongtlong CaliforniaPosts: 4,752
    Wow busiris, that's exactly what we needed! As expected, Caddy is only out-aged by Lincoln in the luxury space, and Chevy is up there in the mainstream space as well. And of course Buick is the oldest.

    Those actual data confirm what I was saying about GM and the age demographic.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHPosts: 7,494
    edited January 2013
    Chevy's is one year older than Toyota's and Honda's, and the same age as Hyundai's, Ford's, and Subaru's. Not exactly 'aha!' stuff.
  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 40,555
    The average age of Smartcar owners is a bit unexpected. Popular in retirement villages perhaps?

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  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America: I70 & I75Posts: 18,190
    Buick decreased their average age from the first sample year to the second by 4 years. Perhaps that supports more of tlong's point. I was looking at the image projected by the car companies themselves instead of the buyers' demographic.
  • tlongtlong CaliforniaPosts: 4,752
    Buick decreased their average age from the first sample year to the second by 4 years. Perhaps that supports more of tlong's point. I was looking at the image projected by the car companies themselves instead of the buyers' demographic.

    Kudos to Buick for bringing their age down so far. Hopefully they can continue that.

    Chevy may be the same as Hyundai but they are also the same as Toyota, a company known for the older demographic. Honda's is surprisingly similar; I don't think that would have been the case 10 years ago, but their offerings have become more conservative, which is why many people (including me) feel that Honda has lost its way. They've also been working on turning that around.
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,372
    edited January 2013
    Mustang is the all-time winner. More info for the uniformed below:

    image

    This pains me to say, as an auto investor that happens to love his 2010 Mustang GT, but I must give credit where credit is due. The recently remodeled Camaro is one awesome looking ride, and consumers agree -- the Camaro has topped the Mustang for three straight years in U.S. unit sales.

    The trend lines are improving for both, which should bode well for their sales and brand image, as the overall market improves. We'll see if these two muscle car juggernauts battle it out for sales like in the '70s and '80s, but for now Camaro has the edge. However, before you get too worked up, during the 42 years when both models were produced, the Mustang has won the sales title 31 times to the Camaro's 11
    . :shades:

    Go Mustang!

    Regards,
    OW
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