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GM News, New Models and Market Share

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  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    They were dead on for lots of other import brand problem spots.
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,399
    They were dead on for lots of other import brand problem spots.

    They were impeccably accurate with GM's horrid problem spots also. Therefore, the bottom line is they are a good guide. :)

    Regards,
    OW
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHPosts: 7,529
    edited February 2013
    Since they're so accurate, I guess an '11 Malibu is more reliable than the same year Fusion. I'm thinking it might be more so than the same year Sonata as well but I can't remember.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHPosts: 7,529
    Was the 2007 a new model?

    If it was, then I buy into the logic.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    The Sonata turbo seems problematic. Given the non-turbo is not, must be related to the powertrain.

    V1.0 syndrome. Wonder if Hyundai will address the issues soon?

    Interestingly Ford EcoBoost engines also seem to have reliability issues, and what do they have in common?

    DI turbos with High compression but no premium fuel requirement.

    Does the turbo GM engine require premium? Would be interesting to see who gets it right first, in other words a reliable turbo using regular fuel.
  • dieselonedieselone Posts: 5,653
    edited February 2013
    Since they're so accurate, I guess an '11 Malibu is more reliable than the same year Fusion.

    Actually that depends on the model.

    A hybrid Fusion is rated more reliable than the Malibu scoring a solid red circle. V6 models are all rated average except for the AWD fusion that is much worse than average. The 4cyl Malibu is rated above average vs average for the 4cyl Fusion in 2011.

    IMO, looking at the ratings, unless you are looking pre '09, the Fusion and Malibu score similarly enough (outside of AWD which isn't available on the 'Bu) that I'd buy the car I liked better.

    Prior to 2010, the Fusion was rated as one of the most reliable sedans. Changes with the 2010 refresh hurt reliability. OTOH prior to 09, the Malibu had a pretty bad ratings.

    Looking at Truedelta, the Malibu and Fusion are rated really close with the Fusion being rated slightly better. But TD reports small sample sizes for the various years on the Malibu.
  • xrunner2xrunner2 Posts: 3,062
    Funny, that methodology really gives a clue about specific vehicle faults. Still don't get CR, I can get better info off of general car boards.

    Really? Explain how with details vs CR auto tests and their annual car issue in April.

    On GM and CR. Those who subscribe to CR may well look at April issues going back say 10 years. Look at each year, flip through the pages with the circle ratings. Which car company over the years garners most of the full black circles. Who gets most of the full red circles. How is GM doing in this regard? Did it, does it have more black then say Honda, Acura? Is GM improving?
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHPosts: 7,529
    edited February 2013
    I've had GM's my whole adult life. My '11 Malibu is rated 'better than average'. I think the only other GM I've owned that garnered a mark like that is a '77 Impala. That said, I cannot say our Malibu is any better at all at the same age than our Cobalt was. And that's not saying the Malibu is bad; just our experience. So, for the GM cars I've owned, in CR's esteemed (cough) opinion, GM's have improved.

    Still, I am less passionate about GM's I've owned recently than those I owned thirty years ago. That says something to me.
  • xrunner2xrunner2 Posts: 3,062
    Those who have or now "concurrently" own a Chevrolet and a Honda, or a Cadillac and a Lexus, or a Buick and an Acura, or a Ford and a Toyota, etc can have valuable insight as to "relative" merits, pros, cons, comparisons between these brands. Owning, driving, living with a series of ONLY GM, or Ford, or Honda, etc over years, decades does not give perspective.
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Posts: 2,743
    edited February 2013
    Chevy says to put 87 octane in the 1.4T in the Sonic and Cruze too. Not only that, theirs WAS around first I believe. Then again, at 138 HP it's probably a comparatively low pressure turbo.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHPosts: 7,529
    edited February 2013
    True, but I've lived with a looottttttt of rental cars over the years as I've travelled a lot with my job. I'm usually, 'what's so great about this car?'. I know the styling trends I like and when buying something so expensive, why take a chance on another dealer when I have a great dealer? That's part of my perspective.

    I'd say knocking a make because of hearsay without even having sat in one, is even worse...and that's the case here, people have admitted it.
  • tlongtlong CaliforniaPosts: 4,775
    Those who have or now "concurrently" own a Chevrolet and a Honda, or a Cadillac and a Lexus, or a Buick and an Acura, or a Ford and a Toyota, etc can have valuable insight as to "relative" merits, pros, cons, comparisons between these brands. Owning, driving, living with a series of ONLY GM, or Ford, or Honda, etc over years, decades does not give perspective.

    I agree. I've owned a Ford, a Honda, and an Audi at the same time, and you can clearly see the benefits and pitfalls of each. None were perfect nor disastrous, but each had strengths:

    Audi - by far best to drive, most gorgeous interior, but finicky to repair and $$ for parts
    Ford (Mercury) - reliable, heavy, quiet ride, spongy upholstery and seat padding (not a good thing), and poorly assembled and fitting parts
    Honda - good handling, nice interior, extremely reliable, rock solid, firmer ride and noisier than the others
  • dieselonedieselone Posts: 5,653
    edited February 2013
    All I can add is I've generally disliked every GM vehicle I've driven. I couldn't imagine only owning GM vehicles. I'm not particularly happy about two Fords in my garage, but one is free, which is pretty much what it and the GM vehicles before it are worth to me.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    No new Corvette. :cry:

    Did sit in a new Malibu, the rear seat definitely needs to be addressed. Seriously, I think the new Sentra's felt roomier.

    Impala was much better.

    My 10 year old absolutely loved the lime green metallic Spark. A lot of the interior is the same color, down to the cup holders in the door. That'll get scratched quick. Fun design, though, and so cheap who can complain?

    We also checked out the new Buicks - Encore and Verano. I preferred the latter, with more comfy seats and nearly as much room as the Malibu. I can see why it sells well.

    The Encore was not as comfy and some materials don't seem worthy of the Buick badge. Rear seat is tight and visibility is compromised. Better on paper than in person.

    My kids wanted to score each car on a 1 to 5 scale and even took notes! Funny.

    Car, Dad/mom/son/daughter plus kids' notes:

    Encore 3, 3, 3, 3.5
    Small, nice paint, weird windows (visibility issues)

    Verano 3.5, 4, 3.5, 3
    Comfy, sleek, no leg room, cool design

    Enclave 4, 4.5, 4.5, 3
    Plush, no bench seat (no room for the dog), big

    Malibu 3, 3, 3.5, 3
    Plasticky, tight, too low, comfy but small

    Traverse 3, 3, 4, 4.5
    Good price, plasticky, tight, tiny sunroof, big (room for dog), high

    Spark 3, 5, 4, 4
    Fun, small, not for long rides, green color, only 4 seats

    I think mom gave the 5 because our son liked it.

    I'd rent a Verano but the one I'd want to own is the Enclave, even if the dog can't sit next to the kids.
  • dieselonedieselone Posts: 5,653
    Impala was much better.

    Did they have the redesigned Impala?
  • busirisbusiris Posts: 3,490
    True, but I've lived with a looottttttt of rental cars over the years as I've travelled a lot with my job. I'm usually, 'what's so great about this car?'. I know the styling trends I like and when buying something so expensive, why take a chance on another dealer when I have a great dealer? That's part of my perspective.

    Yes, a great dealer can overcome a lot of model/manufacturer drawbacks/deficiencies...
  • andre1969andre1969 Posts: 22,141
    Yeah, they had a 2014 you could sit in. Sort of a driftwood/champagne color with a dark interior that had sort of butterscotch accents (seating surfaces, door inserts, etc). I sat in it, and was pretty impressed. It was one of the few cars where I did NOT have to put the seat all the way back! And, I could fit in the back okay as well.

    I didn't like that interior color, but otherwise, I couldn't really find anything to fault the car. And, I'm sure there will be other interior choices!

    Oh, I do have to give a slight redemption to the Malibu, as well. I went to the show with a friend who's about 5'10". When I put the seat back to the point that I was really comfortable, he couldn't even try getting in the back. However, I could adjust it to the point where I could still tolerate driving it, but sacrificing a little comfort, and he could fit.

    And, with the seat positioned to where he would have it, I fit in the back just fine. I'd still call the Malibu's back seat smallest in the midsize class, but it's not quite as bad as I previously thought.

    Another thing I've noticed is that they've really been plasticking-up the interiors of a lot of cars these days, so it seems the difference between something like an Accord or Camry, versus a Malibu, Fusion, or even a Chrysler 200, has really diminished.

    It also seems like they're almost forcing you to go with leather interiors these days, if you want something nice. The base fabric in most cars is kind of unpleasant to the touch, and looks sort of like something you'd see on outdoor lawn furniture. But, it has sort of a durable feel to it...I'll give it that much.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Yep the new Impala, one on a turn table and another on the floor, with decent traffic around it.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Agree on the plasticky-ness, Nissan is guilty for sure.

    The Pathfinder is a JX minus all the plushness.
  • carthellcarthell Posts: 126
    edited February 2013
    I was there on the 3rd. If big sedans were on my shopping list, the Impala would be near the top. Ironically, I'd be following in the footsteps of my uncle and grandfather if I bought one.

    My means are a bit more modest, so my picks are different.

    I looked at the Scion xB. I had an opportunity to look it over as I pleased, because nobody else was interested. I was able to look at the Mazda 5 as I pleased, also. Great wagovan. I would have concerns about people who are seated in the third row.

    The Focus was slightly interesting. If only the rake of the rear of the car didn't cut the cargo room so much, argh!

    The Honda Insight, an affordable hybrid, has a roofline that I had to limbo under to get into the car!! Aside from a Miata I was given a ride in the late '90s, I've never had to do that with any other car I've been in.

    The Fit is a master of versatility. It appears to have adequate passenger space and have a cargo hold behind the rear seats almost as large as my current vehicle, despite being shorter length-wise.

    The Nissan display was missing the Cube. The Mitsubishi display was simply nonexistent. Hmm.

    My brother's teenaged daughter clambered into every truck that she could get into. The Jeep brand, especially the Wrangler Unlimited, was the vehicle she was most interested in. Neither I nor her parents know how she became interested in trucks. Otherwise, she did try out the Mazda 3, Mini Cooper (all of them), and the C-Max.

    My brother's frame prevents him from ever considering a Wrangler Unlimited, as the top of his head sticking through the moonroof proved. Toyota's Land Cruiser also left him with almost no headroom, but I think the moonroof was a factor there. He can fit into any F-based SUV produced by Ford.

    The Ford display had some interesting distractions for the public to play with. There was a "safe driver" video game where my niece failed spectacularly ("No, that is NOT Grand Theft Auto."), and a torque measuring machine where a player had to arm wrestle a lever as fast as possible, then get a rating of how much force was exerted (vacuum cleaner, lawn mower, motorcycle, etc.). The lever was VERY hard to move, so nobody but either athletes or people who regularly move heavy stuff would get a rating at or better than a motorcycle's.

    Despite having sore calves from walking, and experiencing trouble finding parking space near the convention center (note: take Metro when going to downtown DC!), I had a measure of fun.
  • lemkolemko Posts: 15,204
    edited February 2013
    Heck, I have every single TSB for my 1989 Cadillac Brougham in a binder.
  • lemkolemko Posts: 15,204
    They did? I should've went to the DC show, but I had a lot of things to do this weekend. They had a nice dark blue-green one at Philly, but they didn't let you sit in it. The Impala is a contender to replace my Mercury Grand Marquis. Chevrolet is supposed to be sending me an Impala brochure. The car comes out in March.
  • andre1969andre1969 Posts: 22,141
    It was a pretty nice car, Lemko. I think you'll like it. My personal preference is still toward a 300 or Charger, but I certainly wouldn't be ashamed of the Impala!

    Oh, and right on cue, to give me some temptation at that auto show, my 2000 Park Ave started acting up. Check engine light came on, and the transmission was shifting a little funny. I'm hoping it's nothing too major...if it ends up needing a rebuild, I don't know if it would be worth it.

    The way it came on so suddenly though, I think there's just a sensor or something that's gone bad. I checked the transmission fluid, and it's still full, and nice and pink.
  • dieselonedieselone Posts: 5,653
    edited February 2013
    It was a pretty nice car, Lemko. I think you'll like it. My personal preference is still toward a 300 or Charger, but I certainly wouldn't be ashamed of the Impala!

    GM needs the Impala to do well as Toyota is cleaning up in the premium sedan market. Both the ES350 and Avalon outsold the Lacrosse.

    Jan sales for the Lacrosse: 3548
    XTS: 1900
    Avalon: 4840
    ES350: 5186
    Taurus: 5638 (must have been a lot of fleet orders)
    300: 5325
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Get there early and you can park for free on the street. I was only 4 city blocks away.

    My kids were climbing in to pickup beds and loved the big conversion vans like the NV and Sprinter.

    GM didn't have the new pickups there. This town ain't exactly pickup crazy but still, that was disappointing.

    The whole family (except me) LOVED the Jeep Wrangler. They want one badly. I'm not in love with the mileage in the teens and it's not exactly easy to live with. I like 'em on the 3 days of the years where it's not cold or too hot/humid here in the Mid Atlantic.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Binder full of women TSBs?
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHPosts: 7,529
    What were Jan's sales of the 'old' Impala?
  • andre1969andre1969 Posts: 22,141
    What street did you park on? I thought that, a few years ago, they went and changed all the parking around there on Saturday from free all day to 2-hour max?

    The last time I actually drove down there, I parked in front of a friend's house on 5th Street, which still had no weekend parking restrictions, and we walked down. It was a bit of a hike, but not too bad.

    Oh, and they did have the new pickups there, but they were roped off so you couldn't get in them. They had a Silverado and a Sierra. They were both toward the back of their respective display areas. They looked good IMO...nothing earth-shattering in the styling department, but still pleasant enough.

    One other detail I just remembered. I sat in a LaCrosse...thought it was nice, at first, but then when I hopped out I whacked the hell out of my knee on the edge of the dash. I never noticed it before, but it does jut out a bit, somewhat reminiscent of the old "Dog Leg" A-pillar on old 50's GM and Ford cars with the wraparound windshields.

    You'd think that wouldn't happen on a "large-ish" car. But, I remember doing it once or twice on the Crown Vic and Grand Marquis, as well.
  • dieselonedieselone Posts: 5,653
    What were Jan's sales of the 'old' Impala?

    14,153. I didn't list it as it is mostly fleet and I seriously doubt anyone is cross shopping it with a Lacrosse or Avalon etc.

    I've read that it's now over 70% fleet.
  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 41,919
    edited February 2013
    The whole family (except me) LOVED the Jeep Wrangler.

    Need to find a used one and park it at the beach.

    Chevy is in third place in brand perception.

    Ford, Chevrolet among Consumer Reports' top 6 brands (Detroit News)

    Moderator
    Minivan fan. Feel free to message or email me - stever@edmunds.com.

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