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GM News, New Models and Market Share

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Comments

  • lemkolemko Posts: 15,154
    Heck, I'm making a beeline to the nearest Chevrolet dealer when I find out the new Impala has arrived. If it turns out to be "all that," I may have a replacement for my aging Grand Marquis.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHPosts: 7,494
    edited February 2013
    I gotta say, I can't recall when I've last been as interested in a new Chevrolet as with this new Impala. I predict it won't be a whole lot different driving experience than the current LaCrosse, although I don't like that 'squished' look over the rear doors of that car and I'm told the Impala has a bigger trunk. I don't see us in the market for a new car for quite a while though.

    Would it have killed them to put three taillights on each side--even under a smoked panel a la '87 Thunderbird? LOL

    This Impala, the new trucks, and the new Corvette are three pretty high-profile new products for Chevrolet, coming out about the same time. I wish them well.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    It's vastly improved, I think you will both like it.

    The old one may have sold well but not at profitable prices, and mostly to fleets.

    I predict average transactions prices will jump by thousands.
  • andres3andres3 CAPosts: 5,325
    I wonder if Honda and Toyota could sue the Big 3 for "dumping" cars into the market for years and years at "under cost" so that they drove themselves into a huge bankruptcy and bailout scenario.

    Seems to me they'd have a solid case.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    edited February 2013
    Shoe's on the other foot now. ;)

    For years the Japanese sold small cars at a loss, to get feet in the door.
  • fintailfintail Posts: 33,590
    Not to mention, the domestic strategy actually helped the Japanese via lower resale values and often lesser quality competition.
  • tlongtlong CaliforniaPosts: 4,744
    Not to mention, the domestic strategy actually helped the Japanese via lower resale values and often lesser quality competition.

    And it was the domestics' screaming about the competition that put the "voluntary" import quotas in place, which then led directly to the movement of foreign nameplate manufacturing to this country.
  • berriberri Posts: 4,159
    I see GM is again reducing output at the Fairfax, KS plant because they over producing product like the LaCrosse out of there compared to consumer demand. I believe this is the second time recently. So why is GM sinking a major capital expenditure into this plant to expand production? Am I missing something? Hopefully at least, they have a better union environment than the nasty UAW attitude at the Kansas City Ford plant!
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHPosts: 7,494
    You left out that the new Malibu is built there.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Hopefully after the refresh they can bump production back up.

    They have too much supply now.
  • berriberri Posts: 4,159
    Yeah, I'm curious how they are going to carve out more backseat room in the refresh? I think they stepped on their crank initially coming out with that eco debacle version. Took away trunk space, jacked up the price and really didn't save the buyer much, if anything in annual fuel consumption. I doubt you'd ever get the price differential of the vehicle back, even at $5 gas. Should have waited until they could pump out the 2.5L 4 banger before releasing this version IMO. Of course, Ford may have stepped on theirs with all this turbo emphasis. Turbos make sense in airplanes, but I'm not sure they are worth the premium in an automobile where we're talking torque rather than thrust.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    The C-Max was the biggest disappointment at the auto show. All 3 other family members said No. :(

    Fusion did beat Camry hybrid in CR fuel economy, even if it did not meet EPA numbers.
  • andre1969andre1969 Posts: 21,910
    One things I've noticed, about all the hybrids, is that it seems the hybrid components don't take up as much trunk space as they used to. So in that regard they're getting better.

    I've also noticed that just about everybody these days uses those big gooseneck trunk hinges, that we used to gripe about not so long ago. At least now though, for the most part they're designed so they don't crunch your luggage!
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Posts: 2,743
    Turbos make perfect sense...provided you know how to use one. Which most people don't.

    Turbos are extremely efficient when not operating in boost. Step on the gas, get boost, fuel consumption goes up only as long as you're in boost. Only two problems with this approach:

    1. People don't know this, and dealers aren't telling them. Hence, they are not being driven properly, probably in boost more often than they should be. I say "probably" because...
    2. Most of these turbocharged cars do not have boost gauges, boost lights, or any other indicator to show when the engine is and is not in boost, therefore said generic drone driver doesn't know have the feedback necessary to drive properly anyway.
  • dieselonedieselone Posts: 5,641
    They have too much supply now.

    Way to many Malibus sitting on dealer lots. Our local Chevy dealer has 23 Malibus vs 6 Fusions at my local Ford dealer.

    According to cars.com, there are 53k Malibus and about 27k Fusions on dealer lots.

    I thought GM was idled Malibu production, but regardless they are loaded with Malibus.
  • dieselonedieselone Posts: 5,641
    edited February 2013
    Took away trunk space, jacked up the price and really didn't save the buyer much, if anything in annual fuel consumption. I doubt you'd ever get the price differential of the vehicle back, even at $5 gas.

    The Malibu Eco doesn't appear to get any better gas mileage than a standard 4cyl Accord or Camry (not city ratings anyway). How the Accord is rated for 2mpg better in the city vs. the E-assist Malibu is unbelievable. No wonder Eco has sat around collecting dust, it's a joke. Time for GM to give up on E-assist, it hasn't been successful in any car they've put it in. The Regal sales have all but stopped since making the E-assist standard.
  • berriberri Posts: 4,159
    Some of what you are saying makes sense. Maybe that contributes to why the turbos aren't in reality showing the mileage and performance advantages they advertise. Two things, besides additional price, give me pause though. I believe the turbos increase rpm which may add wear on the internal combustion engine. I haven't driven a recent turbo, but from what I've read it sounds like spool time and turbo lag have been mostly resolved. However, I wonder whether they had to compromise efficiency to get there. Personally, I'll probably stay away until Toyota and Honda start using them in mass. It just seems to me that they generally have better engineering talent and capability than Detroit. So far they aren't moving that way, so it makes me cautious. Internal combustion engines don't inherently operate like turbines. One other thought, maybe people aren't driving them like you mention because the downsized engines don't have the performance without the turbo kicking in? 1.6L is pretty small by itself in something like a Fusion and I never thought Ford was that good at making efficient, performance oriented drive trains to begin with.
  • dieselonedieselone Posts: 5,641
    I believe the turbos increase rpm which may add wear on the internal combustion engine. I haven't driven a recent turbo, but from what I've read it sounds like spool time and turbo lag have been mostly resolved.

    The current crop of low pressure direct injected turbos will produce more power at a lower rpm vs a normally aspirated engine. I know Ford's v6 Ecoboost has a max rpm that is lower than a normal 3.5 v6. Using low pressure turbos means using fairly small turbos which can limit air flow at high rpm. These engines are designed for low rpm torque vs. high rpm HP, so they really don't need to run high rpm.

    I've seen dyno runs comparing Ford's 3.5 Ecoboost vs the 5.0 v8 in the f150. The EB max HP was produced at about 5,200 rpm vs 5,900rpm for the v8. Also max torque output on the EB is around 2500-3000rpm vs over 4k rpm for the 5.0 V8.

    The few DI Turbos I've driven are impressive in their low rpm power delivery and minimal turbo lag.
  • tlongtlong CaliforniaPosts: 4,744
    I think they stepped on their crank initially coming out with that eco debacle version.

    Isn't the eco just round two of the failed "mild hybrid" system? I mean, it failed the first time, and it failed the second time. It's just not a very good system. And of course, the two-mode hybrids failed as well. The Volt is the only one of their three hybrid systems that is decent technologically, but of course that fails (more than even most other hybrids) on an economic level. So as a business, GM's hybrids are zero for three, whereas Toyota's hybrids are one for one.
  • dieselonedieselone Posts: 5,641
    Isn't the eco just round two of the failed "mild hybrid" system? I mean, it failed the first time, and it failed the second time. It's just not a very good system. And of course, the two-mode hybrids failed as well.

    I think GM made a calculated error in developing the 2 mode system for the trucks and SUVs. The math may have made sense, but a hybrid car looses little capability vs. the hybrid trucks and SUVs that lost a ton of towing capacity.

    While it maybe true that most 1/2 ton owners don't tow over 6k lbs, I don't think most would willingly give it up just for a few MPG. Not to mention the first models had the hideously huge HYBRID stickers on the sides. Plus the Hybrid is not a cheap option. I just don't think truck buyers are going to pay more money for a more expensive, more complicated, and less capable truck. I think they only sold 3k hybrid pickups in '12 and the new trucks will no longer offer the hybrid.
  • dieselonedieselone Posts: 5,641
    That's not surprising and is needed.
  • andre1969andre1969 Posts: 21,910
    At least nowadays they're able to halt production for a bit. Back in the day, they would have simply kept those assembly lines rolling, dumped a bunch into fleets, and piled on the incentives to keep them moving off of dealer lots.
  • dieselonedieselone Posts: 5,641
    At least nowadays they're able to halt production for a bit. Back in the day, they would have simply kept those assembly lines rolling, dumped a bunch into fleets, and piled on the incentives to keep them moving off of dealer lots.

    That's for sure.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHPosts: 7,494
    edited February 2013
    Growing up about 40 miles from Lordstown, I seem to remember 'down times' to 'correct' inventories, even 'back in the day'. When Lordstown hiccupped, it was on area TV then.

    I know Studebaker frequently laid off when inventories swelled.
  • dieselonedieselone Posts: 5,641
    edited February 2013
    I'm sure for a variety of reasons, it seems like GM just used more rebates and fleet dumping to attempt to move excess inventory. But the GM of the 90's and 2000's was far different than the GM of the 60's and early 70's. For one thing they didn't have nearly as many retirees to support.

    Currently the auto industry is not in a downturn, sales have been increasing for 3 years straight and is looking to have the best year since 07. Yet GM finds itself with to much inventory? None of the other major manufacturers appear to have that problem.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    I'll probably stay away until Toyota and Honda start using them in mass

    Acura just dropped the turbo from the RDX, choosing a big V6 instead. Ironically it's more fuel efficient, too.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHPosts: 7,494
    edited February 2013
    I've said this before, but as a customer, this doesn't bother me. It means good prices. I won't buy a car at sticker price--never have in 32 years, don't want to start now. But I get your point.

    I know that in the past few years, I've often heard when this maker or another was closing down to 'correct inventories'. GM may have the biggest inventory now, but it hasn't been a uniquely GM thing, even in the fairly recent past.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Toyota just launched the Plug-in Prius, wonder how demand is for that one?

    We have to give it a year and then see how inventory levels are. Basically below 60 days is good, above that means sales aren't meeting forecasts.
  • PiP finished out 2012 #2 in sales apparently but January was quite a bit down from December and fell back to #3.

    Model S: 1,200
    Volt: 1,140
    Prius Plug-in: 874
    Leaf: 600

    January 2013 Plug-In Electric Vehicle Sales Report Card

    Plug in has also not fully lanched in all 50 states so numbers should improve...
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