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GM News, New Models and Market Share

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  • dieselonedieselone Posts: 5,641
    I know that my impressions of GM were very negative well before the bailout. I actually think they've improved quite a bit, just not to where they need to be.

    That pretty well describes my position on GM.

    Once the Impala is replaced, GM should be in a good competitive position with most of their products. They have a few I'd consider at least.
  • steverstever YooperlandPosts: 40,137
    Sounds good.

    Wonder how the discussion would be going if Ford had not been able to get private financing and gone through a bailout too?

    (Not counting all the loans and grants they got for EVs and such stuff).

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  • tlongtlong CaliforniaPosts: 4,742
    Another example of what I'm talking about is, when CR's Malibu actually scored higher than other much-talked about cars here, no one--and I mean no one--said a single thing about that, until I brought it up.

    I know you don't like people leaving things out, but you conveniently left out any real response to what I said, choosing to divert to a new subject, instead. Repeating this kind of statement is exhausting to me!
  • tlongtlong CaliforniaPosts: 4,742
    Americans love underdogs so much, GM should take a page from Avis and talk about how they are trying harder.

    But are they? I bring the new Malibu as exhibit #1. :shades:
  • tlongtlong CaliforniaPosts: 4,742
    edited February 2013
    LOL, that might be one of our major exports;)

    You know the saying: In the U.S. we used to make things. Now wemake things up! (in reference to our "financial prowess" :surprise:
  • tlongtlong CaliforniaPosts: 4,742
    Wonder how the discussion would be going if Ford had not been able to get private financing and gone through a bailout too?

    I suspect the venom would be fairly high. But not as high as GM, since Ford was smaller to begin with. Also, they did show *some* evidence of effort over the years (Quality is Job 1, etc.).
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Posts: 5,682
    edited February 2013
    Also, they probably overprice them. Frankly, they should just give them away for free to former Neon owners as an apology.

    Actually, the low-end 2013 Dodge Dart is priced around $16,000. Someone at the hospital I work at bought a silver one, I want to find out who that person is so I can ask them about their new ride. Remember, the new Dodge Dart rides on the Alfa Romeo Giulietta platform, and in the compact category that is no slouch at all for riding and handling abilities.

    Now, having said that, I would not want to buy a new Dart because it can't even come close to touching my 2008 Mitsubishi Lancer GTS. Mitsu's Lancer line-up, especially the GTS (now GT) line is hard to beat for value, fun, handling, looks and rockin' Rockford Fosgate stereos. :shades:
    T'was worth every penny I paid for it. I'm sticking with Mitsubshi. I was sitting in the store parking lot tonight idling and the engine barely makes a noise at all. Fine Japanese build quality there.

    image

    2008 Mitsubishi Lancer GTS

  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHPosts: 7,494
    edited February 2013
    tlong, your original post said only "I don't have the numbers" (implying 'right here with me'), but then go on to say "I suspect Honda/Hyundai numbers are less than Chevrolet". Not...really...so. Did you correct yourself when the numbers were posted? No, you said, "Chevy is up there in the mainstream numbers as well"...no mention that Hyundai had the identical age and Honda was only one year younger. I had to point that out to you here. ;)

    I agree with everybody here that the Eco Malibu debuting first was a mistake, and the reduced rear-seat legroom is a bad thing. But still, when people post factual errors (not opinions, things posted as fact) here it doesn't boost their position. Same with leaving obvious, relevant things out of a discussion, on purpose.
  • dieselonedieselone Posts: 5,641
    http://www.edmunds.com/auto-shows/chicago/2013/2014-chevrolet-cruze-clean-turbo-- diesel-starts-at-25695.html

    Looks to be interesting. Price seems a bit steep and I don't understand why GM isn't offering a manual trans. Maybe they don't have one that can handle the torque, but you'd think there is one laying around from for use in Europe. I think it's a mistake not to offer a manual.

    While I love diesels, I just don't know if this car makes much sense over a Cruze Eco. It will be a bit quicker I believe, but for $5k more and the fact diesel is running 20 to 30% higher than RUG around here anyway, the diesel likely won't have much of an economical advantage.

    Being nearly $2k more than a Jetta diesel could be a problem too. I wonder if the Cruze has more standard equipment.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America: I70 & I75Posts: 18,067
    >I know that my impressions of GM were very negative well before the bailout.

    Was that because of the Nader era where GM was criticized for being one of the military industrial complex companies that were so evil during the 70s? 80? GM had a GNP 9th in the world among countries IIRC. So they were hated just for being big.

    Another factor is that somewhere in that lineage it because socially acceptable to scapegoat GM. Sort of like the Cubs my departed father-in-law loved so much over everything else around him other than beer and his family--God bless his soul (not). But even on Edmunds it's apparent that some of the talk is just that it has always been acceptable to bash GM. I even heard it on the radio talk sponsored by an Acura dealer--they acted like Honda has special rear brake caliper setups and GM's were simple just like the fronts rather than required turn-in to reset for new pads. It's just okay to bash GM in other threads on Edmunds. But when a certain company's sludge, excuse me, gel, problems were repeatedly brought up in the forum for same, the sludge discussion was closed. Would that have been closed if it were GM sludge being talk about? Naaaah. We'd still have it 20 years later.

    What's surprising is that folks who actually are thinking about what is going on show the scapegoating behavior and attitudes toward GM, when they should be able to separate old/new, past/present. Some here do show that discriminatory ability in between just bashing while the present just flies over others.

    >my impressions of GM were very negative well before the bailout.

    The bailout has the problem of being a divisive political move to protect unions rather than a true bailout. That's in another forum here so I'll let that stand. A parallel appears to be the purpose behind the post office union treatment currently. GM's big problem is the cost of the old, high seniority UAW workers and top management that is perceived as old school rather than hip like Hyundai's or Honda's. Often the hatred of the UAW comes up in discussions of GM's past problems. And it still has to affect the ability to put money into the raw materials for the product--instead that goes to the higher cost of the union workers in the US.
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Posts: 4,174
    edited February 2013
    What do you drive, anything? I drive a Cobalt and my wife drives an '11 Malibu. It'd be interesting to see about recalls on what you drive, but I honestly don't remember you saying.

    I've got a 6 year old Subaru Impreza with a bit over 120k last I looked and my wife has a 5 year old Outback with about 9x,000 miles. Had one recall on mine for a PCV valve and the wifes had a recall for the same thing and something related to the suspension(I don't remember it was a few years ago...).

    I also have a 9 year old Honda S2000 which is my summer car and has about 21k miles but has never had any recalls nor unscheduled repairs. I do need to do a brake job in the spring, but it will be the first repair outside of "routine" scheduled maintainence... :shades:
  • dieselonedieselone Posts: 5,641
    edited February 2013
    Was that because of the Nader era where GM was criticized for being one of the military industrial complex companies that were so evil during the 70s? 80? GM had a GNP 9th in the world among countries IIRC. So they were hated just for being big.

    For me, it was the simple fact that the type of cars I liked growing up, GM didn't make or what they did make, was lousy IMO.

    Then add the few GM products I've owned or have sampled as company cars have been lousy for a variety of reasons too. I've never owned or even sampled a GM car that I could write a good review about.

    That doesn't mean GM doesn't make anything I'd like, I just have sampled one yet. But I haven't driven a new GM product in a while, so I can't comment on the current crop of GM cars. Okay, I have briefly driven a new Equinox, but it was such a short trip, all I can say is I wasn't a fan of the buzzy 4 cylinder (but I'd likely say that about most 4 bangers).
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHPosts: 7,494
    Brakes at 21K?
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHPosts: 7,494
    Both Chevies are NOT RECOMMENDED

    Please add that the reason they are not "recommended" (as opposed to "NOT RECOMMENDED" as you posted), was that the Malibu is a completely new car and there is no reliability record for it yet.

    Again, it tested above the Optima, Nissan, VW and others in the lowest-priced class, and BTW you also failed to mention (shocker) that even the Eco version of the Malibu rated ahead of the Sonata Hybrid.
  • steverstever YooperlandPosts: 40,137
    edited February 2013
    But when a certain company's sludge, excuse me, gel, problems were repeatedly brought up in the forum for same, the sludge discussion was closed.

    Ah, you're bringing back memories. :shades:

    The discussion was about sludge specifically though, not the whole company. There is a Toyota on the mend? discussion right here in Auto News where you can gripe about SUA and all the recalls.

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  • I'm always wondering why this forum is GM specific when there is another one specifically for "fans"? I think that is a source of disappointment for alot of the GM "fans", there is hardly any action over there and yet this one, criticism and all, is the most popular... Not enough kool aid drinkers here ;)

    And IMHO, the Ford discussion forum is quiet because I think alot of those fans come here to discuss. I've been an Edmunds member for 8 years or so and for as long as I remember, this thread as de-railed numerous times away from the actual topic. Whether it be GM vs. Ford, Imports vs. GM, imports vs. Ford... Then there's pages of comparisons between cars from the 50's, 60's and 70's which I bet most posters weren't even alive for :D

    My recommendation is to just re-name this thread as "Domestic cars, new models and market share" or something. Just my .02
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Posts: 4,174
    edited February 2013
    Oh, and regarding Chrysler, I think they have kind of slipped thru alot of the discussions because they kind of walk the fine line with Domestic car fans and Import car fans.

    As I see it, Domestic car fans (not all, but many) will use them as ammo for calling out us "idiot" "unAmerican" Import fans to "Buy Murican", yet being partially owned (fully owned by 2014 btw) by FIAT, they are not willing to admit to supporting a "Furrin" automaker.

    The Import fans remember the Chryslers "Bad years" and I think alot of them respect the efforts being made to re-group and re-build a once respectable automaker. Plus, Chrysler in General I think take alot more risks and really try to go against the grain with a product that doesn't follow the mainstream market. Look at their dedication to RWD cars like the 300, Charger and the late Magnum. What other automaker puts that kind of stuff out that isn't a 50 -60 thousand dollar Tuetonic masterpiece from Europe?

    Chrysler still has plenty of "venom" and so does Ford. We just don't fully realize it because the name of this thread is "GM news and MS".
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Posts: 4,174
    edited February 2013
    Yes, 21k. It's not a daily driver, it's a car that gets driven... hard. I also need to replace the tires every 15k and change the rear diff fluid every year. :D

    What do you think the lifespan of brakes on a hard driven Corvette are? Or a Porsche?

    Plus, they are 9 years old. And who knows, all I have experienced is a bit of wiggle when I deccellerate on the highway, they might just need to be re-surfaced. :shades:
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHPosts: 7,494
    Man, those Honda rotors sure don't last. ;)

    I'm just razzing you, you know that.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America: I70 & I75Posts: 18,067
    >those Honda rotors sure don't last.

    "Supplier's fault." That's the excuse over in certain other forums. :blush: :P ;)
  • 2014 CTS

    Front end is OK, if a bit busy. I see a bit of C-class in the way the grill jutts out and those lights are neat but that chrome moustache is a bit much...

    The back end is a big ol mess. Looks like something that would have come out in the 90's. Very soft, like it should be on a Deville or DTS.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    when CR's Malibu actually scored higher than other much-talked about cars here, no one--and I mean no one--said a single thing about that, until I brought it up

    You read it before I did.

    Also, you've repeated that about 12 times, but the Eco scores poorly, and the plain Malibu beat the Legacy by just 2 points, while the upscale Legacy beat the Eco by a dozen points. So the Legacys had a higher average.

    Not to mention, even if we limit the discussion to the entry models the Accord smoked them both by a wide margin.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHPosts: 7,494
    edited February 2013
    No question about the Accord, but you have to admit that the conversation here is stacked.

    As usual, so much relevant was just left out of the discussion here. I firmly believe that had I not mentioned it, it would have never made it here at all.

    What is your opinion that the base Malibu tested better than the base Legacy?
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    No comments on an important new product? Come on folks. People just argue, the product doesn't really matter at all, does it? :sick:

    The price is ambitious, but so it the equipment. Leather standard? Was that necessary? 17" rims, too? Auto only is probably OK, that's the volume sale anyway.

    I'm worried. Malibu Eco was also priced at $26k, and we all know how that turned out.

    $5k more than an Eco will limit sales to rabid diesel fans in America. All 5 of them.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHPosts: 7,494
    A diesel domestic car? That can't be a good thing since Korea or Japan didn't do it. ;)
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Meh, I like it. Strong family resemblance, you know right away it's a Cadillac, yet it looks fresh.
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Posts: 4,174
    edited February 2013
    I'm glad to see more diesel options but I think they are going to hit a brick wall when it comes to pricing... as well as making a case when selling against GM's own Cruze Eco model that gets the same mileage for thousands more. Nice amount of twist tho :shades:

    One other tidbit I read on the Chevy site.

    Clean diesels generate at least 90% less Nitrogen Oxide (NOx) and particulate emissions when compared to previous-generation diesels.

    It all starts with a 2.0L turbocharged clean diesel engine designed in Italy, built in Germany and installed in the Cruze at our factory in Lordstown, Ohio.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    the conversation here is stacked

    Same way in the Toyota threads. When times are bad folks like xlu were bashing away, as things got better he vanished. Textbook trolling.

    When the tsunami hit one guy said they deserved it, the posts were so tasteless the hosts had to delete them.

    Both here and there I share news links and discuss NEWS, which is what this thread should be about, not decades old stereotypes and biases.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Is it a Vauxhall unit, though? I wonder if it was designed in house by a GM division overseas, or contracted out to a 3rd party.

    up's got a point, the Koreans and Japanese have yet to sort out a diesel that meets CARB emissions.
  • fintailfintail Posts: 33,567
    First thing I thought when I saw that rear end was 2000 DTS. Hopefully that's not the finished product, CTS needs to be edgier. At least it is bigger now, not that weird tweener size.
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