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GM News, New Models and Market Share

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  • tlongtlong CaliforniaPosts: 4,744
    For years, GM has been telling us that GMC was "Professional Grade". Is that supposed to mean it is better in one or more ways than their other offerings with Chevrolet? Or, was GM trying to suggest that GMC, rather than Chevrolet, was Professional Grade in that professionals, building contractors, supervisors, ranch foremen, etc drove GMC trucks and mere workers, carpenters, bricklayers, etc drove Chevrolets. Was GM trying to set up a class distinction?

    ...and that must mean that the Acadia is a professional grade family SUV. :P
  • busirisbusiris Posts: 3,490
    Corvette, Camaro, Impala, Malibu, and Suburban were in use in 1975. What Toyota and Honda names are being used now that were used then? Corolla, and Civic. Cavalier was used for 24 model years.

    Toyota has dumped Solara, Echo, Tercel, MR2, Corona, Cressida, and more I'm missing for sure.


    With the exception of Corvette (mainly due to its highly-targeted market), I wonder if long-running names really mean much in today's market.

    From what I've seen, buyers don't really seem to put much stock in a long running name these days, although in years passed it certainly was a great selling point.

    The car market seems rife with so many makes and models now.

    Would Toyota sell as many units of the Carolla if they changed the name?
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Posts: 2,743
    edited February 2013
    Corvette, Camaro, Impala, Malibu, and Suburban were in use in 1975. What Toyota and Honda names are being used now that were used then? Corolla, and Civic. Cavalier was used for 24 model years.

    Toyota has dumped Solara, Echo, Tercel, MR2, Corona, Cressida, and more I'm missing for sure.


    Camaro, Impala, and Malibu were in use in 1975, then dropped, and eventually the names were re-used on new models. That's completely different from being in continuous use since 1975 like Civic, Corvette, and Suburban.

    The Corvette and Suburban are successful models for GM. The names have positive equity and therefore were retained, like Civic, Accord, Corolla, and Camry, among many others.

    Chevrolet has dumped the Vega, Chevelle, Chevette, Beretta, Corsica, Citation, Cavalier, Metro, Prizm, S-10, (S-10) Blazer, Cobalt, and Caprice. That's without touching the rest of GM.
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Posts: 2,743
    With the exception of Corvette (mainly due to its highly-targeted market), I wonder if long-running names really mean much in today's market.

    Establishing a new name is basically establishing a new brand. It's expensive, first from the various researching involved to avoid trademark or copyright issues, and then the marketing campaigns that have to be built around building the name up.

    Cheaper to keep using the same name, provided it hasn't generated too much negative equity by being on a bad car. Then you have to spend marketing money trying to shed the negative reputation. Which is not cheap, and as Uplanderguy can attest, not that easy to get doubters to swallow either. :shades:
  • fintailfintail Posts: 33,561
    Also Celebrity, Uplander, Astro, HHR, Monza, Monte Carlo...I'll give SSR a break as it was meant to be limited run (I hope).

    The Cavalier one is kind of sad. Kept it around for 24 years, then killed it - because they had eroded 100% of any brand equity it contained.
  • tlongtlong CaliforniaPosts: 4,744
    The Cavalier one is kind of sad. Kept it around for 24 years, then killed it - because they had eroded 100% of any brand equity it contained.

    You could say they were just too *cavalier* about it.... :P
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHPosts: 7,494
    edited February 2013
    Well, I guess you can't blame them for dropping a name when they don't build that type of vehicle at all anymore...like Uplander, Astro, HHR, and Monte Carlo from your list.

    Even Toyota dropped Corona, then Cressida, which essentially became Avalon, and Tercel and Echo which were just basic bottom-line econo cars, not something like a sports model which just went away a la Supra.

    And I'm not sure what caused them to add Scion, which doesn't seem to be anybody's idea of a great marketing concept.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHPosts: 7,494
    I don't know where to check, but I'd say that even in its final model year the Cavalier probably still sold in the Top Ten. Not sure how 'eroded' sales became.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHPosts: 7,494
    You are correct; the Biscayne came out in '58.
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,366
    Why would GM have spent many millions on commercials over the years telling us that GMC is "Professional Grade".

    Never believe the commercials. I found out first hand. :)

    Regards,
    OW
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,366
    GM was number one at one time and then their future became "tenuous" decades before the doors closed. ;)

    Regards,
    OW
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHPosts: 7,494
    edited February 2013
    I might add to all who still say about Impala, Malibu, and Camaro names were dropped and came back....not every change of a model name is due to negative equity in the old. It's all about marketing (sadly).

    I don't believe the names Impala, Malibu, and Camaro would have returned if they had the big negative equity so many seem to say. But as is so exhaustively usual here, only GM name changes are a negative....Toyota's aren't even mentioned, until I do it.
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,366
    Not sure how 'eroded' sales became.

    Perhaps not sales but surely profits in a company so diseased it basically failed years before the final curtain.

    Like most discontinued models, GM's business model was.... :lemon:

    Regards,
    OW
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHPosts: 7,494
    edited February 2013
    Chevrolet has dumped the Vega, Chevelle, Chevette, Beretta, Corsica, Citation, Cavalier, Metro, Prizm, S-10, (S-10) Blazer, Cobalt, and Caprice. That's without touching the rest of GM.

    Come on pal, they've been making Caprices for a couple years now...my city's police force uses them. They're at least as available to you, me, and everybody else as those Captivas, and the SS's you told me were available last fall ;.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHPosts: 7,494
    I appreciate your posting this. You can see how much reaction it got from the regulars here.
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,366
    edited February 2013
    Used Cars to Avoid - Chevrolet
    Camaro - '11
    Cobalt -'06, '08
    Cruze - '11
    Equinox - '05, '08
    Impala - '02; '04 - '08
    Malibu (4-Cyl.) - '05
    Malibu (V-6) - 02; - '07 - '08; '11


    Let me know if anyone wants to see the Pickup/SUV categories.

    Buyer beware.

    Regards,
    OW
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Careful, your turbo is likely to make that list, too.

    Drove a non-turbo EX yesterday, it exceeded my expectations. Check the Chronic Car Buyers for details as it is off topic here.
  • and even settle into the look a bit. Then I look at my '08 Mitsubishi Lancer GTS (the benchmark for compact/midsize sedans, come on!) and get a sense of complete automotive well-being! :P

    2008 Mitsubishi Lancer GTS

  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHPosts: 7,494
    edited February 2013
    You're mentioning this like it's 'hot off the press', but isn't this issue a year old by now? Wouldn't the 2013 issue be out now, that includes 2012 model cars?

    Again, I doubt an '11 Malibu V6 is less reliable than the '08-10. Why would it be?

    Geez, guess I shoulda bought an '07 or '09 Cobalt--LMAO. Still waiting for that damn cheap OEM Cobalt battery to die yet...but the dumb thing just keeps turning right over, even sitting outside all the time in single-digit temps. You literally cannot tell it is running at idle...all for under $10K new. It may be the smartest new-car purchase I've ever made (I'd much-rather spend extra $$ on an old hobby car over a new daily driver though).
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Don't jinx your battery...
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHPosts: 7,494
    edited February 2013
    You know how GM supposedly cheaps out on even the smallest parts. ;)

    I will say this...it used to be that you could tell when a battery was going by the way the car cranked. Seems like the last couple or so batteries I've replaced just crapped out without warning.

    Back to believing I did the right thing buying the Cobalt new....I've bought four new Chevrolets since April '02, and paid cash for all of them. I've loved having no car payments. That's been the right thing for me. The affordability has been a good thing.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    My battery just quit, but it was 7 years old so can't complain. Always happens in the cold when you're far from home. LOL

    I got a jump and then replaced it.

    I financed my '91 Escort but paid it off early and since then I've saved up and paid cash each time.
  • busirisbusiris Posts: 3,490
    I don't believe the names Impala, Malibu, and Camaro would have returned if they had the big negative equity so many seem to say.

    I think that's a fair statement. Why start out with a hindrance?

    Certainly, the marketing types (which I assume did marketing tests) understand the value of name equity, which is why we haven't, nor will we ever again, see a Chevrolet Vega, at least, in our lifetime.

    Chrysler demonstrated there was a niche market for cars like the Challenger to return, to compete with the Mustang. Seems to me it was natural for Camaro to return to the same market segment, too. Lots of Boomers that have $$$ now that couldn't afford a muscle car back when the originals were out.

    If Chrysler had been in better shape over the last decade, maybe we would have see Road Runners and GTX's, too.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America: I70 & I75Posts: 18,076
    edited February 2013
    >My battery just quit, but it was 7 years old

    Which car was it in? Seven years is good for your environment somewhere in the DC area--hot, hot in summer and cold in winter. Our battery in the leSabre made it 5-7 years, but it's under the rear seat in a moderate environment compared to the engine compartment.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHPosts: 7,494
    edited February 2013
    Just saw the March CR at the drugstore. They tested three Fusions. The Hybrid scored high...87. The SE scored 82, a point behind the Malibu LS. The Titanium scored 76. They had a sidebar about rough construction quality on their early examples (even I won't complain too much about that; I think it's been that way since the mists of prehistory when a new model comes out). Exactly like the Malibu, they didn't say they were "NOT RECOMMENDED" (ahem--oh, how the semantics make a world of difference), they didn't have a "Recommended" mark next to them because of undetermined reliability since they are new products.

    I wonder if a certain unnamed regular here will go over to the Ford forum and post in capital letters, "CR SAYS NEW FUSION NOT RECOMMENDED".
  • xrunner2xrunner2 Posts: 3,062
    I don't know where to check, but I'd say that even in its final model year the Cavalier probably still sold in the Top Ten. Not sure how 'eroded' sales became.

    No doubt, low-information or no-information consumers chose the 2005 Cavalier over the world class and benchmark Civic.

    Here is what Edmunds said about each:

    Cavalier:

    Despite various revisions, there's no hiding the fact that the 2005 Chevrolet Cavalier was engineered more than a decade ago, leaving it hopelessly outclassed by nearly every other car on the market.

    Pros: Low price, torquey four-cylinder engine, optional satellite radio and OnStar.

    Cons: Ancient design inside and out, cheap interior materials, poor build quality, low resale value, poor side-impact and front-offset crash test results, ABS no longer standard.

    Civic:

    Still the head of its class, the 2005 Honda Civic is the most refined, solidly built economy car on the market.

    Pros: Fuel-efficient and environmentally friendly engines, roomy interior, reputation for durability and quality, impressive crash test scores.

    Cons: Top-of-the-line models are pricey, antilock brakes not available on DX or LX.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHPosts: 7,494
    edited February 2013
    If you wish to let Edmunds make your entire decision for you, as opposed to your pocketbook, I'm very happy for you. ;)

    Again--phenomenally arrogant to tell someone why they should or shouldn't have bought a certain vehicle. I doubt the Cavalier was out of the top ten the entire 24 years it was built. My much-younger B-I-L drove our '97 at 105K miles. He was man enough to say, "I expected it to be a POS but it wasn't at all". Of course, he needed to borrow a car because whatever ancient import he was driving at the time was down.

    But I doubt I'll do any convincing. You're the guy more than one person here tried to show that even the creators of the Mustang said they were influenced by the Monza, but they didn't know as much as you. :lemon:

    BTW, I'm surprised certain models of the Civic could not be had with ABS at any price. While I remember being disappointed that GM took it off the standard equipment list that late (both my base Cavaliers had it as standard equipment), GM was an industry leader in providing ABS standard, for years, on even its cheapest cars.
  • xrunner2xrunner2 Posts: 3,062
    edited February 2013
    If you wish to let Edmunds make your entire decision for you, as opposed to your pocketbook, I'm very happy for you.

    Smart consumers consider a variety of input in making their buying decisions, whether for cars or refrigerators. Input would include from those such as Edmunds, CR, Car and Driver, Motor Trend, Road and Track, Automobile and other publications whose job is to test and evaluate and give opinions on cars and other motor vehicles.

    Of course, after reading what those who make their living testing cars say, then visits to car dealer showrooms, inspection of car, test drives (plural) on a variety of roads of 2, 3, 4, 5, etc cars in the market segment one is considering is prudent.

    Now, given this regimen, if price or low price alone is not a criterion, what percent of consumers who did "due diligence" before purchase actually chose a Cavalier over a Civic?
  • steverstever YooperlandPosts: 40,153
    edited February 2013
    You missed a few. I've read that most people check around 18 sources when car shopping and the new kids hit more like 24 sites.

    That said, crowd wisdom can break down. And it probably breaks down more frequently than new cars do. :shades:

    Moderator
    Need help navigating? stever@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.

  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHPosts: 7,494
    edited February 2013
    I think in that class, pricing was very important to a lot of people; hence, the Cavalier's sales success over two decades. Frankly, I thought my '02 coupe, especially, was a handsome-looking car with the 15 inch aluminum wheels and a very subtle decklid spoiler, and the coupe's low beltline and teardrop-shaped side windows. I liked the styling better than the more fussy Sunfire. It was a very reliable car over the 112K miles I drove it, too. Like my Cobalt, it didn't spend a single night in a garage.

    People who live in my city, and who live in my old hometown, both worked at the plant my Cavaliers were built in. I like that, and there's no bad in any of that.
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