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GM News, New Models and Market Share



  • andre1969andre1969 Posts: 21,849
    Heck, I just got out of a Kia that only averaged something like 14.8 mpg! :sick: However, I guess I should mention the was a Kia Opirus (or rather "OP RUS", as the I was missing on the trunk) rental car in Aruba, with about 66,000 KM on it. Essentially, what we got here in the States as the Amanti. I dunno what year it was or what engine it had, but it was pretty beat on. Every single body panel, with the exception of the trunklid had some kind of scrape or dent. Steering felt loose, numb, and sloppy, the belts squealed from time to time, and sometimes it cranked awhile before starting. Oh, and it had a roach in it! :surprise:

    But, to be fair, rental cars, or any car for that matter, probably lives a very rough life down there. We had the a/c running all the time, usually full blast, and just about all the driving was local stop and go, very rare that I even had the chance to get up to 80 kph.

    I kinda looked down my nose at the car when Avis gave it to me. But all in all, it wasn't a bad car. It was fairly comfortable and roomy, and had a big trunk...seemed much roomier than the 16 cubic feet the EPA rates it at. I just hope we didn't bring any roaches back home, because of it! :blush:
  • dieselonedieselone Posts: 5,641
    Oh, and it had a roach in it!

    Was it the kind that is a creepy crawly, or the type Cheech might have left behind?;)
  • berriberri Posts: 4,141
    Andre is in Aruba my [non-permissible content removed]...Fintail posted a pix of his Park Ave. in Europe over on I spotted a classic car!
  • busirisbusiris Posts: 3,490
    Remember... A bad ride always beats a good walk!
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,354
    There's treatment for obsessions and compulsions today, you know.

    Yes. GM-Disease is easily curable. :shades:

  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHPosts: 7,494
    If they come off of sticker that easily then something is wrong with the sticker pricing.

    Your relative youth is showing.

    It's been that way since the mists of prehistory in the auto-buying world.
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,354
    I beleive my statemet was I achieved 37 mpg on long strictly hwy trips. That was with the oem nexen tires. I dropped 3mpg's with the new Khumo Ecsta 4x tires rated at AA traction.

    I consistently get 26mpg tank/tank on commutes to work which is stop and go turnpike/back roads 50/50.

    Seems my model wasn't affected! ;)

    EPA Investigation Prompts Carmaker to Correct Inflated Mileage Claims

    1 mpg in most cases. No big deal but like I said before, GM-Disease is highly contagious given the quest to be #1 instead of "The Best".

    I noticed sales of the Malibu have fallen well below the Optima. What's going on?? :blush:

  • bpizzutibpizzuti Posts: 2,743
    It's been that way since the mists of prehistory in the auto-buying world.

    Only for auto companies that required bailouts. Gee, maybe there's a pattern there! :shades:
  • busirisbusiris Posts: 3,490
    True, ever since I was a child I remember my father negotiating car prices.

    What changed over my lifetime was the amount, in $$$ and %%%, of those discounts.

    Unless it was a year-end clearance of bloated model lineups in the 1960's, getting anything like a 10% discount on a new car purchase was unheard of.

    Today, with manufacturer rebates, dealer discounts and special programs (ie., student, military, first time buyer discounts), its certainly not unheard of to see a $20K car discounted well over $2K, even before the price "dickering" begins.

    And, from the car buying I've done in my life, the Big-3 seem to be leading the pack in that regard.

    It's great for a buyer wanting the highly discounted product, and it may indeed be an excellent deal, but it does nothing to improve the image of the selling car company. In fact, it "brands" it with an inferior image.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHPosts: 7,494
    I can only reply with 'duh'. Trust me, it's been like that for Ford since the mists of prehistory, too. You just were in diapers then apparently.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHPosts: 7,494
    I'm not an 'image' buyer, although we could afford to be. Never was, never will be.
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Posts: 2,743
    And yet Honda, Toyota, Subaru, and Mazda are generally able to sell at or close to MSRP.

    Your reply tells me you don't care, obviously your GM does things the right way and it matters not if they lose money, right?
  • fezofezo Posts: 9,328
    I can only reply with 'duh'. Trust me, it's been like that for Ford since the mists of prehistory, too. You just were in diapers then apparently.

    I know that this time your rude comment was not directed at me but it's the one that puts you over the top. You've made it to my ignore list.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    GM. Toyota, Ford, etc etc have been criticized, and rightly so, for designing to the EPA tests

    Problem could be the test itself, which is performed on a dyno indoors, which all sorts of mathematical corrections. Lots of numbers to play with.

    I keep reading that idle start/stop doesn't affect EPA number, but it sure would change real world mileage.

    I'm skeptical when I see Ford claiming the C Max beats its rival by +7mpg, it just doesn't sound realistic. If it actually does, it would be on my short list for my minivan replacement, as I will likely downsize the family car next time around.
  • busirisbusiris Posts: 3,490
    "And yet Honda, Toyota, Subaru, and Mazda are generally able to sell at or close to list..."

    That's sort of the point I was making. And, it isn't just those brands...

    GM's attempt at implementing "no discount selling", ala Saturn, was a failure, both in its pricing strategy and product lineup. Dent free door and body panels? Not on any recently made Saturn that I remember. Saturn simply became America's Opel dealer.

    The pricing strategy failed because buyers knew who owned Saturn, and if the Saturn dealer wouldn't discount, the guy right down the street at the next big-3 dealership would be more than happy to oblige.

    I give credit to GM for its attempt to break out of the "discount pricing" model, but it was never going to work due to the way the rest of GM operated its sales patterns.

    Apple certainly has proven you can gain market share, without discounting, by selling desirable products. Some may say "only yuppee-types buy Apple stuff", but it's awful difficult to argue with Apple's results... And there isn't any shortage of competition in the market Apple operates in, either.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    I think the reason GM uses incentives is that it allows them to artificially increase sales figures, on paper at least.

    If they really did cut discounts, claimed income would drop.

    Example: say a car sells for $25,000 but comes with a $3000 rebate. On paper, they will add $25,000 to sales, and then add a line item for incentives at ($3000) to offset.

    Truth is it was $22000 in sales, not $25k.

    But by adding the rebate, they can claim sales are 3/22 = 14% greater!

    The real loser is the consumer, in states like MD you pay sales tax on the pre-rebate amount. At 6% here in MD, that means you pay an extra $180 in state sales tax just so GM can fudge their income statement to look better.

    Dealer friends I speak to ask for Factory-to-dealer incentives instead, because that's not taxed, and lowers the price a consumer pays by that $180.

    It's basically a game of numbers. If GM eliminated all rebates tomorrow and instead just lowered prices by the same amount, Wall Street would scream murder about a huge drop in "sales" the next quarter and the stock would plummet.

    It's a messed up system.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHPosts: 7,494
    edited November 2012
    I'm sorry about that, but your choice of course. I have been far more on the receiving end of rude and even idiotic comments here...only a couple posters in particular...but I haven't yet felt the need to use the 'ignore' feature. Ignore away, though. (By 'idiotic', I primarily mean factually incorrect. Anyone can have an opinion of course, but the factually-incorrect stuff I've seen on here is just, well...staggering.)

    Did the poster who claims people who 'Buy 'Murican' are racist, make it to your 'ignore' list?

    I could only add that apparently you haven't been reading two or three of the regular posters' posts here, for very long.

    I don't go on a Toyota forum and spew venom... because I don't like Toyotas. But there's a lot of the opposite that goes on here.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHPosts: 7,494
    edited November 2012
    Well, since the Malibu is a new car and only available with anything but the Eco engine in the past sixty days, I would say that was to be expected. You're famous for leaving out stuff that should be in the discussion...but you know that already.

    What in your opinion is the reason for Hyundai's reliability free fall of late?
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHPosts: 7,494
    Since we usually traded-in a car, it wasn't easy to figure out what could be obtained off sticker for a new car in the late '60's/early '70's, but I do remember these couple of points:

    1) The first GM rebates I'm aware of were on 1975 model cars, in Feb. of that year. The Chevy Monza 2+2 had a $500 rebate which was over 10% of base retail. I know this because I had two friends whose parents bought new Monzas during the rebate period. The one ordered a 4-cyl. but when it couldn't be delivered by the end of the month, bought a V8 instead to get the rebate. My friend wasn't exactly crestfallen about that. ;)

    2) I remember our new 1973 Nova, which was a popular model of the Number One nameplate at the time. Sticker was $2,625 including destination for a six, three-speed coupe. We were trading in a six, stick '67 Chevelle for which we got $550 trade. I remember at the time our salesman (there for decades) who offered Dad $400 off without trade. Dad didn't want the hassle of trying to sell a car so 'bit'. In other words, we were offered $400 off on a $2,625 sticker...well more than 10%.

    My longtime coworker, a Ford guy, bought his first new car in '68--a Torino--and he and I have often said that, although not always, it seems like you got more off on a new car then than now, percentage-wise.
  • fezofezo Posts: 9,328
    OK. Sorry I overreacted. (BTW, if there is an actual ignore feature I'm un aware of it.) I just get so tired of the tone that gets going in here and no, you are not the only one - we could all name your #1 counterpart who is even more over the top.

    It's too interesting a topic to ignore so I'll still be in here and, yes, Im still talking to you. Peace?
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