Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!





GM News, New Models and Market Share

1142714281430143214331576

Comments

  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,353
    All time, Mustang beats Camaro. Period! :shades:

    Give it up already! :shades:

    Regards,
    OW
  • berriberri Posts: 4,141
    I generally liked Mustangs better than Camaro's with the exception of the early 70's. However, my favorite is an early 70's Dodge Challenger. My problem with the current Camaro and Challenger is that they are built off of a larger chassis and look chopped to me. The current Mustang just looks more proportioned as a Pony car in my opinion. But I know many will disagree and there are probably some other areas where the Ford trails once you get past initial looks. The old good looks versus nice personality argument!
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Posts: 2,743
    The current Camaro and Challenger are based off of full-size car platforms and weigh well over 3500 pounds. The Mustang is 3400. Frankly they're all an embarrassment to the lightweight pony car concept but Camaro's 3780 lbs is even more embarrassing (though admittedly not as embarrassing as the Challenger's 3830 lbs). All figures are for the V6 variants BTW, the performance V8 versions are even heavier.

    Pony car USED to mean "affordable, compact, highly styled car with a sporty or performance-oriented image." Well, these days that's (among others) the Focus ST, Mazdaspeed 3, Subie WRX, FIAT500 Abarth, and the Civic Si. (and *shudder* the Veloster Turbo) Not the full-size monstrosities that are the Challenger and Camaro. Wake me up when Chevy's SS division goes at the Cruze and Sonic (the RS doesn't count). Dodge has already promised a Dart R/T.
  • tlongtlong CaliforniaPosts: 4,737
    Apparently GM is doing just that, judging by the Malibu refresh story.

    For balance, Honda is also doing an accelerated refresh on the Civic.

    Both the Civic and the Malibu were poor updates to fairly well-regarded previous models.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHPosts: 7,494
    Stay focused, circle! We're not talking since 1965, we're talking the current iteration. The Camaro has outsold the Mustang. You were wrong. The last two months--and I'm trusting your numbers--do indeed indicate a turnaround--finally.

    I may have missed your comments here about Ford's recalls of late. I know GM's, even on a smaller scale, would've been mentioned. And to say "this is a GM forum" is a cop-out. If that were the case, no other makers would ever get mentioned here.
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,353
    Stay focused, circle! We're not talking since 1965, we're talking the current iteration. The Camaro has outsold the Mustang. You were wrong.
    Mustang vs. Camaro: The question is: Which is the ALL-TIME sales leader?

    I never mentioned "since 2009". That was you dreaming again. :surprise:

    Apparently, the shine is off the Camaro this last few months. OH, well, time to put CAMARO back in Moth Balls for 5 years or so! ;)

    Fixed Or Recalled Daily. Stay away from GM, F and C for the next 5-10 years!

    Take your pick of far better choices! :shades:

    Regards,
    OW
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,353
    Agree the size/weight is far too excessive but I think the Challenger is the best match from the "Lost Pony-Car Decade". Anyone see 'Vanishing Point'?

    Regards,
    OW
  • dieselonedieselone Posts: 5,641
    may have missed your comments here about Ford's recalls of late.

    I know I've brought it up. While I like several of Fords new products, I don't think I'd buy any without an extended comprehensive warranty.

    The Fusion/Escape recall has the potential to be disastrous for Ford depending on how quick they can solve the problem.
  • busirisbusiris Posts: 3,490
    The Fusion/Escape recall has the potential to be disastrous for Ford depending on how quick they can solve the problem

    So true, especially since the only word I've seen so far is to "park your car and wait for further updates".

    That telegraphs the message that Ford really doesn't have much of a clue as to the root cause of the problem. One has to wonder how such an issue made it through the quality control and testing phases before going into production.
  • dieselonedieselone Posts: 5,641
    So true, especially since the only word I've seen so far is to "park your car and wait for further updates".

    That telegraphs the message that Ford really doesn't have much of a clue as to the root cause of the problem. One has to wonder how such an issue made it through the quality control and testing phases before going into production.


    No question. From what I've read, I don't even know if they've isolated the cause yet. Not good. Ford doesn't have the brand equity of Toyota to withstand a major quality issue. For whatever reason if it's only effecting the cars recalled to date, it might not be to big of an issue, but if it also affects the cars coming off the line, then the success of both the Fusion and Escape could be in jeopardy.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Both the Civic and the Malibu were poor updates to fairly well-regarded previous models

    True, and good point.

    Honda had to discount the Civic, but it did sell well. Problem is transactions prices were lower than for Elantra. Who would have predicted that a decade ago?

    I think the strategy of launching the mild hybrid Malibu first was a major fail. It just doesn't put up the numbers to get any marketing traction, and it was expensive. Now that the mainstream engine and cheaper models are out, it's not as new as the competition.

    Better to launch either the cheapest model first (quick sales interest, get it to be popular) or the sportiest model first (to win magazine comparisons).

    Launch the not-so-green model first and nobody cares, even GoGreenAutoEverythingBlog.com.
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Posts: 2,743
    The problem is that they got caught flat-footed by the release of the new Altima, and tried to get something out quick that would look competitive with it, particularly when it comes to MPGs.

    They should have stuck with plan A.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Well, it's tough to sell a Malibu priced like a full hybrid Camry but one that can't match the regular Altima's mileage.

    $26 grand base ain't cheap. In that price class expectations are higher.

    Personally? I would have looked for a left over previous generation model, there were bargains to be had. I think those held up the numbers artificially at first.
  • andre1969andre1969 Posts: 21,849
    Personally? I would have looked for a left over previous generation model, there were bargains to be had. I think those held up the numbers artificially at first.

    Heck, I'd STILL look for a previous-gen Malibu, even if I had to go used, before I'd take the 2013. For one thing, the Malibu doesn't even register with me as a midsized car anymore. That, and the lack of a V-6 option puts it on par with large-ish compacts like the Dart, Cruze, and Sentra in my mind. However, it comes in at a higher price point, so for me at least, it's just priced out of its market.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    My sedan pick would be a Fusion 1.6l EcoBoost with auto start/stop.

    Unfortunately they're, um, hotter than even Ford intended. :D

    Maybe a 2l EcoBoost AWD Fusion.
  • dieselonedieselone Posts: 5,641
    Unfortunately they're, um, hotter than even Ford intended. :D

    That's continuous improvement. It used to be you had to hit a ford for it to catch fire, now they do it automatically;)
  • busirisbusiris Posts: 3,490
    According to an article in today's US Today, there were 2 fires reported on the model while the cars were being assembled inside the manufacturing plant.

    According to a letter Ford sent to the NHTSA, Ford said "that two of the reported fires actually occurred at the Louisville assembly plant where the Escape is made. "

    Spokesman Said Deep (really, that's the name in the article) "says the plant is continuing to build Escapes with the 1.6 liter EcoBoost even though the cause of the fires has yet to be pinpointed and a fix devised."

    Say, WHAT?!?!?
  • andres3andres3 CAPosts: 5,325
    One has to wonder how such an issue made it through the quality control and testing phases before going into production.

    I'd be curious to see what the Big 3 budgeted for quality control and testing yearly, since 1980, and how that compares with better car manufacturers.

    Also, I'd be curious to see the performance evaluations of those who worked in those departments of the Big 3, assuming they even had anyone doing quality control or testing; figured the budget was $0.00 for that at Chrysler.
  • busirisbusiris Posts: 3,490
    edited December 2012
    When there are 2 incidents of fires on the assembly line, before the product even makes it out the door, and production continues without delay, I can only come to the conclusion that the most important factor (above all others) is to get product out the door, regardless of quality.

    Now, imagine a situation in which the entire plant management staff was given a short time frame (24-48 hours) to resolve the issue, or kicked to the unemployment curb.

    How long does one think it would take to resolve the issue then?
  • robr2robr2 BostonPosts: 7,742
    Spokesman Said Deep (really, that's the name in the article) "says the plant is continuing to build Escapes with the 1.6 liter EcoBoost even though the cause of the fires has yet to be pinpointed and a fix devised."

    Say, WHAT?!?!?


    They are probably building them and parking them somewhere awaiting resolution.
Sign In or Register to comment.