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GM News, New Models and Market Share

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Comments

  • andres3andres3 CAPosts: 5,278
    Glad to see bonuses for UAW workers is more important to the Big 3 than paying back the taxpayers and making the country whole! :sick:
  • andres3andres3 CAPosts: 5,278
    edited December 2012
    Both of these examples are why I would never judge a vehicle based on a rental experience, other than the design layout, comfort, etc. I've seen car renters that could break a hammer and anvil...

    That's one way to look at it I suppose. A reasonable view I'm sure. I, however, take the other side and as an owner, I particularly want to know how a car works, runs, lasts under hard use, such as rentals.

    Good demonstration of durability, reliability, being driving by different people under different conditions.

    If it can't handle the heat, I might not want it. (If the rental agency skimps on maintenance, that's another can of worms). I've always imagined rental agencies to be vigilent on routine maintenance intervals.
  • andres3andres3 CAPosts: 5,278
    No, but I've owned something HQ'd in the same city.
  • tlongtlong CaliforniaPosts: 4,695
    If you don't mind me asking, where did/do you live with tha Audi A4?

    Near the LA metro area. I had a pretty good mechanic, but was going to the dealer for a while. And that was sort of a bend-over period ($$). Although they were certainly nice, they couldn't always diagnose the problem correctly.
  • maple2maple2 Posts: 177
    No, but I've owned something HQ'd in the same city.

    Michigan is a city now?
  • fintailfintail Posts: 32,887
    edited December 2012
    Banks should have been split, and many financial leadership types should have been sent off to Alcatraz or worse. But now they are still traipsing around Manhattan, deciding if they should buy a Rolls or a Bugatti, enabled by my taxes. Just as some nations continue to stir the pit on my and your dime. I'd rather the latter be cut off and the monies used against deficit/debt or maybe to aid domestic industry too. What's good for our competition should be good for us.

    I don't see any changes that would GM from getting sick again. You are correct that a normal bk could have fared better, but it also could have collapsed and caused an economic tidal wave of sorts. I think in this case, the feds were engaging in risk mitigation, at a price of course.
  • fintailfintail Posts: 32,887
    I've never had a car with a factory warranty, so I am even pickier. Anything that seems off, I just don't buy to begin with. When the aftermarket warranty on my current car was about 3 months from expiration, I took it to my indy mechanic and told him to fix anything amiss that the warranty would cover. Would a Chevy dealer do that? :shades:
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America: I70 & I75Posts: 17,690
    >You are correct that a normal bk could have fared better, but it also could have collapsed

    A normal bankruptcy with the federal government providing cash to keep things going was what most smart folks were expecting. Instead the idea that a crisis is a terrible thing to waste was used to give ownership to the UAW taking it away from bondholders as far as equity left in value of the old GM. In a bankruptcy as described earlier and money supplied by the government, the unions would have started over on negotiations. The high cost of labor for GM would have been mitigated and a much stronger GM in terms of pricing, money spent on R&D, quality of interiors, would all have helped the current position. Even the choice of size for the new Malibu would have been more market oriented.

    So the wrong games were played in the bankruptcy and GM is still being criticized for doing the best they can under the "leadership" of the government we have.

    This message has been approved.

  • Stever@EdmundsStever@Edmunds YooperlandPosts: 38,916
    edited December 2012
    "The creditors' suit challenges a lockup agreement in which several hedge funds agreed to accept $367 million to settle $1.3 billion in claims against Old GM, known in bankruptcy court as Motors Liquidation.
    Attorney Michael Richman, who represented a group of unsecured creditors during the bankruptcy, said GM's restructuring could have ended differently if the hedge fund deal had been disclosed immediately."

    Creditors' claims that old General Motors shorted them will be ruled on soon by a federal bankruptcy judge (Detroit Free Press)
  • fintailfintail Posts: 32,887
    I don't recall much government oversight being suggested in speculation before the deed was done, but I didn't pay close attention. I assumed some of our treacherous private equity men would have been at the helm, those who have done so much for the national employment spectrum. I don't know if the labor rates would have been instantly dissolved, nor the issues of interior quality and Malibu design etc that seem to stem from the minds of entrenched lifer upper management than from union expenses.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHPosts: 7,326
    I have never once had my dealer tell me 'no' on a warranty issue. That's for real.
  • tlongtlong CaliforniaPosts: 4,695
    You are correct that a normal bk could have fared better, but it also could have collapsed and caused an economic tidal wave of sorts. I think in this case, the feds were engaging in risk mitigation, at a price of course.

    Risk-based, certainly. With these things you can't run both sides of the experiment. We can conjecture on what would have happened. There are scenarios from most good things to mostly bad things. And nobody can really know how it would have turned out had the bailout of GM and C not happened.
  • tlongtlong CaliforniaPosts: 4,695
    In a bankruptcy as described earlier and money supplied by the government, the unions would have started over on negotiations. The high cost of labor for GM would have been mitigated and a much stronger GM in terms of pricing, money spent on R&D, quality of interiors, would all have helped the current position. Even the choice of size for the new Malibu would have been more market oriented.

    So the wrong games were played in the bankruptcy and GM is still being criticized for doing the best they can under the "leadership" of the government we have.


    Absolutely.
  • andres3andres3 CAPosts: 5,278
    edited December 2012
    A normal bankruptcy with the federal government providing cash to keep things going was what most smart folks were expecting.

    I find a fundamental flaw in your analysis.

    First, usually the smark folks follow the smart money and the smart money follows the smart folks.

    Second, if the smart folks were expecting a wonderful GM through bankruptcy, then they should have put up the smart money instead of the government.

    Why would the Federal Government need to provide cash when the smart folks have plenty of smart money to have moved GM along.

    I think the truth is that the smart money and folks wouldn't touch GM with a 10' pole.
  • andres3andres3 CAPosts: 5,278
    Detroit????
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHPosts: 7,326
    Ah, so that's why you post constantly on a GM forum? You owned a Chrysler, but its headquarters is in the same city as GM. Makes perfect sense to me.
  • andre1969andre1969 Posts: 21,578
    edited December 2012
    That black thing that Spike drove was a 1959 DeSoto. It was a 4-door hardtop, and one of the bigger models, but I can't remember if it was a Firedome or Fireflite.

    Umm, not that I'm a devout fan of the show, either! :P
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Posts: 2,743
    Sorry, couldn't really tell between the blacked-out windows and the hip-deep pile of bottles.

    Not that I started watching Smallville because I heard James Marsters was in it or anything. :P
  • busirisbusiris Posts: 3,443
    I think the truth is that the smart money and folks wouldn't touch GM with a 10' pole.

    After working over the years and being involved in capital-raising ventures, I often find the term "smart money" laughable... Not that there isn't some smart money, but that there is so much stupid money that so many interpret as smart money, if for no other reason than it simply being available money.

    IMO, relatively speaking, smart money is in the minority.

    As I see it relating to the bailouts, the smart thing to do was to just sit on the cash until some market direction could be determined, while everyone else was so overextended by hedging and speculation they simply didn't have any available cash reserves.

    In any case, what's done is done. While debating the issue of whether or not it should have happened will go on for decades, it won't make any difference.

    I'm looking to see if GM can change its old ways on its second chance at life, much like the guy that has potential but never uses it, has a brush with death, then decides to do something meaningful with his life. Of course, he may simply decide to keep on doing the same things, too.

    Time will tell. I would say GM better make it stick this time. I really don't see round 2 of government funding/bailout coming anytime soon. What I do see is the continued consolidation within the global auto industry in which fewer players are around in 10, 20 years.
  • andres3andres3 CAPosts: 5,278
    edited December 2012
    I've had rental Cavalier's, Cobalts, Aveo's, and Malibu Classics all from GM.

    Even a Buick LeSabre.

    None of these rental experiences gave me any confidence in the way the Big 3 is making cars.

    For balance... the Cobalt was way better than the Cavalier. But that's like saying Tebow is better than Sanchez.
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