Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!





GM News, New Models and Market Share

1145414551457145914601576

Comments

  • andres3andres3 CAPosts: 5,284
    Even Toyota And Nissan discontinue and/or replace model names. Tercel, Echo, Solara, and Stanza

    The bottom end of the lineup at Toyota was never very good. The smart money bought a Corolla, and skipped the Tercel, Echo, Versa combination.

    The Solara was just a Camry with 2 doors. Camry's still sold.

    Stanza... not sure if that became the Sentra, Altima, or Maxima???

    Listing the 260Z is a bit unfair to Nissan, as they now have the 370Z which is the same model with a different engine size. Unlike GM, some manufacturers actually upgrade their engines through the years :P 350Z falls in the same category. Maybe you could argue on the 200SX.
  • andres3andres3 CAPosts: 5,284
    But many here say that CR's ratings of reliability are unreliable ;) :P

    Nevermind that at 95,000 miles it was time to replace my motor mounts in the '06 A3. Motor mounts are listed under "Engine-Minor" in CR.

    Lo and behold, there's a black dot on Engine - Minor for my car in CR.

    It's a conspiracy!
  • andre1969andre1969 Posts: 21,597
    The Stanza replaced the old mid-range Datsun 510, and itself was replaced by the Altima. IIRC, the first-year, 1993 Altimas were technically "Stanza Altimas".

    Datsun/Nissan had a habit of doing that kind of stuff with their names. IIRC, the first Stanza was technically a "510/Stanza". And I think the first Maxima was an 810/Maxima. And for some reason I'm recalling a 210/Sentra.

    My mom and stepdad had a 1991 Stanza. It was a good car until around 90,000 miles, when the transmission started to crap out, but they limped it along to around 120,000 miles when they sold it, and the tranny hadn't failed yet. By that time, the Stanza was the same basic design as the Maxima, just more upright and boxy, and with a 4-cyl engine rather than the Maxima's hot (for the time) V-6.
  • busirisbusiris Posts: 3,455
    Oh, that's just the audible signal letting the driver know he/she is successfully turning the steering wheel.

    It's a "no-charge" option...

    They can simply take it to any dealer and have it reprogrammed to where the audible noise option is canceled.
  • andres3andres3 CAPosts: 5,284
    and with a 4-cyl engine rather than the Maxima's hot (for the time) V-6.

    I remember lusting after the new '92 Maxima with its 190 HP V6 as I was nearing my driving age at the time (but still a couple years off).
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHPosts: 7,370
    xrunner, on this forum we've had the CR discussion a zillion times. Some swear by it, some say it's total c***, and some (me, most of the time) think it's interesting to look at but they (CR) take themselves too seriously ('buy the '07, 09, and '10 but avoid the '08!'--stuff like that). But that's just me.

    Although on another Edmunds forum it shows Nissan having pretty high owner complaints--higher than GM and Chrysler--funny, they're the Japanese make that most often has seemed the most appealing to me. I'm not embarrassed to admit the '02 Altima turned my head, as did whatever years Maxima (early '90's I think?) had a very clean basic shape with wall-to-wall taillights and I believe was the first car I ever saw with that pretty pearlescent white paint.
  • fintailfintail Posts: 32,941
    There's definitely marketing and intentional obsolescence involved. Sadly, GM marketing has been pretty awful for the past couple decades.

    Using Impala and Malibu as long lived names is kind of tenuous - both of them were dead for a long time, and of course Camaro was killed off too.

    Lately, names get killed off because brand equity becomes negative.
  • dieselonedieselone Posts: 5,634
    edited December 2012
    Although on another Edmunds forum it shows Nissan having pretty high owner complaints--higher than GM and Chrysler-

    You'll dismiss complaints about GM vehicles on CR due to sample error, yet use complaints on Edmunds forums?

    I'm willing to be the cash in my wallet that GM, Ford, and Chrysler owners are less likely to utilize internet resources regarding there vehicles. Thus leading to sample error;)

    Ex.

    There are approximately 33k posts on the Honda Civic forums vs about 9k for the Cavalier, Cobalt, and Cruze, COMBINED! GMs best selling vehicles, the Silverado and Sierra have about 19k posts combined. The Ford F series only has about 9k posts.
  • dieselonedieselone Posts: 5,634
    Lately, names get killed off because brand equity becomes negative.

    Exactly
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHPosts: 7,370
    edited December 2012
    Best to comment on something like this after actually looking at it. See post 171 by the Edmunds host.

    Complaints to NHTSA, 2005-November 2012:

    andre1969, "Worst Cars" #153, 20 Jun 2006 7:21 am

    Note: Nothing like "Avoid the 2007 Altima, but the 2006, 2008 and 2009 are fine".

    Still, no one can convince me that a Terrain was worse than the same-year Equinox. Same hands touch them, and I don't think a different wheel opening shape or exterior door sheemetal will make reliability differences. But hey, that's me.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHPosts: 7,370
    Using Impala and Malibu as long lived names is kind of tenuous - both of them were dead for a long time, and of course Camaro was killed off too.

    Using your 'negative equity' argument, would the names have been brought back? Hardly.

    Even taking the missing years into account, I, personally, am hard-pressed to come up with any model names used for more model years than Impala, Malibu, and Camaro--from any manufacturer. Silverado and Suburban and Corvette have been used without any breaks.
  • dieselonedieselone Posts: 5,634
    Using your 'negative equity' argument, would the names have been brought back? Hardly.

    That shows how inept GM marketing is.

    Same with Ford. The killed the Taurus, rightfully so, then bring the name back because they believe it has brand equity. Yeah right, only if you're on a Hertz lot.
  • busirisbusiris Posts: 3,455
    You'll dismiss complaints about GM vehicles on CR due to sample error, yet use complaints on Edmunds forums?

    I'm willing to be the cash in my wallet that GM, Ford, and Chrysler owners are less likely to utilize internet resources regarding there vehicles. Thus leading to sample error;)


    It doesn't get less scientific than using the number of postings on a forum to determine the quality of a vehicle.

    Forums fail both the "validity and reliability" tests needed to accurately measure results.

    At best, forum postings are only indicators. Does a single poster making 100's of comments based upon a single personal experience on a single vehicle carry as much weight as a scientifically designed survey (that works both on positive and negative viewpoints)?

    Only to those looking to re-enforce the conclusions they've already made.
  • dieselonedieselone Posts: 5,634
    Using your 'negative equity' argument, would the names have been brought back? Hardly.

    That shows how inept GM marketing is.

    Same with Ford. The killed the Taurus, rightfully so, then bring the name back because they believe it has brand equity. Yeah right, only if you're on a Hertz lot.
  • fezofezo Posts: 9,195
    IIRC, the first-year, 1993 Altimas were technically "Stanza Altimas".

    Yes. That's exactly what happened. I had a friend who had one of those Stanza Altima.
  • fezofezo Posts: 9,195
    IIRC, the first-year, 1993 Altimas were technically "Stanza Altimas".

    Yes. That's exactly what happened. I had a friend who had one of those Stanza Altimas.
  • andre1969andre1969 Posts: 21,597
    I think the names "Malibu" and "Impala" might have come back because nostalgia and retro were becoming popular in the mid/late 1990's. And, in GM's defense, at least the original Malibu and Impala died with some dignity.

    I have a feeling that Chevy was planning on doing the same thing that Pontiac did with their lineup in 1982, where they took what had been the LeMans and gave it a more expensive looking front-end, and tried to pass it off as a downsized Bonneville, while getting rid of the traditional B-body Bonneville (and Catalina), and hoping that full-sized car buyers would fall for it. Meanwhile, midsized buyers, they hoped, would go for the new 6000.

    I always thought the 1982 Malibu, with its eggcrate grille and quad headlights, looked an awful lot like a baby Caprice. I'm convinced that initially they were planning on getting rid of the "real" Caprice, and transferring the name to the Malibu platform, and possibly getting rid of the Impala nameplate in the process. If that had happened, I wonder if the Celebrity would have been called Malibu, instead?
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHPosts: 7,370
    Good questions, andre (as usual). I think once the G-body Bonneville (former LeMans) didn't sell all that terrifically (and this is just from my memory, nothing to back it up), GM decided to keep the Impala/Caprice going and actually dolled up one for Pontiac to reintroduce in '83, the Parisienne.

    I believe the Celebrity probably would have been called the Malibu had the Malibu sedan and wagon not soldiered on into the '84 model year.

    I didn't like the blunt front end of the '82 Malibu..I liked the sloped-downward looks, at least at the headlights, of the '78-81's. I hated how you could see the seams where the '81-style headlights and grille used to be, on the '82!

    I like the '81 Chevys' model selection and colors. Didn't like the '82's colors as well, and some models, like the Impala coupe and Malibu coupes, went away, as did bucket seats in the Monte Carlo. Guess they were paring down to make room for the Cavalier, Celebrity, S-10 pickup, and new Camaro, or something.
  • dieselonedieselone Posts: 5,634
    edited December 2012
    Note: Nothing like "Avoid the 2007 Altima, but the 2006, 2008 and 2009 are fine".

    I believe it can happen. Even though a model may not receive any obvious updates, under the skin changes do happen. Ex. The Ford Expedition is virtually unchanged from '07 to today. But the spark plug issue which plagues the '07-'08 models (same with f150s) was fixed as a running change in late '08. Same engine.

    I've worked in a parts department. The same model can appear to be the same, but when it comes time to replace parts, they don't ask for a vin or serial number for nothing.

    Plus things happen, machines break, and people are not perfect. No process is 100% repeatable and variation happens (that's why there are tolerances). So I do believe the same model of car can have different results in various years.

    Plus it can be out of the box variables that can have an effect. Sell a car to a 20 year old vs. a 40 year old and see how the reliability is effected. It makes a difference. I treat a vehicle much different than I did 20 years ago. I don't attempt neutral drops, clutch dumps, brake torquing, and hill jumping anymore. Plus I can afford to fix anything that may go wrong, when it goes wrong and I perform all recommended maintenance, which is not something I used to do.

    In your example, the '07 Altima could have been have had heavy incentives to subprime borrowers. That could be a variable that could cause reliability results to be different between years or even a difference between the 'Nox, and Terrain.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHPosts: 7,370
    I believe running changes happen, but it hasn't been my experience in ownership that one will be good, the next year bad, and the next year good, etc., when it's obvious that the design, mechanicals, and sourcing hasn't changed. As andre said here once, and I believe it, it's comparing the car to other makes, and that may change from year-to-year. CR doesn't present it that way however. Just my opinion.
Sign In or Register to comment.