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GM News, New Models and Market Share

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  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Ghosn announced Nissan's moving Leaf production to TN, which is good because it creates jobs here, but they also announced a big price drop.

    Could hurt Volt sales now that it's much cheaper.

    But ... it also acknowledges that Chevy beat Nissan in this fight, and Nissan had to re-tool for Round Two.

    http://www.autoblog.com/2013/01/14/nissan-leaf-becomes-least-expensive-5-seat-ev- -with-massive-price/

    So Chevy won Round One.

    But in Round Two, the Leaf now starts at $28,800. Add $850 freight, subtract the $7500 federal tax credit, then a $2000 MD state tax credit (adjust for your home state), and I can get a US-built Leaf for a list price of $20,150. Not bad.

    Volt is about 50% more, and only seats 4.

    Also, consider that a Prius and Civic Hybrid start at $24,200, with no credits.

    That $4 grand savings easily pays for the 220v charging station, even if you own 2 homes.

    Question is, can Nissan make a profit at that price?

    Who cares if they lose money? Let them subsidize American jobs at a loss. Ghosn can count the beans to figure out how to do it.
  • tlongtlong CaliforniaPosts: 4,698
    Even haters gotta say, 'who else builds anything like it? ...and particularly with that content at that price?'

    I think it looks good and a nice evolution of the design.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHPosts: 7,348
    The red one in the big picture is an 'in your face' one, but I'd still like a subdued color, non-flashy wheels, base model sometime in my life, to do the Route 66 thing and nice weekenders with the wife when the kids are out...if that ever happens.
  • tlongtlong CaliforniaPosts: 4,698
    The red one in the big picture is an 'in your face' one, but I'd still like a subdued color, non-flashy wheels, base model sometime in my life, to do the Route 66 thing and nice weekenders with the wife when the kids are out...if that ever happens.

    I know you're frugal, but you should really splurge and get a more loaded one (or equivalent other desired car). You only live once. I used to be really frugal like that, too. Then I met my wife and she said "you only live once, you can't take it with you, you work hard, and you deserve to get something you REALLY like". Bless her heart. She helped give me balance. So I bought my last two cars new, and pretty loaded. But I still drive them a really long time, to give me the frugality balance. :blush:
  • andres3andres3 CAPosts: 5,282
    Your comparative youth is showing. Darts' reputation was that they were bulletproof--and this from a GM guy. Your comparative youth is showing. Darts' reputation was that they were bulletproof--and this from a GM guy.

    Fair enough, but then again some of you old timers have been saying that anything from today is way better than anything of the past. The argument is formed such that you can buy anything today and be happy with it's reliability (something I don't agree with by the way).

    So which is it, were old Dart's bulletproof or did old cars suck compared to the reliability of the best cars today?

    I still think early 90's Honda's and Toyota's are about as bulletproof as cars have ever been, of all-time. Of course, early 90's cars didn't have nearly as many features and gadgets as cars of today.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHPosts: 7,348
    I'll tell my wife that tlong told me to 'go for it'!

    Actually, I'm more compelled to 'splurge' on an old car, although I'm without one right now. I'd love another Studebaker, but on the other hand, getting someone to work on it has become more of an issue in this suburbia I live in now. All the shops seem to be 'git 'er in, git 'er out'. In my hometown, about 90 mins. from here, there actually seem to be more shops than around here, per capita anyway, and I could see them being more willing to work on one--small town and all that--but I'm merely guessing of course.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHPosts: 7,348
    edited January 2013
    I know cars last longer today--that is beyond doubt--but I was waaaayyyyy more excited to shop and buy a new car as late as probably thirty years ago than I am now. Resale values were higher (for domestics, anyway), and I could afford to trade every three years, like people did for a long time. Many models and many colors made it fun to go through the brochure and 'pick and choose'. I know those times are gone forever, but it was absolutely magical (to sound goofy about it).

    A huge part of my childhood that is fondly remembered was 'new car introduction night' in the fall, when the new models came out. Something was always restyled, and the cars were hidden until introduction night. It was great fun. Complete restylings generally happened every third year into the late '60's. Ah....that was fun. In our small town, it was also a social thing as you'd see everybody you knew checking out the new cars. Even if somebody bought a new car that summer, they still went down to check the new models out on introduction night, enjoy a donut and glass of cider and pick up all the brochures.
  • andres3andres3 CAPosts: 5,282
    Probably the worst think about the Caliber for me other than the company it came from was that it seemed you could fit a finger or 2 in the gap between the hood and the quarter-panel.

    Didn't CR give it a 30-something score?
  • busirisbusiris Posts: 3,447
    edited January 2013
    So which is it, were old Dart's bulletproof or did old cars suck compared to the reliability of the best cars today?

    I would say the answer is "yes".

    Like any generation of cars, some were better and more reliable than others. In the case of the original Dart, a loaded model usually was one with a heater and AM radio, maybe power steering and automatic transmission. Of course there were a few HiPerformance models, but they didn't count for much of the entire production. These cars were as reliable a car as one could buy back in the day, but that was then, when it was rare for any car to break 100K without some significant service on the engine or transmission, wheel bearings, brakes, etc.

    When I purchase a car today, I have every reason to expect it to go 100K miles (with far more options and conveniences) without any significant problems, other than wear and tear item like brake pads...
  • greg128greg128 Posts: 330
    Bad news for 90% of the posters on this forum, but good news for the taxpayers.
    The value of US Government stock holdings in GM rose by $2.5 billion over the last month.

    I think the Corvette is now overstyled. I like the outgoing model much better. It looks like GM "Sonatized" it.
  • tlongtlong CaliforniaPosts: 4,698
    Bad news for 90% of the posters on this forum, but good news for the taxpayers.
    The value of US Government stock holdings in GM rose by $2.5 billion over the last month.


    That's less bad news for us - we are taxpayers, too. This means we lose a few billion less than we thought. :surprise:

    I think the Corvette is now overstyled. I like the outgoing model much better. It looks like GM "Sonatized" it.

    I'm glad they are taking some chances. Certainly much better looking to my eyes than the Camaro.
  • fintailfintail Posts: 32,907
    edited January 2013
    2.5BN - could fund some of our foreign aid parasites/policy dictators for more than half a year with that - but nobody will castigate it :sick:

    The new Vette is good - it will attract younger eyes. For the past generation at least, Corvette has sold to older men who wanted one when younger, and can finally afford it. That's probably a wise tradition to continue, as the "free trade" economy probably has less younger men able to buy one than ever.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America: I70 & I75Posts: 17,702
    >This means we lose a few billion less than we thought.

    Gotta remember the $1,400,000,000 for Nissan, a very healthy company operating here, to move it's battery production for 300 workers to Smyrna/Laverge TN area.

    Is that okay?

    I think the gov should put more support behind our own US company just as other foreign governments have done to support their companies in their Motherlands (and in trade by undervaluing currencies).

    This message has been approved.

  • xrunner2xrunner2 Posts: 3,062
    Dart in title. Is that a GM brand?
  • tlongtlong CaliforniaPosts: 4,698
    The new Vette is good - it will attract younger eyes. For the past generation at least, Corvette has sold to older men who wanted one when younger, and can finally afford it. That's probably a wise tradition to continue, as the "free trade" economy probably has less younger men able to buy one than ever.

    We want to see you in one, fintail!
  • tlongtlong CaliforniaPosts: 4,698
    Gotta remember the $1,400,000,000 for Nissan, a very healthy company operating here, to move it's battery production for 300 workers to Smyrna/Laverge TN area.

    Is that okay?


    I'm going to take your word on that number as I'm not verifying it.

    In general, I'm doubtful of government funding most things. However, I'm much more in favor of funding new technologies than failing old technologies.

    So on that scale, it's "more" ok.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America: I70 & I75Posts: 17,702
    http://www.westernjournalism.com/us-gives-1-4-billion-loan-to-nissan-for-electri- c-cars/

    A company with revenue of ($118.95 billion US) worldwide, should be able to support their own leaf battery plant. They only sold 9,000 last year.

    This message has been approved.

  • fintailfintail Posts: 32,907
    I'll say so far, I like this more than those in the past few decades - if anything, because the interior looks nice (as it is marginal to terrible in older models). It is styled heavily, but that's the trend today. It's a good move, if the model is to stay alive.
  • xrunner2xrunner2 Posts: 3,062
    edited January 2013
    A huge part of my childhood that is fondly remembered was 'new car introduction night' in the fall, when the new models came out. Something was always restyled, and the cars were hidden until introduction night. It was great fun. Complete restylings generally happened every third year into the late '60's. Ah....that was fun.

    Ah.....Yes. The big con by American manufacturers. GM, Ford and Chrysler. Big changes in the sheet metal every few years, two years, one year with not much improvement going on with suspension, brakes, engines, transmissions, safety, etc. Chumps would trade in frequently to keep up with the latest trends, styles.
  • xrunner2xrunner2 Posts: 3,062
    Very true, and I know some old people who don't think they're old enough for an old man's car.

    "Old" is relative. Many people that have/had teen agers think that "old" is anyone over 30.
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