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GM News, New Models and Market Share

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  • jae5jae5 Posts: 1,205
    I think it was a good move keeping a stake in GMAC. They basically played their hedge, figuring they will also garner a profit, whether big or small, from the financing arm. Kind of like 62 stated, housing is getting hit hard and is in a huge slump, but a very small number of people are able to get mortgages, and the market will rebound is a few years. Plus some still finance vehicles through GMAC. Again, with the stack they have a steady flow a cash; it may be a trickle sometimes, but a constant stream nonetheless.

    And with the tax hit they took, they could use the cash to keep the momentum going! And who knows, they may later find themselves in a position to take back a majority stake.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Posts: 6,048
    Yes, it has been awhile here is the lineup: (my dream one with reality built in)

    GMC:Premiuim upscale, (make Denali equipment standard)
    Yukon, XL (hydrids available)
    Pickups (hybrids available)
    A nicer midsize pick up truck (hybrids available)
    no large work van (chevy only)

    Pontiac: All performance orientated in handling, power and appearance, for the single at heart
    RWD G5 (replace G5 and Vibe with coupe, hatch)
    RWD G6 (coupe, sedan, convertible)
    RWD G8 (coupe, sedan, Ute)
    RWD Solstice
    FWD/AWD mid sized SUV

    Buick: Gorgeous, styled, premium, comfortable, family
    FWD LaCrosse
    FWD Lucerne,
    AWD Large Park Avenue
    FWD/AWD Enclave
    A convertible based on the Park. Large and lux
  • rockyleerockylee Posts: 14,011
    So you think Buick, should stay FWD ???........Interesting....I admit I thought it might not be a bad idea and would distinguish themselves further from Cadillac. ;)

    -Rocky
  • lemkolemko Posts: 15,148
    Well, Acura is pretty much all FWD. It doesn't hurt their image. I, personally, wouldn't mind seeing a nice big RWD Buick.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Posts: 6,048
    So you think Buick, should stay FWD

    Yes, pretty much. Then again most buyers do not care if the horse is pushing or pulling so they could be FWD or RWD. I say this because there is no large FWD vehicle platforms are out there except the Lamda. So if GM wants a modern large platform they would have to use the Lamda and that may not make sense for one low volume vehicle (Park/Lucerne). So most likely the next large Buick will be RWD. Then again perhaps a new large FWD platform could be shared between Impala and Buick? May be worth the mods to Lamda?
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Posts: 6,048
    So you think Buick, should stay FWD

    Yes, pretty much. GM has the advantage/disadvantage of many well known brand marques. They really need to continue to differentiate them. Then again most buyers do not care if the horse is pushing or pulling so they could be FWD or RWD. I say this because there is no large FWD vehicle platforms are out there except the Lamda. So if GM wants a modern large platform they would have to use the Lamda and that may not make sense for one low volume vehicle (Park/Lucerne). So most likely the next large Buick will be RWD. Then again perhaps a new large FWD platform could be shared between Impala and Buick? May be worth the mods to Lamda?

    So I still stick by my listing of what is best for GM in the lineup but it may not be the most realistic.
  • bumpybumpy Posts: 4,435
    I'd make Chevrolet FWD only except for the trucks, Corvette, and Camaro; Pontiac would be RWD cars only; Buick would be FWD luxury cars and CUVs, and Cadillac would be RWD luxury cars and CUVs (no more truck-based Escalade).
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Posts: 6,048
    Pretty good explanation of GM's stock drop.

    GM, to name the most obvious example, is exposed to the subprime mortgage meltdown through its 49 percent stake in GMAC, which lost $757 million in the third quarter alone. How much uglier it might get GM isn't saying.
    Call it the Motown curse.

    Just when Detroit's automakers looked like they were getting some traction -- critically acclaimed products, lower cash burn, landmark contracts with the United Auto Workers that remove billions in health care liabilities and improved competitiveness -- the national economy downshifts, threatening turnarounds at all three companies.

    The Federal Reserve, in minutes released Tuesday of its Oct. 30-31 meeting, said it expects economic growth to slow next year, housing to remain soft (never a good thing for companies deriving meaningful profits from selling pickups to contractors) and oil prices to remain "appreciably higher."


    http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071121/OPINION03/711210392/1- 148/AUTO01
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Posts: 6,048
    Cadillac would be RWD luxury cars and CUVs (no more truck-based Escalade).

    except they have to keep some form of the Escalade because it just makes too much money to throw away.
  • bumpybumpy Posts: 4,435
    Build it off the platform for the RWD DTS replacement, a la CTS -> SRX.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Posts: 6,048
    Possible but it needs to be big to be an escalade.
  • bumpybumpy Posts: 4,435
    Not so much. It needs to be bigger than other Cadillacs, but mostly it needs to be blingier. That's what sells it.
  • bruce6bruce6 Posts: 29
    Just visited the San Francisco Int'l Auto Show. After years of thinking GM was hopeless, I'm really impressed by their new models. The Malibu is very, very sharp looking, inside and out. The 2-tone interior on the uplevel models is particularly striking, and classier than many more expensive cars. The new CTS is an absolute knockout, inside and out. On the small car front, the new Saturn Astra and the upcoming 2009 Pontiac Vibe both looked pretty sharp as well. If the generally shaky economy doesn't cause too many problems, GM really could be on its way again.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Posts: 6,048
    General Motors wants to broaden the range of vehicles that its new global front-drive compact architecture covers.

    Under development at GM's Opel r&d center here, the new architecture replaces the Delta compact-car architecture. It will debut in the United States and Europe as early as 2009.

    "We are doing a completely new platform that has a huge bandwidth," said Peter Mertens, vehicle line executive for the architecture. The new architecture will stretch beyond the limits of Delta, used for vehicles such as the Chevrolet Cobalt.

    Vehicles planned for the United States include an all-new Saturn Astra in 2009 or 2010. Chevrolet gets a small, minivanlike model in 2009. But the Cobalt may move to another GM architecture.

    GM's plans for the new architecture include:

    Up to five body styles, with prices ranging from less than $10,000 in South America to more than $40,000 in Europe.
    Several sedans and hatchbacks.

    A seven-passenger minivan that will replace the Opel Zafira, and a small, minivanlike vehicle for Chev-rolet in the United States.

    The Chevrolet Volt series plug-in, due in 2010.

    Mertens would not discuss global volume. But the consulting firm Global Insight Inc. projects that GM will produce 1.2 million units annually on this architecture by 2012, when most Delta models are in production. Global Insight expects North America to account for about 400,000 annual sales.

    Besides the Cobalt, the current Delta architecture is the basis for the Chevrolet HHR, Pontiac G5 (Pontiac Pursuit in Canada), Opel and Vauxhall Astra and the 2008 Saturn Astra.

    GM may switch the next-generation Cobalt to GM's new fwd Gamma architecture in 2010. The G5/Pursuit is expected to move to GM's new Alpha rwd vehicle architecture in 2011.

    Mertens said GM's global regions extensively modified models based on the existing Delta architecture. That made it impossible to assemble Delta-based Chevrolet and Opel models in the same plant – a stumble in GM's drive for truly global vehicle architectures.

    The new architecture will be nearly identical across the globe, Mertens said. For the most part, the same suppliers will be used. That means the small, seven-passenger minivan planned in 2009 for GM's Detroit-Hamtramck (Mich.) plant could be exported to Europe.

    "We will have plants with only one body style and one brand, and we will have plants with more body styles and more brands," Mertens said.

    The regional brands and models will be differentiated by powertrains, safety features, standard equipment and chassis tuning. Vehicles will share sheet metal with models sold in other regions, Mertens said.

    The modular design gives flexibility to create vehicles as large as the seven-passenger minivan. A longer floorplan than the current Delta architecture increases the wheelbase. A longer rear clip provides space needed for a third row of seats.

    In terms of driveability, Mertens said, the vehicles will not be clones.

    "If you drive them next to each other, you will certainly see there is a difference in chassis performance between an Opel and a Chevy or between a Buick and a Chevy," he said. "Each is engineered to compete against very specific competitors."
  • bumpybumpy Posts: 4,435
    GM may switch the next-generation Cobalt to GM's new fwd Gamma architecture in 2010.

    Which one is Gamma? The Aveo replacement? I would hope GM has enough sense not to throw away the scraps of nameplate equity that the Cobalt has now by bumping the name down the food chain.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Posts: 6,048
    Bit confusing but it looks like the new architecture being done by GM-Daewoo is at least a subcompact architecture including:
    Aveo
    Corsa
    a sub Corsa sized vehicle
    Astra
    Zafira
    Volt

    From what I can tell this is not the new Gamma architecture but a new smaller architecture.

    The new Gamma architecture:
    Cobalt
    Chevy compact minivan
    China Buick
    Korean Daewoo vehicle
    Saab

    http://www.motorauthority.com/cars/general-motors/gm-developing-one-platform-for- - -all/

    BUT I think there is a lot of confusion and unknowns. With the latest announcement talking about wider bandwidth I bet all the above vehicles are on the new Gamma architecture. But the answer to our message is that the Cobalt and Aveo will be distinct vehicles and both in production at the same time.
  • torque_rtorque_r Posts: 500
    Great to know that the Chevy Malibu won best mid-size sedan. Defeated the Accord? No. The Accord moved up to best full-size sedan in place of Chrysler 300. In the list, there are 2 Chevys, 2 Hondas, 2 Mazdas, 1 BMW, 1 Volkswagen, 1 Infiniti and 1 Porsche.

    BMW 3-Series
    Chevrolet Corvette
    Chevrolet Malibu
    Honda Accord
    Honda Fit
    Infiniti G35 Sedan
    Mazda MX-5 Miata
    Mazdaspeed3
    Porsche Boxster / Cayman
    Volkswagen GTI

    It seems the Accord will always be in the list and for years to come. It will probably always outhandle bigger less agile full-sizers. The Malibu will probably remain there for few years, unless the new Mazda 6 is good enough to dethrone it. It's good there are two Chevys in the list. We haven't seen this in a long time. Another sign of GM's come back.
  • So will they now put it in full size comparisons? I bet they still compare it to the malibu, camry, altima, etc. instead of impala, maxima, avalon, 300, etc.
  • cooterbfdcooterbfd Posts: 2,770
    Ummm.... The site today shows the Caddy CTS and not the Infiniti on the top 10. Think of that; COTY and Ten Best for the CTS!!!!!!!!
  • I agree, it is a bit confusing. Also, will the Volt be built on it's own platform or shared with other vehicles in its lineup even though it's a plug in hybrid?

    The regional brands and models will be differentiated by powertrains, safety features, standard equipment and chassis tuning. Vehicles will share sheet metal with models sold in other regions, Mertens said.

    This statement both comforts and scares me. The comfort comes in because you want to differentiate your products to obtain a broader audience so having different powertrains, chasis tuning, etc. will help that. Sharing the same sheet metal scares me. If you look at the Cobalt, it's just a G5 rebadged and vice versa. Same as back in the 80's when you had the Cavalier and the Sunbird.......Buick Regal/Chevy Monte Carlo/Pontiac Grand Prix.......same 2 door notch back styles, just different badging. You need a different look to go along with different powertrains, safety features, chasis tuning, standard equipment, etc.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Posts: 6,048
    Volt is being built based on a small common architecture.

    It says "will share sheet metal with models sold in other regions". Means that a Chevy Cobalt here may have the same sheet metal as the Opel whatever sold in Europe. Does not say share in same regions but then again it does not say they will not share.

    What years do you think the Regal/Monte/GP ever shared any sheet metal. None ever did.
  • Small common architecture, okay, wonder if this will be the basis of all their new gen hybrids, ie, plug ins. Guess we'll find out as time moves on.

    True, it doesn't say it will not share, which makes you wonder. Different regions of the world I'm okay with, that I certainly can understand so I'm hoping that's the case.

    If you get a chance, check out years '84, '85, and '86. Probably even '81-'83 as well. If there's a way for you to put them side by side, there's no doubt they look a little TOO much a like. You can tell they were built off the same platform with very little difference between them.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Posts: 6,048
    There is no main sheet metal sharing between those vehicles during those years. But they are all similar in size and styling and are too close to each other. I owned a number of those vehicles at one time!!
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Posts: 6,048
    GM officials say the car enjoys a turn rate of about seven days, a brisk
    pace fueled by a combination of its favorable reception and limited
    availability. Turnover is even quicker on the West Coast, where a Malibu
    sits on a dealer lot for roughly six days before being sold.

    Scott Daly, sales manager at Courtesy Chevrolet in Phoenix, AZ, calls
    the reception excellent. “We can’t keep them on the lot,” he says.

    “It’s a winner,” agrees Hank Gaylor, sales manager at Classic Chevrolet
    in Grapevine, TX. “We need more.”

    Mark LaNeve, vice president-sales, service and marketing at GM, says the
    new Malibu drove a 15.0% increase in Chevrolet passenger-car sales in
    November – the sedan’s first full sales month.

    “We thought we would sell 1,000 units, and we actually sold 3,994,”
    LaNeve says during a sales call with analysts and journalists.

    GM hopes the ’08 Malibu will provide a more solid entry into the highly
    competitive midsize passenger-car segment dominated by the Toyota Camry
    and Honda Accord. Early anecdotal evidence suggests Malibu is winning
    conquest sales, LaNeve says.

    “There’s a lot of good stories,” he says. “Dealers tell us, ‘You
    wouldn’t believe who is buying them.’ We think we’ve got a legitimate
    contender.

    “We’ve said all along (the) perfect Camry and Accord customer who buys
    five in a row is not our target,” he adds. “But the customers who buy (a
    Camry or Accord) that are indifferent, we think we’ve got a shot at
    those.”
  • Perhaps my mistake in thinking shared sheet metal is synonymous with looks. But therein lies the problem. No shared sheet metal aside, their vehicles back then looked too similar to pick them apart from one another. As time has gone on, they've done a better job but still could do better. Hopefully, taking in the words from the article, they CAN and WILL be able to differentiate their products substantially, even when some vehicles will be built on the same platform. Ought to be interesting.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Posts: 6,048
    The reasons Lutz was brought on was to take care of the product side of GM. How do you think GM has done in the differentiation side since he had input? I see the Malibu/Aura as completely different looking even thought they are both Epsilons. CTS looks very different than anything and the Lamda triplets are pretty differentiated even though I think the Acadia and Outlook could have more styling differentiation and the Enclave is really out there. The Solstice and Sky are somewhat close in styling due to similar proportions yet I think most see a huge market difference. Pontiac is more snarkey and hot rodish while the Saturn has a more made up chrome high end look to it.

    Oh, I almost forgot. I think GM really falls on their face with the SUV/truck differentiation. Why do the GMC and Chevy versions have to share sheet metal???? I would think they could have different fenders and doors. This enough volume out there to support different tools.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Posts: 6,048
    Lets hope nothing bad happens between China and US.

    The Detroit-based company will spend about $1 billion a year on car and engine development, production facilities, technical and after-sales support and infrastructure, Kevin Wale, president of GM's China unit, said in an interview in Shanghai.

    GM will sell more than 1 million Cadillacs, Buicks, and other models in China in 2008, a more than 150-fold increase in sales over a decade. Toyota Motor Corp and Volkswagen AG both plan to add production capacity in the country to raise their own sales.

    "Even with this $1 billion a year, it'll still be tough to remain No 1 in China," Ashvin Chotai, a London-based analyst for Global Insight Inc, said. "With China becoming the most important strategic market in the world, it's crucial to have their investment to stay in the race."


    http://en.ce.cn/Industries/Auto/200712/07/t20071207_13840419.shtml?CFID=18978940- &CFTOKEN=40713187
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Posts: 6,048
    Well the house finally passed a decent energy bill. A little fine tuning to make it feasible and off we go.

    http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071207/AUTO01/712070390/1148-
  • bumpybumpy Posts: 4,435
    Except for that pesky watered-down-in-the-Senate-then-vetoed thing.
  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Posts: 4,192
    "Well the house finally passed a decent energy bill."

    Why is it decent? I would agree with your statement if you substituted "flawed" for "decent." I'm concerned that we'll look back and conclude that the new CAFE standard will work little better than the socially engineered failure passed in '75, once the unintended consequences are factored in.
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