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GM News, New Models and Market Share

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  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    3.4% increase for GM is pretty good considering the tsunami was still causing shortages for some competition last year.

    I'm surprised they grew at all.

    Caddy being up 30% is fantastic news. ATS must be well received.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    http://www.insideline.com/ford/escape/2013/2013-ford-escape-and-fusion-recalled-- for-fire-risk.html

    The 1.6l EcoBoost, and this is one of those "park it" style recalls, which are a bit embarassing.

    Affects both the Fusion and the Escape.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    http://www.autoblog.com/2012/12/01/buick-verano-nails-five-star-safety-rating-fr- om-nhtsa/

    5 stars on NCAP crash tests, but only 4 for rollover? That's a surprise, not like it's a tall crossover or anything.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-11-30/ex-gm-engineer-husband-found-guilty-of-- trade-secrets-theft-1-.html

    Now folks here might listen more closely when I say they have to tread carefully with all those "Joint Ventures" in China...
  • busirisbusiris Posts: 3,490
    When I think of hybrid technology (excluding the Volt), GM isn't the first car company that comes to mind.

    But your point is well made. It's usually cheaper and more efficient to steal technology than to create it...
  • busirisbusiris Posts: 3,490
    There'll be a "hot time" in the ole Fusion tonite!

    Embarrassing... Indeed!
  • fintailfintail Posts: 33,714
    And some out there would explain that away as just being a "cultural difference". Surprised they didn't just willingly give the info away though, it is practically a requirement of the joint ventures there.

    Longterm consequences from short term profits.
  • busirisbusiris Posts: 3,490
    With so much automotive equipment/parts/pieces being made off-shore nowadays, it doesn't seem like technology would be too difficult to decode and reproduce if someone was willing to exert just a small amount of effort.

    Add into that equation a society that doesn't have the same "understanding and respect" of intellectual property and ideas, and it seems the theft of technology is practically an issue of "when", not "if".

    Chasing $$$'s seems to always trump common sense. In this case, short-term profits rule over intellectual property.

    Who could have seen it coming??? (Sarcasm emphasized...)
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Posts: 2,743
    Chevy will be happy to build you one....if you can afford it. ;)
  • andres3andres3 CAPosts: 5,330
    edited December 2012
    I can guarantee, though, that the ATS will cost a lot less in upkeep.

    Highly doubtful in my view.

    But it's also a lot harsher riding

    The reviews I've read say the ATS is harsher than the BMW's.

    and you have to flog the poor things to death

    I've never heard of a BMW being flogged to death. Do you mean to say if you drive a Caddy hard it'll die? Seems to me a lot here feel that the domestics have to be babied and driven like a typical 94 year old average slow driver in order to last.

    Except for the better warranty,


    You mean the warranty that wouldn't have been honored if Bush and Obama didn't gift billions and billions of OUR money to funding replacement parts for :lemon: vehicles?

    lower cost to maintain

    again, highly doubtful.

    not to mention it works fine without premium gas), and much better reliability.

    every modern car works "fine" without premium gas. Doesn't mean you'll get the advertised mileage and/or horsepower without premium octane.

    and much better reliability.

    Not from the history of Cadillac I've heard about.

    GM makes among the best automatics in the world, though

    Do they even make a dual clutch DSG performance automated automatic transmission yet?
  • andres3andres3 CAPosts: 5,330
    Sometimes I think the issue that really holds both VW and Audi back is their dealer network. They seem to have a reputation as over complicated vehicles that are costly to maintain and repair, combined with indifferent at best dealerships.

    I've heard of bad VW dealerships. I've never heard anyone say anything bad about an Audi dealership. Most of the dealerships are separated now, even the one's that were previously combined in my county are now all separated.
  • andres3andres3 CAPosts: 5,330
    The Swedish blamed the SUA wrecks in their country on bad solder joints in the cruise control. (Audi Sudden Acceleration and The Multinational)

    Guarantee 99.9 percent of the Swedes blaming SUA on the car had a lot of stock in automaker's that were competitors to Audi (or worked for a competitor).

    How does shift interlock and pedal positions have anything to do with blaming the car? You still have to blame the driver. Or did the pedals miraculously and mysteriously move and change positions between the purchase date and the crash date?>??????? ???? :sick: :cry:

    You must be one of the jurors that awarded millions for coffee being hot at McDonald's.... well, duh!!! Coffee's supposed to be hot; not spilled on yourself!
  • andres3andres3 CAPosts: 5,330
    Caddy being up 30% is fantastic news. ATS must be well received.

    Great, then GM should be able to put a new Cruze LTZ in every taxpayer's/company owner's driveway this Christmas, as they should be able to afford it given their stellar sales performance and business management as of late .... :sick:

    Then everyone can sell their newly found tax dividend and tax rebate in January, thereby plummeting the resale value of Chevy, but in turn using those funds to buy GM stock, thereby allowing a "break-even" sale of the stock.
  • plektoplekto Posts: 3,738
    Highly doubtful in my view.
    I can guarantee it. The body is built in Canada, while the engine is from Germany. The issue with German cars is that they all source from the same few electronics suppliers due to age-old contracts and huge tariffs and markups if they use non-German parts.

    VW, Mercedes, BMW, Audi. The weak link is always the electronics and accessories. The engines are great, though. As is the styling. But the parts and repairs are a world more expensive than even Lexus.

    and you have to flog the poor things to death
    You have to beat both cars to death to get a noticeable difference between the two, they are so close to each other. That's test-track territory. In normal driving, it apparently is like driving twins. And, yes, GM tends to put higher profile tires on their cars so they DO tend to ride a bit softer and nicer in normal driving.

    Except for the better warranty,
    GM has had that 100K warranty since before the bailout. If the reliability of the CTS shows anything, it's that the ATS is likely to be similarly good.

    http://usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/cars-trucks/Cadillac_ATS/Reliability/
    That rating, for a *GM* car, is almost from another planet. It's way ahead of a typical German car.
    http://usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/cars-trucks/BMW_3-Series/Reliability/
    A bit worse, as expected. Add in parts and labor cost differences, and it's a clear win for GM this time. Maybe not next time, or, well, hardly ever in the past, but certainly true for the CTS and ATS.

    Do they even make a dual clutch DSG performance automated automatic transmission yet?
    Actually I was being nice. GM makes the *best* automatics. DSG is just more crap to break. I suppose if you plan on taking it to the track on weekends, you'd care. Otherwise, I happen to like plain and lower cost to repair standard automatics. The one in the CTS is superb, actually. I can't imagine that the ATS uses a different automatic transmission, given how many parts the cars share.
  • steverstever Ex Yooper, just arrived in New MexicoPosts: 40,547
    You must be one of the jurors that awarded millions for coffee being hot at McDonald's

    Sure, Mickey Dees was warned multiple times that their scalding coffee was dangerous. You could look it up.

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  • busirisbusiris Posts: 3,490
    Really, does anyone NOT understand that scalding hot coffee (or any other liquid) can severely burn someone?
  • andre1969andre1969 Posts: 21,970
    Really, does anyone NOT understand that scalding hot coffee (or any other liquid) can severely burn someone?

    You would think that. BUT. This is America, after all, where common sense isn't so common.

    However, I think the McDonald's coffee was a special case, because they brewed it at higher temperatures than what most other places do. So it would burn you much more severely than if the waitress at Denny's or IHOP tripped and poured a pot of coffee on your crotch, for example.

    I've never had McDonald's coffee, but I've heard that because it was brewed at a higher temperature, it was supposed to taste better. Dunno if that's truth or simply marketing, though.
  • dieselonedieselone Posts: 5,650
    edited December 2012
    Really, does anyone NOT understand that scalding hot coffee (or any other liquid) can severely burn someone?

    That's why I've never put a cup of coffee between my legs while leaving a drive thru!!!

    When I was about 12, I went with my dad to pick up a pizza. I had shorts on and held the pizza on my lap. The pizza was in a paper bag, and since I was sitting at an angle, the cheese and sauce leaked through the paper and onto my thigh. I received 2nd degree burns on my thigh and nearly 30 years later I still have scars. Did my parents sue? Hell no, my mom took me to the doctor, I was treated, and we moved on. Sure it hurt like hell, and I ended up throwing the pizza all over the seat and floor of my dads car;) I guess we should have sued so I could be living the good life because my dad and I probably made a poor choice in my holding freshly cooked pizza on my lap.

    I understand the Mcdonalds case was severe. IIRC, the woman injured was hospitalized and required surgery etc. So I do believe she was entitled to some type of compensation for her medical bills etc and Mcdonalds was likely wrong to dispense such hot coffee.
  • steverstever Ex Yooper, just arrived in New MexicoPosts: 40,547
    edited December 2012
    They kept it scalding because it would stay "fresher" longer. And it injured more people than the granny.

    The only problem with the McDonald's case is that the judge lowered the damages award. I guess the judge felt the high powered plaintiff's lawyer really snowed those poor dumb jurors like me, and the McDonald's lawyer that just passed the bar did a lousy job of defending Ronald. :P

    The rest of y'all can depend on consumer protection agencies and corporate goodwill to save your skin; I'll call my lawyer if some GM defect injures me. Especially if it's a known defect that the company chose to ignore because it's cheaper to pay a few plaintiffs instead of paying more to fix the defect. Think Pinto and Ford's risk/benefit analysis that determined it was cheaper to let people die instead of redesigning the gas tank.

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  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    There are ladders with "STOP" written on the top rung. :D

    'nuf said.
  • steverstever Ex Yooper, just arrived in New MexicoPosts: 40,547
    edited December 2012
    Common sense says you don't put scalding liquids in a flimsy stryofoam cup.

    I just love the way people want to lessen my rights while giving more control to bureaucrats and corporations. Meanwhile those same folks turn around and rag on bureaucrats and GM like they're evil incarnate.

    It's all fun and games until you're the one injured by someone else's negligence.

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  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    I'm just saying it doesn't matter how careful they are, someone seems to find a way to get hurt.

    Who drinks McD's coffee anyway? Dunkin' Donuts, bro. ;)
  • steverstever Ex Yooper, just arrived in New MexicoPosts: 40,547
    I drink it all the time. 50 cent senior cup, and I hear they make a fresh pot every ten minutes or so. I never hit the drive-through, so I can manage the cup without danger. :shades:

    Never understood why step-ladders have top steps that look like steps either. One of mine is set up with tool holes and bucket hangers to discourage using it as a step.

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  • busirisbusiris Posts: 3,490
    edited December 2012
    "The rest of y'all can depend on consumer protection agencies and corporate goodwill to save your skin; I'll call my lawyer if some GM defect injures me. Especially if it's a known defect that the company chose to ignore because it's cheaper to pay a few plaintiffs instead of paying more to fix the defect. Think Pinto and Ford's risk/benefit analysis that determined it was cheaper to let people die instead of redesigning the gas tank."

    Well, I see a difference between fresh, hot coffee and known collusion to cover up a defective/dangerous product.

    McDonalds never (to my knowledge) advertised its hot coffee was safe to pour into your crotch, and a bit of common sense would tell any reasonable person that anyone's hot, fresh coffee just poured from the urn was, in all likelihood, hot. I don't think anyone ever turned up any evidence that McDonalds intentionally withheld evidence that hot coffee would scald someone when dropped into their lap.

    OTOH, Ford DID advertise the Pinto as a safe, albeit inexpensive vehicle, and knowingly designed the car with a gas tank likely to explode into flames in a rear-end collision. And, they intentionally withheld that information from the buying public.

    I see a big difference there.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2012/12/03/ford-fusion-escape-recall-en- gine-fires/1743203/

    The Ford brand has had 92 recalls since 2009, substantially higher than the next highest brands

    But it's the embarrassing nature of the problem that is the real issue.

    Fusion, Fiesta, Focus, and Escape are all the best looking cars in their class IMHO, but that have got to get quality back under control.

    And it's not just myFord touch, it's transmissions and engines, big stuff.
  • andre1969andre1969 Posts: 21,970
    Never understood why step-ladders have top steps that look like steps either.

    I remember back in the late 1980's, buying my Granddad a new stepladder for Christmas. It had this new warning I had never seen before "Do Not Stand or Sit On or Above This Step". It was placed on the next-to-the-top step. So essentially, that 6-foot stepladder had a useful height of about 4 feet. And fully open, probably more like 3 feet, 9 inches.

    So, if I we ever needed to use those top two steps, instead of the new ladder, we'd pull out the rickety old 6-foot ladder that the new one was supposed to replace. The old one didn't have that warning label, so that meant it was okay to stand on or above that step, right? :P
  • lemkolemko Posts: 15,162
    DSG = "My kids are going to Harvard and I'm getting that new boat!" to the local transmission technician.
  • steverstever Ex Yooper, just arrived in New MexicoPosts: 40,547
    known collusion to cover up a defective/dangerous product

    I think that's exactly what McDonald's did. After many complaints of too hot coffee, they didn't change their practices in order to save money on the coffee beans. Don't believe me; go look it up on some place besides the tort reform sites.

    Ah well, let's climb the ladder (carefully :P ) back to GM News.

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  • busirisbusiris Posts: 3,490
    I usually try to avoid using anecdotal evidence when making a broader judgment call, but I suspect the 2 comments at the bottom of your linked articles on the Escape model might be fairly indicative of the owners' feelings at the current time.

    At least, from a Ford perspective, the name "Escape" seems to have a whole new meaning....
  • busirisbusiris Posts: 3,490
    edited December 2012
    I guess the only point I was making is that, personally speaking just for me, I would make the assumption that ANY cup of fresh coffee (exception: iced coffee) would be hot enough to do damage to someone's groin.

    That just seems second nature to me.

    After all, pick your favorite fast food coffee joint, buy a cup and pour it immediately in your lap. I suspect you will find it painfully hot

    I would also think one should be able to assume a new car is relatively safe for its intended purpose, which is driving on the highway, without an ensuing explosion from a relatively minor rear-ender.
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