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GM News, New Models and Market Share

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Comments

  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,372
    That is the best GM news I've heard. The bonus based on profits motivates the staff. If they get rid of the UAW baggage and then take care of the staff better than the UAW, GM will lead the World.

    Balance.

    Regards,
    OW
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,372
    The Challenger rarely gets mentioned in any context here, but as a guy who fondly remembers the original Challengers, I think it is the closest to imparting the 'coolness' of the original, compared to Mustang and Camaro.

    Completely agree. The Challenger wins the Retro theme in pony cars presently. In looks only!

    My order is:
    Challenger
    Mustang
    Camaro

    Regards,
    OW
  • fintailfintail Posts: 33,719
    I stereotype Chevy drivers as undemanding cheapskates, and Buick drivers as those so old they still think Buick is what Lexus is now (as it was once), so no worries, uplanderguy ;)

    And Audi drivers...well, I share Jeremy Clarkson's observations there :shades:

    There are a lot of status seeking drivers of most brands. You'll even see it in the type who will buy a loaded Suburban thinking it is an exotic, especially if they are in a small town with little exposure to global highline brands. And many leasers of premium cars are in it for the badge. That's what drives the astounding sales volume of late. IMO...as it becomes harder to actually make it, there are ways people can kind of fake it and still feel like they have something.

    I like something rare, fairly subtle, with a high quality interior, the ability to be driven hard, and something that has a consistent smooth ride on top of it. A sport model MB is good at that, a BMW in comfort mode is there too.
  • fintailfintail Posts: 33,719
    edited December 2012
    And the bailed out FIRE industries (who created a lot of this malaise) even moreso. Wall St bonuses will surely hit record territory once again.
  • maple2maple2 Posts: 177
    Have you owned a GM?
  • tlongtlong CaliforniaPosts: 4,752
    And the bailed out FIRE industries (who created a lot of this malaise) even moreso. Wall St bonuses will surely hit record territory once again.

    As far as I recall, the govt actually MADE money on companies like AIG.

    Which of course is no reason to reward them. They and the big banks should have been split into little pieces, but of course that would have endangered certain campaign contributions.

    I just don't see there being any fundamental change that will prevent it from happening again.

    Are there fundamental changes enough to keep GM from happening again, too? It's not trending the right way. A non-government interference bankruptcy would have been much likelier to produce GM offshoots that could have been successful, IMHO.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHPosts: 7,494
    I'm actually a fussy Chevy owner, during the warranty especially. I'll take a car back for stuff most people wouldn't bother. My Service Manager and I regularly kid about that, too.

    I'm certain I could find things on a new Lexus, Benz, or whatever, to take back during the warranty period. That's not a slam on those cars, but it's a description of me.
  • andres3andres3 CAPosts: 5,330
    Not too many Subies. Of course, I'm in Southern California, far from Subie country, but on my trip to Tahoe, it was a good mix of Audi's and Subies.

    Of course, my usual track event is with the Audi club, so it's Audi biased, but I have heard the phrase "Subie is the Japanese Audi."

    I'd say there's usually one STI in the mix, along with 2 or 3 Evo's.

    BRZ is too new... get back to you in April on that. There was a regular old souped up Scion, so I'm sure the newer and much better Subie clone will make an appearance or two, if not the BRZ itself.
  • andres3andres3 CAPosts: 5,330
    I'm fussy too... an ill fitting small interior trim piece is plenty for me to take a car in for warranty.

    My view is that for thousands of dollars, I can be fussy, if they lower the price of new cars down to the 4 digits range, maybe I'd be willing to be less fussy, but at 5 digits, no way.
  • andres3andres3 CAPosts: 5,330
    o of course that takes me to brands like Audi. I owned an A4 a few years back and loved that car, except for the cost to repair.

    If you don't mind me asking, where did/do you live with tha Audi A4?

    Were you able to find a good independent mechanic? I've found that a good mechanic makes German cars seem very reasonably priced to work on and maintain/repair. Of course, I haven't owned an R8 yet :P
  • andres3andres3 CAPosts: 5,330
    Glad to see bonuses for UAW workers is more important to the Big 3 than paying back the taxpayers and making the country whole! :sick:
  • andres3andres3 CAPosts: 5,330
    edited December 2012
    Both of these examples are why I would never judge a vehicle based on a rental experience, other than the design layout, comfort, etc. I've seen car renters that could break a hammer and anvil...

    That's one way to look at it I suppose. A reasonable view I'm sure. I, however, take the other side and as an owner, I particularly want to know how a car works, runs, lasts under hard use, such as rentals.

    Good demonstration of durability, reliability, being driving by different people under different conditions.

    If it can't handle the heat, I might not want it. (If the rental agency skimps on maintenance, that's another can of worms). I've always imagined rental agencies to be vigilent on routine maintenance intervals.
  • andres3andres3 CAPosts: 5,330
    No, but I've owned something HQ'd in the same city.
  • tlongtlong CaliforniaPosts: 4,752
    If you don't mind me asking, where did/do you live with tha Audi A4?

    Near the LA metro area. I had a pretty good mechanic, but was going to the dealer for a while. And that was sort of a bend-over period ($$). Although they were certainly nice, they couldn't always diagnose the problem correctly.
  • maple2maple2 Posts: 177
    No, but I've owned something HQ'd in the same city.

    Michigan is a city now?
  • fintailfintail Posts: 33,719
    edited December 2012
    Banks should have been split, and many financial leadership types should have been sent off to Alcatraz or worse. But now they are still traipsing around Manhattan, deciding if they should buy a Rolls or a Bugatti, enabled by my taxes. Just as some nations continue to stir the pit on my and your dime. I'd rather the latter be cut off and the monies used against deficit/debt or maybe to aid domestic industry too. What's good for our competition should be good for us.

    I don't see any changes that would GM from getting sick again. You are correct that a normal bk could have fared better, but it also could have collapsed and caused an economic tidal wave of sorts. I think in this case, the feds were engaging in risk mitigation, at a price of course.
  • fintailfintail Posts: 33,719
    I've never had a car with a factory warranty, so I am even pickier. Anything that seems off, I just don't buy to begin with. When the aftermarket warranty on my current car was about 3 months from expiration, I took it to my indy mechanic and told him to fix anything amiss that the warranty would cover. Would a Chevy dealer do that? :shades:
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America: I70 & I75Posts: 18,196
    >You are correct that a normal bk could have fared better, but it also could have collapsed

    A normal bankruptcy with the federal government providing cash to keep things going was what most smart folks were expecting. Instead the idea that a crisis is a terrible thing to waste was used to give ownership to the UAW taking it away from bondholders as far as equity left in value of the old GM. In a bankruptcy as described earlier and money supplied by the government, the unions would have started over on negotiations. The high cost of labor for GM would have been mitigated and a much stronger GM in terms of pricing, money spent on R&D, quality of interiors, would all have helped the current position. Even the choice of size for the new Malibu would have been more market oriented.

    So the wrong games were played in the bankruptcy and GM is still being criticized for doing the best they can under the "leadership" of the government we have.
  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 40,560
    edited December 2012
    "The creditors' suit challenges a lockup agreement in which several hedge funds agreed to accept $367 million to settle $1.3 billion in claims against Old GM, known in bankruptcy court as Motors Liquidation.
    Attorney Michael Richman, who represented a group of unsecured creditors during the bankruptcy, said GM's restructuring could have ended differently if the hedge fund deal had been disclosed immediately."

    Creditors' claims that old General Motors shorted them will be ruled on soon by a federal bankruptcy judge (Detroit Free Press)

    Moderator
    Need help navigating? stever@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.

  • fintailfintail Posts: 33,719
    I don't recall much government oversight being suggested in speculation before the deed was done, but I didn't pay close attention. I assumed some of our treacherous private equity men would have been at the helm, those who have done so much for the national employment spectrum. I don't know if the labor rates would have been instantly dissolved, nor the issues of interior quality and Malibu design etc that seem to stem from the minds of entrenched lifer upper management than from union expenses.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHPosts: 7,494
    I have never once had my dealer tell me 'no' on a warranty issue. That's for real.
  • tlongtlong CaliforniaPosts: 4,752
    You are correct that a normal bk could have fared better, but it also could have collapsed and caused an economic tidal wave of sorts. I think in this case, the feds were engaging in risk mitigation, at a price of course.

    Risk-based, certainly. With these things you can't run both sides of the experiment. We can conjecture on what would have happened. There are scenarios from most good things to mostly bad things. And nobody can really know how it would have turned out had the bailout of GM and C not happened.
  • tlongtlong CaliforniaPosts: 4,752
    In a bankruptcy as described earlier and money supplied by the government, the unions would have started over on negotiations. The high cost of labor for GM would have been mitigated and a much stronger GM in terms of pricing, money spent on R&D, quality of interiors, would all have helped the current position. Even the choice of size for the new Malibu would have been more market oriented.

    So the wrong games were played in the bankruptcy and GM is still being criticized for doing the best they can under the "leadership" of the government we have.


    Absolutely.
  • andres3andres3 CAPosts: 5,330
    edited December 2012
    A normal bankruptcy with the federal government providing cash to keep things going was what most smart folks were expecting.

    I find a fundamental flaw in your analysis.

    First, usually the smark folks follow the smart money and the smart money follows the smart folks.

    Second, if the smart folks were expecting a wonderful GM through bankruptcy, then they should have put up the smart money instead of the government.

    Why would the Federal Government need to provide cash when the smart folks have plenty of smart money to have moved GM along.

    I think the truth is that the smart money and folks wouldn't touch GM with a 10' pole.
  • andres3andres3 CAPosts: 5,330
    Detroit????
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHPosts: 7,494
    Ah, so that's why you post constantly on a GM forum? You owned a Chrysler, but its headquarters is in the same city as GM. Makes perfect sense to me.
  • andre1969andre1969 Posts: 21,971
    edited December 2012
    That black thing that Spike drove was a 1959 DeSoto. It was a 4-door hardtop, and one of the bigger models, but I can't remember if it was a Firedome or Fireflite.

    Umm, not that I'm a devout fan of the show, either! :P
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Posts: 2,743
    Sorry, couldn't really tell between the blacked-out windows and the hip-deep pile of bottles.

    Not that I started watching Smallville because I heard James Marsters was in it or anything. :P
  • busirisbusiris Posts: 3,490
    I think the truth is that the smart money and folks wouldn't touch GM with a 10' pole.

    After working over the years and being involved in capital-raising ventures, I often find the term "smart money" laughable... Not that there isn't some smart money, but that there is so much stupid money that so many interpret as smart money, if for no other reason than it simply being available money.

    IMO, relatively speaking, smart money is in the minority.

    As I see it relating to the bailouts, the smart thing to do was to just sit on the cash until some market direction could be determined, while everyone else was so overextended by hedging and speculation they simply didn't have any available cash reserves.

    In any case, what's done is done. While debating the issue of whether or not it should have happened will go on for decades, it won't make any difference.

    I'm looking to see if GM can change its old ways on its second chance at life, much like the guy that has potential but never uses it, has a brush with death, then decides to do something meaningful with his life. Of course, he may simply decide to keep on doing the same things, too.

    Time will tell. I would say GM better make it stick this time. I really don't see round 2 of government funding/bailout coming anytime soon. What I do see is the continued consolidation within the global auto industry in which fewer players are around in 10, 20 years.
  • andres3andres3 CAPosts: 5,330
    edited December 2012
    I've had rental Cavalier's, Cobalts, Aveo's, and Malibu Classics all from GM.

    Even a Buick LeSabre.

    None of these rental experiences gave me any confidence in the way the Big 3 is making cars.

    For balance... the Cobalt was way better than the Cavalier. But that's like saying Tebow is better than Sanchez.
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