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Honda Accord VCM

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  • isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonPosts: 17,782
    Have you thought that just maybe your Accord DOES have a true problem that the dealer could fix for you?

    I can't understand why you wouldn't at least let them take a look at it?

    It could need a software reflash or something simple?

    Certainly worth a try anyway I would think!
  • phantomvphantomv Posts: 101
    The WSJ, USA Today and Autoweek ALL reviewed the VCM equipped cars and commented negatively about the VCM operation being, at least, noticeable.

    http://automobiles.honda.com/accord-sedan/reviews.aspx

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB120111703171810629.html?mod=todays_us_weekend_jo- - - urnal

    I don't get it. Why can't you accept the fact that the system IS noticeable and is NOT seamless - this is coming from unbiased reviewers - USA Today, Auto Week, WSJ. Not me - I am not making these claims alone - nor is golfrski - the press is too!!! This is like the Emperor's New Clothes!!?? And golrski, some others and I are the only ones who can see he is naked??? Is Honda the Emperor?? :confuse:

    Why should I waste my time taking my car to a dealer only to be told it is normal, which according to these reviewers' experiences, it is?
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    Well, the thing of it is that you cannot know what your dealer will tell you until you take the car there and find out.

    It seems clear that there are a whole lot of 08 V6 owners who are not experiencing the difficulties you are, so why not invest some time to see if your dealership can make you happy?
  • isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonPosts: 17,782
    Were you responding to me?

    I don't think I ever told you this is "normal". In your case, you MAY just have someting amiss.

    I can't understand for the life of me why you wouldn't take the time to at least have a dealer take a look at it?

    He will do one of three things.

    1. Discover a true problem and fix it.

    2. Discover a problem and confer with Honda as how to deal with it.

    3. Declare it's normal. If this is the case since it bothers you to the degree it does, I would buy something different.

    I'm just trying to be helpful here. You don't have to snap back!
  • phantomvphantomv Posts: 101
    Isell - Sorry - the cumulative effect of yrmac's posts and yours in the face of all the evidence that what I am experiencing is normal - as noted in multiple road tests by multiple reviewers, AND just as irritating to them as others here, many others including myself, made me angry.

    Pat - I asked you before - have you driven the V6 VCM automatic? As I have said - I am willing to concede, and have, my car is normal and only wish others considering the car to be really really careful - this is an engine with an operating system unlike any other engine on the road, Honda or otherwise. It is not a V6 Accord. It is a V6 with VCM Accord - with a 6-4-3 change an ENORMOUS difference. Even the Odyssey only has two modes of operation 6-3. Thisis the ONLY engine other than the Cadillac V- 8-6-4 to have three separate cylinder modes of operation. We know what happened to that - Honda engineers assure that this engine will not experience the same fate.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonPosts: 17,782
    I just don't understand. I haven't felt this in the V-6's I've driven nor have I heard of this until now.

    Maybe if I tried to feel it I could?

    I'm not trying to trivalize your situation but as bad as you make it out to be, I really suspect something may be wrong.
  • Best advice from me and I work for a Honda dealer, is take the vehicle to a Honda dealer. From what your stating you may have a totally different problem all together. I would strongly encourage you to take a trip to the dealer and just let them look into the issue. I promise you will be a lot happier after you do that.
  • He will do one of three things.

    1. Discover a true problem and fix it.

    2. Discover a problem and confer with Honda as how to deal with it.

    3. Declare it's normal. If this is the case since it bothers you to the degree it does, I would buy something different. Actually, he/she will do one of four things (and as many have experienced myself and golf included)

    Actually, you forgot option four (which unfortunately is the one that posters like golf and I are concerned about and are experiencing)

    4. Declare there to be a problem, confer with Honda and announce that they currently have no idea how to fix the problem because they can't put their finger on what is causing it. We'll get back to you.

    How long are we expected to wait?
  • isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonPosts: 17,782
    If this is truly the case you can be sure Honda has it's best brains on this.
  • golfrskigolfrski Posts: 262
    Do not live in Canada. Car was built in Marysville Oct 2007
  • HI,i have taken my 08 accord with vibration at 55-80 mph ..also surging at that speeds and lower,balanced front tires again,no inprovement,.......service manager said no problem in his eyes.said its the characteristics of the vichele........sooooo much for taken it back to dealer........first car in 40 years that i have owned that surges and vibrates at highway speed..........i will just wait and see if a fix comes down from Honda........i belive they have a growing problem with this new 08........Chevy looking better each day i drive this poor excuse for a Honda......
  • Check post #284 where I first introduced my problem to the Honda dealership where I purchased my car and then later opened a case with Honda America.

    According to my service manager a Honda special technician spent three days for a total of 18 hours trying to correct the problems with my car. They were finally able to rid the car of the thumping sound in the car by replacing both mics, one in the front and one in the back, as part of the automatic noise cancellation system (ANC). For the vibration, the tech did something called harmonic balancing of the tires. There are four critical areas, I am told, on a tire that should be showing a road force of 10-12 to be acceptable. Three of my tires had much higher readings. All three tires were replaced and the road force readings were now showing low readings between 0 & 3. (Remember this is me, a non mechanical type trying to explain what I was told) The service manager and I took the car out for a long test drive and I started to feel the vibration again, with peak vibration at 72 mph. My imagination I thought? Told the service manager to drive the car and he confirmed that he can feel the vibration. Is this a VCM problem? They think not. What is causing the vibration? At this time we just don't know.

    The general manager and service manager told me that I should be a100% satisfied with a car I purchase from them. Solution -- they will replace my car with an exact duplicate. I am to drive it with dealer plates for two or three days to make sure everything is right. My worry about VCM? If everything is right with the new car an extended warranty at no cost has been offered. The new car should be here in about a week.

    I drive 43 miles one way to a dealership because I know it has an excellent reputation. Yes it is taking some time to solve the problem, but without any undue pressure from me I believe the dealership has done an outstanding job in upholding their reputation and also Honda's reputation.

    Will let you know how the replacement car works out.
  • yrmacyrmac Posts: 134
    A good example of what some of the posters here should be doing instead of just posting their woes here. Go to the dealer and let them try to duplicate the problem and find a real solution. It might get you somewhere.
  • yrmacyrmac Posts: 134
    dpsports,

    Would you like to share with us some specifics? (i.e dealer's name that you conferred with).
    Also, if you truly believe that this is a major problem for you, we have several options here in Ontario to address your VCM issues such as CAMVAP. If you feel that Honda is not addressing your concerns, then CAMVAP might be a route for you to take.
  • yrmacyrmac Posts: 134
    Phantomv, :that link you just provided goes directly to the Honda USA website with a heading: "Accord Sedan: Awards and Accolades". You might want to rethink of what you just did if you want others to be wary of the 8th Gen. Accord sedan.
  • HI,my car was built 7,oct and it has vibration at highway speed and surging ............
  • I definitely would love to know some stats here of all of us having the VCM Problem that either will or will not point to some correlations of the VCM problem we have felt as I try to work through this with my car with my dealer and the Area Honda Manager. Here is the low down on my car and I only have the surging feeling, "hunting" feel, but I have not felt the vibration end of things some of you have in your cars. For the purposes of all us talking with Honda or our dealers I want to have in a way a feel for this VCM problem as I speak with anyone connected with Honda. First question: is the VCM problem in both Coupes and Sedans or is it more prevailant in one body type than the other? ( would body style availability at this point in time of the new model skew that count for now?)Canada Cars more than US sold cars or vice versa? Is the vibration issue associated with the VCM problem experienced with the Sedans and not the Coupes or there is no difference? We have talked about the speeds we all seem to feel the surging at and that has been helpful stats for me to test my own car and to also share this with Honda. Is the "age" mileage on your car a factor? Will this point to more problems for all of us down the road? (More surging now more vibration with age? or it won't make any difference it was bad from the start?) So I am curious needless to say to ask all of you experiencing this VCM problem to give basic car stats to see if there is any type of correlation between the type of Honda Accord you have, when it was manufactured and for what Country etc. We may find no real correlation and that in itself will be helpful answer needless to say as I continue to work with my dealer and Honda I definitely will share this to help towards a possible solution for the techs and engineers. We obviously are the best information for them as real world owners of these cars. So humor me in a way and follow my lead on the stats info and add anything you think would be helpful for all of us and Honda and give some general specifics about your car. We of course all should know we will have a V-6 Auto Trans in whatever body style we own.

    Stats to answer:

    My Particular Car: Manufactured 01/08 Marysville, Ohio
    Sold and titled in the U.S.
    Body: Coupe

    VCM Problem: Feel Hunting Surging Feel more so 60-65 and around 68-72
    I have yet to feel vibrations or hear any noises

    Approx Mileage: 1,000


    If anyone thinks any other stats would be helpful for us to know on the VCM problem feel free to add your stat info and we will just go back and answer those too for those of us that already answered.

    I or anyone else in here or Honda for that matter will have some stats to go on that we may not be aware of since no one I know as of yet has compiled this from us who are having the VCM Problem probably other than the speed range stats.

    We might find none of this matters any type of car no matter where sold no matter how much mileage is on the car no matter what type of body style you have the VCM Problem can affect us all in the same way. For instance let's take one issue we have read in here and that is the vibration issue, but I dont know what the body style is of their cars. We might see a pattern by the answers we may find only sedan owners have the vibration issues -- hmm or not or anything else might help point Honda in a right direction on part of this issue. Does it matter when the car was manufactured? don't know yet and the list goes on.

    Again, I can't stress enough that you need to open a case number with Honda about your VCM Problem. My car goes to the dealer this coming Monday. I wrote a two page letter about my car and I also included copies of posts in here to Honda and my dealer's service manager. All info is helpful and it has been for me to hear what other owners are experiencing in this forum. And yes the VCM Issue will be put on paper for my car at my dealer and I will insist on test drive with me and my car while I am there that day. After that I will call Honda again and update the Area Manager. Do not leave it up to your dealer to open a case for you as the Area Honda Manager who is in California told me all dealers do not share everything with Honda so it is up to you to get it done and it needs to be done as I have stated here before. Someone who parks down from me in the garage at work bought an Accord like mine a few days ago from the same dealer I bought my car from and you can bet I will be talking with them if they are having a VCM problem. Thanks ahead of time for your answers to the stat questions as I have been curious here as I read other posters and some in here have hinted at them wanting to know some stats on other people's cars to maybe get more of a handle on this problem some of us are experiencing.
  • phantomvphantomv Posts: 101
    And wrong with all the vehicles that were tested by USA Today, WSJ, and Autoweek too?
  • phantomvphantomv Posts: 101
    I give up :sick: - I did not blindly refer anyone to the Honda site - I said to read the road tests thay have there!!!!!!!!!! USA Today and Autoweek

    They confirm with their own experiences what golfrski, myself and others have said and are experiencing - the system is NOT seamless and passengers Do notice.

    Aaaaarrrgghhh! Deny reality people. This is a genuine embedded problem inherent in the engineering concept. Cadillac did not get it - Honda hasn't either.
    Hmmm...if such a great idea, why does NO OTHER CAR MANUFACTURER.offer a three mode cylinder deactivation system?? :confuse:
  • yrmacyrmac Posts: 134
    Cody3764,

    Here is what I can tell you based of what you just posted:

    You will not have any problems with the VCM technology and the surging/hunting sensation as you aptly described is not due to VCM. Do more research please.

    Also, go to another Honda dealer since the one you are dealing right now is clueless.
  • yrmacyrmac Posts: 134
    Sir,

    You are the one who might be in denial. You throw all these sputum about the Accord but refuses to go to the Honda dealer to get a resolution. You keep repeating that VCM is not ready for the market but you bought the car anyways. Sir, you are full of contradiction.

    Here is another point for you to consider. The VCM technology is new and Honda has the technology to make this work. Comparing this VCM to a Cadillac system from the 1980's is like comparing the Model T to a 2008 Ford F-150. Apples and oranges. Zeitgeist if you prefer, Cadillac didn't the technology back then, Honda does now. Just like when Honda came up with the VTEC innovation. Honda was the first one to succesfully marketed it and now every car manufacturer is using the technology.
  • HI 3764, DATE MFG 10/7 Marysville ....titied us....Body seadan v/6....vcm problem........vibration felt in steering wheel and floor at lower speeds 35-45 .........vibration felt again in steering wheel at highway speed 60- 75..........some slight surging at highway speed.........steering wheel vibration feels like a tire out of balance.............balance has been checked and is ok.......
  • jhinscjhinsc Posts: 399
    Hmmm...if such a great idea, why does NO OTHER CAR MANUFACTURER.offer a three mode cylinder deactivation system??

    Here is my $.02 for what it's worth. I have an 06 EX-V6 - love the car and looking forward to another one if I choose to get a 4-door car - may end up with a crossover due to work.

    I also have an 07 Chev Avalanche with 2-mode cylinder deactivation. At low speeds I can't physically tell when it switches between 8 and 4 cyl. At highway speeds, you can feel it on a level road as if the engine lost a bit of power but still able to maintain a steady speed. I don't how any car manufacturer can engineer cylinder deactivation without any noticeable affect whatsoever. When you deactivate 2 or 3 cyl in a V6, how could you possibly expect it to feel and act the same as if it was make full power from all 6 cyl? If that is your expectation level, then this technology is not for you and you should move on to another vehicle without it. Granted, Honda is advertising that's it unnoticeable or imperceptible, which it apparently seems to most people. If you truly have a problem with vibrations and shuddering from the drivetrain, then you need to take it back to the dealer service to be looked at. Honda is known for their engineering advancements. They are upgrading to the 3-mode system on the Odyssey from it's previous 2-mode system so it appears they have a lot of confidence in it. It's going to take a variety of engineering advancements in order to increase fuel efficiency, and cylinder deactivation is one of them. Honda, GM and Chrysler now use it and we should expect to see it from other manufacturers as well. No matter what fuel saving technology is used, it will affect how cars and trucks feel and drive in the future.

    Drive a couple of other V6's to compare how they drive to your's. (maybe you did this already) I did before I got my 06 Accord. It was between the Accord and Passat. I drove 2 different Passats and one rode horribly as if the tires were out of round or not balanced properly and the other rode as smooth as glass. In the end, the Accord was a better value for me. :shades:
  • phantomvphantomv Posts: 101
    FACTS

    1. The Honda V6 VCM is the ONLY multiple cylinder engine deactivation
    program in the automotive marketplace today.
    2. Cadillac is the only other manufacturer to have ever tried this with the V-8-6-4.
    We know what a disaster that was. Yes it was in the 80's.
    3. Honda advertises the VCM on its website: “The transition between the three
    operating modes is completely seamless and goes unnoticed by the Accord’s
    passengers.”
    4. The WSJ reviewer in his January 25,2008, review said: “…the Accord was fitted
    with a 268-horsepower, 3.5-liter V6 with what Honda calls Variable Cylinder
    Management. This technology is designed to boost fuel economy by allowing
    the six-cylinder engine to run on just three or four cylinders when full power isn't
    needed. It works almost seamlessly, but in this case, "almost" isn't good
    enough. During highway driving with the cruise control on I could feel a slight
    vibration when the engine switched from three- to four- to six-cylinder mode,
    which it does often, a downright maddening behavior. That the Accord managed
    only 22 miles per gallon during my testing, a single mile per gallon better than
    the Malibu, only made this all the more annoying.”
    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB120111703171810629.html? mod=todays_us_weekend_journal

    5. The reviewers for two road tests cited on Honda’s website under “Accolades”
    said the following:
    USA Today 8/42/07 – If you step up to the V-6 model you will get blazing
    performance but rougher downshifting than in the four cylinder cars. Also, a
    sensitive driver can feel the V-6 go through its multi cylinder transitions”
    Autoweek – 8/21/07 – “When driving the multi-cylinder deactivation V-6, we did
    detect a hybrid like torque –on/torque-off feel when cruising at 60 or 70 MPH
    under slight throttle (at about 2000-2500 RPM).Because the green “ECO”
    indicator was illuminated showing that the engine was running in fuel saving
    economy mode, we were no doubt picking up the engine cycling between four
    and three cylinder modes.”
    6. Numerous owners posting in this forum have experienced similar issues with
    their personal V6 VCM cars. Dealers have not been able to come up with a
    solution or address their dissatisfaction

    OPINIONS

    1.I honestly think there may be some isolated problems and I also believe some
    people may be a bit over sensitive?
    2.Harping about your problems here and not bringing your car to the dealer to
    get it checked just doesn't make any sense. Buying a Honda does not exempt
    you for not having any car issues, you are in denial if you think otherwise.
    3. It seems clear that there are a whole lot of 08 V6 owners who are not
    experiencing the difficulties you are…
    4. You are the one who might be in denial. You throw all these sputum about the
    Accord but refuses to go to the Honda dealer to get a resolution.
  • blufz1blufz1 Posts: 2,045
    I think the 3 cylinder mode is the problem. More vibration when running a V motor on only 1 cylinder bank. Further, it's bad design and not "fixable" by some dealershep tech. So don't let the dealership touch your car! See what Honda will do. Maybe a lifetime ownership warranty is the best you can do and hope Honda fixes it. Maybe they can come up with a fix to eliminate 3 cylinder operation. Just my .03. :)
  • phantomvphantomv Posts: 101
    FACT

    Edmunds Long Term Road Test -

    "We'll see how effective it is as the miles pile on, but I observed the ECO light coming on quite a bit during routine driving. The switchover to and from ECO mode isn't quite imperceptible. It's certainly more noticeable than the last VCM-equipped Odyssey we tested. " Jason Kavanagh, Engineering Editor @ 3,954 miles

    "Cruising on the highway, I felt a minor shudder as the engine switched cylinders on and off. More time in a production model will give me a better sample of how smooth the cylinder shut-down works." Family Car

    http://www.familycar.com/RoadTests/HondaAccord/Index2008.htm

    How VCM Operates

    http://www.honda.co.nz/hondaV6/about-vcm.html
  • I've had my Accord since Jan1,2008 and I haven't noticed one bit of change while accelerating, cruising, etc. I own a1990 Lexus LS400 and 2004 Acura MDX and this is the best car I've owned in 20 years.
    I have read a few comments before buying the car referring to the two mics inside the engine going bad and therefore making the car "noisy" compared to when working properly.
  • gnomegnome Posts: 7
    Thank you for your well-reasoned post 650. As I reported previously (posts 485 and 586), I have a 2008 EX-L V6 coupe which continues to please me greatly for its smooth power. I was very satisfied with my 2002 and 2007 coupes but the 2008 surpasses both. The car was assembled in Marysville, Ohio, presumably in Sept. 2007. I took delivery on Oct. I/07. Some 3500 miles later, I have not found any surging or what I would call vibration. Nonetheless, in view of the unhappy reports of some others, I've gone searching to find a problem I didn't know I might have. Result: the car refuses to annoy me. I've gone at different speeds in the 55-65-70 range, cruise on and off, up and down hill. I did a 1000-mile round trip, mostly @ 65-70. I've tried to convince myself that there is a hint of vibration on ECO about 60. This a problem? Tire balance? Road surface? Maybe. Perceptions vary. Cars vary. I continue to grin behind the wheel.
  • elroy5elroy5 Posts: 3,741
    gnome, your car is definitely surging, and vibrating constantly. There is "no way" that you can possibly drive the car, and not notice this "maddening" behavior. :confuse: phantomv said so, almost 100 times now. All of these cars are "exactly the same".

    At least he thinks so.
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    I think it's obvious that all of the cars are not exactly the same and I do not think the sarcasm is helpful. So let's skip it, please.
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