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Honda Accord VCM

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Comments

  • golfrskigolfrski Posts: 262
    sorry oh wise one... Nissan. let that simple mistake negate all my posts.. :shades:
  • elroy5elroy5 Posts: 3,741
    let that simple mistake negate all my posts..

    If you insist. :confuse:
  • itochuitochu Posts: 107
    "My Honda Tech, who felt the hunting and surging in my car and verified it contacted the online Tech help and they talked with Honda techs in California and they are aware of the VCM when they stated to him that about 30% of the cars they drive out there in California the VCM is felt more than other cars and they say at this time it's within the normal limits."

    Are not the online Tech help people and Honda techs in California Honda employees? Do they not represent Honda? I never said Honda of America, the corporation itself, had admitted anything as you suggest. That was your mistaken inference.
  • itochuitochu Posts: 107
    They put him in a V6 Coupe with 6MT
  • itochuitochu Posts: 107
    Whoops- sorry Pat - did that wrong - thanks for pointing it out and how to copy a link. :)
  • itochuitochu Posts: 107
    I would agree - if the legal rewwards could be greater like with mesothelioma, class action attorneys would be jumping all over it.
  • yrmacyrmac Posts: 134
    Gimme a break...No they do not. Unless Honda releases a TSB in regards to this problem, techs opinions, might it be online or Californian, are just that, an OPINION. Also, you are getting the 30% from a third party and you're posting this number as if it's an official stat coming from Honda.
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    How 'bout we calm down and back off the personal confrontations, eh?
  • yrmacyrmac Posts: 134
    For awhile there, I really thought you own one of these 8th gen. Accord and you are having problems with the VCM. Sorry my mistake, you don't even have a dog in this race.
  • parvizparviz Posts: 484
    I am just wondering why (and how) some people who don't even own the V6 w/ VCM are so passionately trying to trash the technology and the manufacturer behind it.
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    Why don't we stick to the subject and leave off discussing other posters? It's easy enough to ignore posts we do not find useful.
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    what part of "why don't we stick to the subject and leave off discussing other posters" wasn't clear, but let me try again.

    We need to stop talking about other posters. If you continue to do that, your posts will be deleted and your posting privileges here may be removed.

    We need to get back on topic. If you have questions or comments for me, please email me, do not post them here.

    Thank you.
  • Just bought my 08 Accord. I had unfortunately not read any of this forum and was thus unaware of any issue with VCM. Considering the glowing reviews the new accord seems to be getting at Consumer Reports and Edmunds, I figured I was safe, but now i have some regrets.

    my vcm does not seem to be as severe as some out there, but basically i echo others' sentiments when i say it is absolutely annoying. in essence it feels like the car is either inappropriately downshifting (giving the lurching feeling of being in too low of a gear so that the car needs to slow down quickly on its own), or a slight surge of power as the eco light goes off.

    give me a break. i spent 30k+ with options on this car and my prior ride (05 mazda6) along with every other automatic transmission car in the universe rides smoother than mine new one. i hope to god they come out with a way to at least give owners the option to override vcm completely if they want. i'll eat the gas money (assuming vcm saves me any) just to have a smooth riding car.

    at this point i'm not going to return the car as I feel like there are a lot of other benefits and things i enjoy about it, but damn if i'm not a little upset about this.
  • cstilescstiles Posts: 465
    American Honda just released a major press announcement that states that VCM will be installed on all Honda lawnmowers, power generators, and scooters by model year 2010. Applications for the Honda Advanced Compact Business Jet, as well as for the Honda ASIMO Humanoid Robot, are also under analysis.
    At a press conference at the New York Auto Show, Honda CEO Takeo Fukui indicated, "Variable Cylinder Management is the single greatest technological advancement since the advent of the CVCC engine in the 1976 Accord. We are proud to announce that VCM will be available as a standard feature on all of our power products within the next 4 years. R&D has begun for the next generation of the Hondajet Advanced Compact Business Jet to be released in 2014, and we plan to offer VCM on the next ASIMO Humanoid Robot. ASIMO tends to rattle too much when he laughs at my bad jokes. I trust that VCM will help him relax and calm down a little."
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    Aren't you about 12 days early with this? ;)
  • parvizparviz Posts: 484
    I have experienced some of what you have mentioned in your post regarding the downshift. However, I do not believe that has anything to do with the VCM. I could be wrong, though.
  • jam1000jam1000 Posts: 182
    "... every other automatic transmission car in the universe rides smoother than mine new one ..."

    Bingo. I agree with Parviz that it may not be VCM, but instead the transmission shift points. Or perhaps some changes they made in the transmission shift points to accommodate the VCM.

    It's good for you that you're prepared to live with it, b/c when I discussed this with the American Honda CSR, he said it's normal, end of story.
  • sunnfunsunnfun Posts: 168
    Well I gave in and took my car back to the dealer today. Since the dealer I bought the car from is an hour away, I went to the local dealer instead.
    First thing the SM tells me when I arrive is that if there is an issue with the car that needs to be fixed, I will have to take it back to the dealer I bought it from. Any car with less than 3000 miles (mine has 749) has to be fixed by the originating dealer due to some finance issue relate to the check list they should have followed when the car was pulled off the truck. (I have never heard of this??????) I did not argue, I figured I would deal with that later.
    So he gets a tech and we take a test drive. Before the drive, I tell him (the tech) the issues that I am having with the VCM. I could tell by his eyes and facial expression this was not new to him. As it turns out, they get a couple of cars a month returning because of the VCM issue. We take the test drive and the car performed as it normally does for me. He was not surprised but said my car was better than most (what does that say about the other cars????).
    We return and he determines that it is working as it should (I assumed that would be the answer. I don't believe anything is broken, it's just a poor design) and there is nothing they can do (surprise surprise) So we chat a little more and he says that "the car is not seamless, and unnoticeable to the user". "Every Accord V6 does the same thing as mine". "The difference is the driver". "Some are more in tune with their car like me, and some people are in la la land and don't know anything is going on under the hood". "Honda should have never put that seamless information in their info" (no kidding). He said the older Odysseys are worse (I don't own one so I can't verify that). Since the Odysseys have had the VCM issues for years and Honda has never fixed them, don't expect a fix on these either. On a good note, he has not seen any engine problems because of the VCM (I did not ask about the Odyssey tranny issues).
    So that puts me back to square one. When the Honda Case Mgr calls me back after talking to the dealer, I'm sure I'll get the "there's nothing we can do" answer and that will be it. And since the Odyssey has never been fixed, I would not expect a fix on this either. I'm very disappointed. I spent alot of money and am not happy with the car. Now I have to start the whole test drive/email/price neg thing again on a different car.

    On a side note, when the Honda Case Mgr did ask me what I wanted Honda to do, I said fix the car. Since that does not look good now, has anyone negotiated anything else in a situation like this, like an extended warranty, or a car buy back with Honda?
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    He said the older Odysseys are worse (I don't own one so I can't verify that). Since the Odysseys have had the VCM issues for years and Honda has never fixed them, don't expect a fix on these either.

    Having ridden in (but not driven) a 2005 EX-L Odyssey (brand new with less than 2k miles at the time) on a short trip from Birmingham to Tuscaloosa, AL, I can say that I felt nothing; although I did look at the ECO light to try and see when it changed. Never noticed a vibration or surge.

    The owner of that Odyssey is a mechanic that fixes up old sports cars (a '62 Corvette and a Porsche 914, to name the most recent ones). He's never mentioned a problem with it, and WE recommended the Honda dealer to them, so i feel like we'd have heard something by now if they had issues with it.

    I say all that to say this: it sounds like the Accord VCM has more issues than the Odyssey VCM based on personal experience with an Odyssey, and what I've read about the Accord. Don't be so sure Honda won't fix it just yet.
  • blufz1blufz1 Posts: 2,045
    That's what I been tellin' you guys. It ain't broke so they can't fix it. At least your Honda tech was that smart. It's perception, and most drivers won't notice/care. Were I in your sit. I would go for a free extended warranty for all drivetrain components for as long as you own the car. I would then plan to drive the car "forever" and get a new engine or tranny free under the warranty, should they fail. Hope this helps.
  • jerrywimerjerrywimer Posts: 588
    First off, to keep the record straight (and hopefully prevent any argumentative replies that are off-topic), I "don't have a dog in this race". No 08 Honda Accord V6 or Honda Odyssey minivan with VCM.

    But I have owned a GM vehicle with AFM (GM's version of cylinder deactivation technology). It was a 2007 Avalanche (V8). I ordered some GM accessories as part of the purchase of the vehicle, but it came before they did. One of the accessories was a custom exhaust system (mildly loud). Since I got the truck first, I was able to see the difference before and after for the exhaust. One of the unexpected things I noticed was that the V8-V4 changeover was imperceptible to me with the quiet stock exhaust. I was able to tell this because one of the DIC display modes shows the engine mode (V8 or V4). Once the factory exhaust was installed, I was able to tell fairly easily when the engine changed modes, both by sound, and to a much lesser extent, by a very slight change in feel (not a lurching as some have described with their Accords here, though).

    This same issue came up on some of the forums I've visited, by other owners of GM products. Some feel the changeover strongly, while others barely notice it at all. That may mean that, evidently like these Accords, different vehicles actually feel it to a greater or lesser extent, or just that some folks are more sensitive to it than others.

    But as far as the Odyssey vs. the Accord comparison goes, I'd be willing to bet that the greater mass of the vehicle (with the same engine) results in two mitigating factors as far as the VCM 'noticibility' is concerned:

    1. The engine most likely doesn't operate as often or as long in 3/4 cylinder mode (does the Odyssey's version of VCM even do both the other modes?). Much like driving the Accord without the cruise set.
    2. The greater mass of the van means that any lurching the engine does is overcome to a greater extent by the vehicle's inertia, effectively masking the engine's effect more than the lighter car will.

    In any case, nobody seems to have experienced reliability issues with the GM system, and (Honda's engineering being what it usually is) I doubt it will be any different with your cars. It most likely will come down to whether you notice the changeover, and if you do, whether it's too bothersome to live with or not.
  • sunnfunsunnfun Posts: 168
    Just got a call back from my Case Mgr (I will say that he is very professional and did call back when he said he would) Basically since the car is within specs, there is nothing they can do or offer to do. So my choices are drive the car or get rid of it. I guess I could escalate this up the Honda Corp ladder and meet with a higher level rep but I don't see anything changing. It's sad they say it's seamless and it's not, as verified by the dealer tech. That seems like fraud to me. I don't know how that would play out in court, nor how long it would take, and in the mean time it does not fix the car. So I guess this weekend I will be test driving new cars again.

    On second thought, there is one last avenue, Senior Mgmt. I wonder if the President etc.. know about this? I'll email them and see what happens. It has worked in the past for other issues.
  • rscharscha Posts: 12
    There is no evidence to support that the VCM will ever become a problem or limt the life of your car. I have a neighbor with a VCM equipped Van and after 40K he never realized he has a VCM and never had a problem with the car. This is not new technology and even Mercedes is using it and has for 10 years. The VCM also reduces emmissions making the car greener than other cars packed with some power.

    Every car and driver is different. I drove 4 of the V6 models before buying one and felt nothing that was quirky. The Odessey van had a perfect Consumer Reports record for engine quality and the Hybrids as well that use the same technology. Some of the descriptions state owners feel a surge when the car goes out of ECO mode. This surge and shift as described while going out of ECO mode means you accelerated as the only time the ECO light goes off is when you it the pedal. Any car has a surge of power and down shift when you step on it. Unless the car was not properly tuned by the dealer, there was a tech notice requireing an acceleration adjustment on the earlier production cars. Teh factory now ships them properly tuned.

    I think if your looking for a problem as with anything you will find it either real or imagined. Basically if your as confused as I was after reading this blogg go to the dealer drive one check the professional reviews and consumers reports and make your own judgement. As they say dont believe everything you read, I would not be surprised if some of the posts are from hondas competition.
  • sunnfunsunnfun Posts: 168
    there was a tech notice requiring an acceleration adjustment on the earlier production cars Can you provide more info on this? What adjustments, was there a TSB for this? etc....

    Just an FYI - Some of the descriptions state owners feel a surge when the car goes out of ECO mode. This surge and shift as described while going out of ECO mode means you accelerated as the only time the ECO light goes off is when you hit the pedal Not true. That is the whole issue. The car does it while in CC or reg pedal at a constant speed. This has nothing to do with acceleration. I'm glad you don't feel it on yours, but according to my dealer tech, EVERY car does it.
  • jam1000jam1000 Posts: 182
    This is more or less where I am in my own thinking -- a court fight, even if successful, would mean putting up with the aggravation and the car for many more months (and even then, if you win they take out some depreciation from your final award, I believe). A lose-lose situation: we're out a few thousand bucks (but learned a valuable lesson about the technology and about American Honda Motor Co.) and Honda loses customer loyalty and referral business, which in the long run is much more than whatever profit they made on the sale of the cars.

    I have thought about the letter up the corporate chain possibility as well, but my assumption is that it will get kicked back down to the same set of Case Managers who told you (and me) that it's normal so live with it or get rid of the car.

    The other possibility regarding the deceptiveness of the "seamless" statement is the Federal Trade Commission and the consumer protection office of the state you live in (usually located within the attorney general's office). They can be very effective if you can get them interested in your plight.
  • cstilescstiles Posts: 465
    I agree with you and think you make a lot of good points.

    I have a 2006 Odyssey with almost 40K miles on it. It has VCM but only the 6 to 3 to 6 cyl version. I can feel the very slight sensation/resonance when the cylinder switches over, but agree with you that the greater mass coupled with all of the other mechanical sounds mostly mitigates the sensation. It's likely more noticeable on the lighter and smaller Accord, as you stated.

    VCM is another technological enhancement that represents cars doing more of the driving for us. In the name of safety or efficiency, features such as VCM, CVT, runflat technology a la Michelin's PAX, intelligent cruise control, lane departure mitigation systems, stability and traction assistance, parking assistance, etc. all combine to chip away at the "purety" of driving all by yourself. When alternatives to gasoline become a broad-based reality, we'll see more of these types of innovations and consumer reactions.

    No question that lives are saved and the earth benefits in incremental ways. But some consumers will complain that the various sensations and big brother interventions are simply unnacceptable to them. It's my opinion that the isolated reactions to VCM (excluding individual mechanical defects) are just another example of that development. Rick Waggoner at GM suggests that thanks to technology, cars will eventually just drive themselves. That's actually a scary proposition.
  • blufz1blufz1 Posts: 2,045
    Don't throw the baby out with the bath water. You will lose 1000's if you run and trade it in. Consider whether longevity is comprised by the VCM,it may not be the case. I would re think trading it in. Just my .02 trying to save you some $.
  • Let us know what happens. It would seem to me that they MUST know about all these complaints.
  • rscharscha Posts: 12
    Check with your dealer, I investigated the issue and was told that in 07 there was an adjustment that had to be done to the early 08" Accords. I don't remember the details but I was told this is the only TSB on the 08".

    As for acceleration while your CC is on your car accelerates to go up slight inclines and maintain the set speed. This acceleration will turn the ECO light off. In my case it is undetectable. I suspect that some of the cars where the driver feels a vibration may have defective motor mounts.
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