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Honda Accord VCM

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Comments

  • blh7068blh7068 Posts: 376
    "Sorry honda and current honda lovers, but its true... this car is a miss."

    huh? How can you possibly speak for others? elroy is spot on...not all vcm owners are going to post like experiences to mine.

    For example, road noise doesnt bother me as much as perhaps another poster. My 06 pilot has plenty of that, but that aspect wouldnt keep me from buying another one. However if the 09 vcm Pilot behaves like the vcm Accord, all bets are off. Ill keep my 06.
  • packer3packer3 Posts: 277
    Like I said threads ago if your going to buy a car, keep the radio off the windows up and tell the salesman in the car with you not to say a word while your driving the car unless you ask him to. Also don't test drive the car with anybody else in the car thats a major distraction. After you read the threads and test drive the car of choice you will then have an idea what to look for and what you can live with.
  • shinbone1shinbone1 Posts: 9
    I'm not an Odyssey owner yet, but I hope to have a new Touring by the end of June. My question is: can the the tranny be locked in 4th gear while driving around town, thereby preventing an up-shift into overdrive? And if so, will driving in fourth gear over-ride the VCM and keep the engine working on all six cylinders?
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    No, the transmission can be put in Drive (normal), D3 (operates as a three speed automatic, with 1-2-3), 2 (locks in 2nd gear), and 1 (locks in first gear).

    The van won't go into 5th gear much before 45 MPH anyway, so I don't see the point of needing to lock in 4th, after driving a 2005 Odyssey extensively.
  • csrexlv6csrexlv6 Posts: 1
    I've had my new EX-L V6 for two weeks now after trading in my 2004 V6, so here are my thoughts in no particular order:

    Positive:
    #1 The ride is much smoother.
    #2 The steering ratio is much better for parking, even on a slightly bigger car.
    #3 Little bit more power is always nice for avoiding stupid drivers while trying to merge on to the highway here in Dallas, the city of driving idiots! However, the 2004 wasn't bad, either.
    #4 Interior is more along the lines of a luxury car. Woodgrain is a nice compliment.
    #5 Exterior styling. I hated it when it first came out, probably because I loved the '04 styling better than any of the previous/successive versions, but it has grown on me like a weed.
    #6 Sunroof controls. Like the one-touch control.
    #7 Better range on the garage door HomeLink system.
    #8 Driving lights with auto lighting, along with fog lamps. Fog's were an option back in the '04 days, but standard now on my version.

    Negative:
    #1 Master volume control. The bigger knob on the instrument panel should have been inverted from the smaller control to control the audio system as sometimes the steering wheel volume control is not sufficient to turn the sound down quickly. I've got used to it, but still.
    #2 Climate controls. I liked the old dial controls for this better than the up/down controls as it takes longer to adjust the settings. Also takes your eyes off the road for a longer period of time because of the delay.
    #3 Adjustable driver right-side arm rest. Too much room between my right elbow/arm and resting my right hand on the shifter (no, I'm not a midget). Love my '04 in that respect.
    #4 The car wash that scratched my clear coat and window tint yesterday. Not happy.

    No matter what, I like this version better than my previous V6. Isn't that what a new car is all about?

    CSR
  • ladyleahladyleah Posts: 5
    I am totally in love with my EXl V6 w/navi (just bought it on Friday last week!) in almost every way. However, the VCM surge is really not cool. I thought I was going insane until I found the VCM forum. Golf's original post describes exactly what is happening. I live in northern NJ where there are hills everywhere-- and the ECO light almost turns into a strobe light with its clicking on and off constantly (and surges as well of course). It makes Route 80 driving quite unpleasant. It happens with cruise control as well, but maybe a little less. I only have about 115 miles on it.

    Going to the dealer tomorrow for "tests"--will be sure to update everyone. :cry:
  • golfrskigolfrski Posts: 262
    Dont waste your time,, I will save you the gas. Honda will tell you its normal and will do nothing about it TRUST ME.

    They can test till the cows come home, but this is "how the VCM is designed to operate". They need to change the advertising from "seamless and goes unnoticed" to "Maddening and drives you insane"

    take the car back before its too late, get the EXL with navi loaded in the 4 cyl.. you will thank me later. engine is still peppy and the fog lights are only abit less attractive as an option

    Golf
  • ladyleahladyleah Posts: 5
    Golf- I was under the impression that I couldn't do that without "trading" it in...which would cost me some serious $$! Do you know something I don't!?

    I am actually not going in until next week now anyways....but I suspect that exactly what you just stated will happen.

    I will just pray that the thing smooths out after 3K like others have said----or I need to get REALLY zen and learn to love the surges. :(
  • golfrskigolfrski Posts: 262
    Well, I would demand they look at it asap,, I would talk to the Service manager ( whom btw I predict will almost certainly tell you.."I havent heard any complaints about that, this is news to me, you are the only one") Mmm Hmmmmmmmm

    I would ask to talk to the District honda Rep and explain your dissatisfaction. In the end Honda will give you the party line about this... you will really need to lean on your Honda dealership to make you happy. That I am afraid, will most likely be another car before the miles get too high to sell... make your decision quickly and do the full court press now at the dealer level....

    I think you will find my experience consistent with others that have had the same level of frustration with the car...in the end, Honda has not solved my/their problem

    I really know of only one person who's VCM surging, lurching disappeared and while I dont doubt their experience I would bet my car, they just got used to it, the car didnt auto correct itself.. its is design to do what it does. the VCM "shock" (as Honda is now calling it ). ( btw anyone hear of that term in the advertising or literature??? nope think not,,, but guess what, it now has an official title/label) is a by-prduct of the VCM technology,, you either love it or hate it I am afraid.

    If you hate it now,,, buckle in for a long road trip down Disdain Ave...."in my opinion"
  • ladyleahladyleah Posts: 5
    Hmmm...

    Thanks for the info. Were you able to trade your for the 4 cyl?
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    I'm not trying to speak for golf, but I don't think they have gotten rid of the V6 yet, based on my following this forum. If they have, I don't know it.

    golf's been getting a terrible runaround for awhile now with the dealer for his V6.
  • abeebabeeb Posts: 25
    Golf,

    Besides ljgbjg's experience with his car "healing" inself, I also have noticed a decrease in the VCM surge and vibrating activity in my car to a point where at times I would also consider it to be gone. Then I'll feel a slight surge (like today) and I know it's still around, just not nearly where it had been. It is definitely better than what it was a few months ago. I now have about 11K on it. Overall, I LOVE my car!

    I do not think that we are just getting used to it as you suggested may be the case with ljgbjg. I feel I am still very sensitive to what the car is doing and am always monitoring the feel of it. I do think that whatever ECM/mounts/transmission sensors, etc. are combining to either interact "seamlessly" (as is the case in most cars out there) or with the annoying surges/vibrations, there is a high probability that these parameters can move closer into "sync" over time, thus reducing the problem. This would explain my experience and others perhaps. However, by the same token, if this is the case, then those who currently are not experiencing any problems could have their fortunes reversed over time...!
  • golfrskigolfrski Posts: 262
    For the last poster NO, Honda has not allowed me to trade my car to a 4cyl. I offered very early on and they stonewalled me. In fact i offered all sorts of options to them which were totally reasonable and they bl;ew us off.

    I had a buddy of mine who is a car fanatic... With my car when driving in Cruise Control i DO NOT feel any VCM surging at all....on the inverse when using the gas pedal.. no matter how much I concentrate on zero movement the VCM is hyperactive. My buddy thinks the drive by wire / throttle is simply to sensitive.

    The vibration is another story... the dealer has finally admitted in writing to us that the vibration exsists a huge step in this sage.. however I dont see Honda doing anything about it, .. as far as the VCM decreasing in strength, I had another mechanic tell me that as you drive the car the fuel injectors will naturally build up carbon thus decreasing the VCM activity as a possibility.. not sure on that one but he is a mechanical engineer and has worked in the auto industry for 30 years.. his guess is as good as any I would think?

    Golf
  • ss4osuss4osu Posts: 1
    I have been reading these posts for over three months, while I have been shopping for my Accord. I test drove three different V6's, and never felt any type of surging on any of my five test drives. I bought my EX-L V6 last week and, once again, feel nothing except normal sensations that I have always felt with every car I have ever driven. I love the Accord so far, and I wonder how widespread these surges are, can a few cars out of 10,000's really be that different from the rest? I did test drive the 190 hp and was driven crazy by the whining of the engine - it didn't compare to the V6 at all in my opinion. I do hope that all issues get worked out, Honda should be willing to admit that possibly a few of their cars could be "off".
  • rscharscha Posts: 12
    I had the same experience as ss4osu I saw this post and almost changed my order to a 4cyl. I did not like the noise and then drove the 6 again for about 40 miles and then drove 4 different 6cyl cars and felt nothing unpleasant. I have the car now for over 3K miles and love the way it drives. I use cruise control with no issues and find it very powerful and to handle very well. I even live in NJ with a lot of hills and its not an issue for me.

    The 4cyl felt loose and had a lot of body roll in the front end. The cars did not compare it was like an Acura TL compared to a Hundai. Someone said that they believe that 30% of the cars have the problem I can't imagine that so many people can have such different experiences with the same car. This thread actually made me nuts looking to find a symptom of what other have expereneced but have not found any consistant issues at all.
  • gnomegnome Posts: 7
    I,too, have been following the sad reports about VCM induced surges and vibrations but I've had nothing of that kind in my 5000 miles with my 2008 EX-L V6 coupe. In fact, my car is a delight to drive, giving me a smooth surge of power when I call for it. I'm not mesmerized by the ECO but when I glance at it occasionaly it seems to be reporting what I sense -- nothing unusual at all. This is my third Accord coupe in recent years and I continue to smile behind the wheel. No troubles whatsoever. So if readers of these posts are put off by reports of VCM problems, let them reflect on the numerous (based on healthy Accord sales records) satisfied buyers. I'm one. Gnome
  • golfrskigolfrski Posts: 262
    the issue resides primarily in the 08 V6 sedans as opposed to the coupe's. I havent really seen any coupe owners have any significant VCM concerns out there... so good for you, you seem to be a lucky one.
  • cstilescstiles Posts: 465
    Well, for what it's worth (probably zilch), I drove 2 V6 sedans last weekend at my Honda dealer for about an hour. Good thing they like me since these are the 5th and 6th Accords I've test driven, without buying any of them. I had one extended drive without the salesman for about 40 minutes. The 2nd one was with salesman on board, for another 20 minutes. Drove the cars in town, on country roads, at a steady 45-55 on a parkway, and all the way between 60mph and 90mph on the freeway. Steady acceleration---nothing radical or stupid. Varied my speeds on open freeways to try to induce the VCM to kick on and kick off. Tried it with/without cruise. With/without A/C. With/without traction control. No radio, just the engine. Even shifted to neutral a couple times at speed just to see what would happen. A total of around 55 miles driven in the 2 cars.

    The ECO light came on a bunch. I felt some harmonic resonance and cylinder deactivation/activation between 50 and 70mph, typically when the cruise was off and a light touch on the accelerator. ECO/VCM was also triggered with the cruise on, but was less intrusive since my foot was doing less work, or unless the road elevation changed. The first car had about 30 miles on the odo, and the second was a sales manager's demonstrator with 1100 miles on it. The 2nd generation VCM is more noticeable than on my Odyssey, mostly because it kicks on/off more frequently, and engages different sets of cylinders. The resonance is similar to the Ody, but not intrusive. Neither the car or van are whisper quiet anyway. You can hear and feel the engine/tires in both, so at times that accentuates the VCM sensations, while other times it covers up VCM due to road or engine noise.

    I didn't sense any harsh surging or bucking that some have described, unless I was creating it with my own foot. Both cars also kicked down fine if I needed a lower gear. I had no issues with grade logic or drive by wire. Once your senses are tuned in, you definitely know when the VCM is doing its thing, but it's not annoying to me. It's a different sensation, and your foot learns to drive this car differently due to the VCM.

    IMO, this car is not as enjoyable to drive compared to previous Accords, primarily because it is larger with less road feel and "tossability." The car feels heavier and more substantial. But my 6spd coupe feels heavier and more substantial compared to my 2003 6spd, too. The throttle feel is more mechanical (drive by wire?), and the sensation is less engaging. But it still has that familiar, firm Honda ride that you don't find in a Toyota or even Nissan.

    Based on 55 miles of varied driving, I was left with a "ho hum" reaction and felt none of the bad stuff that some have described on these boards. Compared to my previous Accords, this car feels less connected or intuitive. Maybe it's the VCM and drive by wire. But it also felt like a good, solid piece of engineering with a quality feel to it. It's luxurious and huge inside. Even the steering wheel is fat. I miss the one in my previous coupe/sedan which were just the right size for me.

    Assuming VCM delivers fuel economy, I was left mostly impressed with this car. Based on the 2 VCM Accords I drove, I can't reconcile the handful of strong complaints voiced on this board.
  • ljgbjgljgbjg Posts: 374
    I know I-80 well driving out to Mountain Lakes from NYC to visit our son, and Rt 15 to Sparta. Our car was incredilbly annoying and "maddening" as the WSJ tester thought of his test car as well. My wife as passenger noticed the VCM and wondered what I was doing with the "gas" - it was on CC! The changes in topography make the VCM have to be VERY active - perhaps those who do not or have not sensed it much are foirtunate to live in areas with flat roads - and their fuel economy better for it as well? I don't know what to tell you - our car "smoothed out" after about 3000 miles - why? No idea - perhaps all the moving parts simply finally got broken in - especially the active engine mounts. Problem is golfrski is right - Honda denies there are any problems and I am sure you will get the answers he got - I know I did - so if there are none, how can they disappear? There is no question for anyone who understands engines and harmonics that going from a V6 to a V4 to an inline 3 is going to create all kinds of balance chaos that will be impossible NOT to feel unless offset somehow by dampers, etc. - thus the Active Engine Mounts. I have to believe logically that they are the biggest culprit for anyone having vibration or "surging" issues, but Honda's denial goes nowhere toward helping resolve anything.. All I can say is I hope your car "breaks in" like ours did - it is not, as someone suggested that it is no longer noticeable - believe me no one is more "in tune" with their car than I am - and it was driving me nuts. I can sense a spark plug misfiring at 60MPH, a stone in a tire, a bubble in a sidewall of a tire, etc. No, there was a definite change in the car and I say it was the AEM. We'll never know though because " the car was operating within normal design".
    Only one person on this board got their car replaced - a coupe in Columbia, SC by Midlands Honda and put him in a 6 speed instead. Honda's website has changed I think - it now reads that the VCM is "NEARLY seamless". I do believe that is a change from earlier. If you would like I would be happy to let you drive my car and I drive yours. Just contact me through this site and my profile.
  • sunnfunsunnfun Posts: 168
    They did that for legal purposes. They know the lawsuits are coming. I'm hoping I'll be the first one, unfortunately it's just a slow process...I've had it with them and the cover up is starting to unravel. I guess they figure it's been a while and no one would pay attention to the marketing change. Guess again.
  • golfrskigolfrski Posts: 262
    They did???? Glad I kep downloaded print outs of their website, brochure and other literature. this will ceratinly help my case and I will fwd on to my supporting cast....
  • golfrskigolfrski Posts: 262
    Folks, Honda indeed altered their website regarding the VCM advertising.. as I predicted they would back in November of 2007. Hopefully those of you that have filed complaints and or sought addl counsel saved your purchasing materials and advertising. It is clear Honda knew this is was not advertised properly and as such revised their marketing efforts. This is a small win for those of us that have been fighting with Honda,, on several fronts. It will be interesting to see if the WSJ, and other journalists comment on this retraction.
  • ljgbjgljgbjg Posts: 374
    WOW!!!!!!! Dead to rights!!! Here is Honda's web site from months ago about VCM -

    . To help keep engine vibration from reaching the cabin in every mode, active engine mounts automatically adjust their firmness to help absorb energy. The transition between the three operating modes is completely seamless and goes unnoticed by the Accord’s passengers.”

    TODAY??!!

    "To help keep engine vibration from reaching the cabin in every mode, active engine mounts automatically adjust their firmness to help absorb energy. The transition between the three operating modes is nearly seamless and goes unnoticed by the Accord’s passengers."

    TA DA!!! I think anyone unhappy with the VCM has a great case against Honda for false advertising and could rescind their purchase. A partial victory for you golfrski - that they changed their advertising is an ADMISSION that the prior advertising was incorrect and misleading. Good luck everyone - I see a huge class action here - some attorney delaing with class actions is bound to pick up on it, along with individual lawsuits.
  • bug4bug4 Posts: 370
    I dont' mean to put a damper on the accomplishment --- Honda clearly has realized that VCM is not seamless and has changed its advertising accordingly. However, there are several reasons this isn't going to make any difference in any lawsuit. First, it may be a "subsequent remedial measure." Public policy supports businesses doing what is right and making their products better/safer without the fear that such improvements may actually make them more liable. So, "subsequent remedial measures" are inadmissible as evidence in court. Second, advertising claims are a difficult ground for liability because of a business' ability to engage in "puffing." Puffing means that a business is allowed to say "ours is the best" without fear of assuming liability if, in fact, their product is not actually the best. Relatedly, I'm not sure anyone could show that their purchase of a 08 V6 Accord was based on the minutia of Honda's advertising. I think it unlikely that a judge or jury would believe that a class of plaintiffs would not have bought an 08 Accord if Honda's advertising would have mentioned that the VCM is "nearly seamless" rather than "completely seamless." My personal opinion is that it would be very hard to show that this advertising language was a basis for the bargain.

    My comments are not intended to be personal to your situations and I think it is an admirable accomplishment to have proof that Honda is, in fact, hearing your complaints. But if I were a class action plaintiff's attorney, I wouldn't touch this case with the proverbial ten-foot-pole.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America: I70 & I75Posts: 18,307
    >The transition between the three operating modes is completely seamless and goes unnoticed by the Accord’s passengers.”


    They say it's sealess and not perceived by the passengers. It doesn't say that the driver doesn't notice it...
  • ljgbjgljgbjg Posts: 374
    Isn't the driver a passenger in the vehicle?

    Merriam Webster - a traveler in a public or private conveyance
  • rkurlanderrkurlander Posts: 58
    I spoke with the general manager of a dealershp today. The 2009 Accords will be available August 15. The VCM issue has been addressed and hopefully fixed.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America: I70 & I75Posts: 18,307
    The driver is driving. The passengers are riding.
  • ljgbjgljgbjg Posts: 374
    Your post is eloquent and seemingly very learned. Are you an attorney?
    I understand the importance of "subsequent remedial measure" of correct a defect and public policy in that regard, and federal rules of evidence. Even in those cases
    evidence of subsequent remedial measures, however, is admissible in some circumstances, such as:

    To show ownership or control of the thing repaired
    To impeach a claim that no such improvements or repairs were possible before the injury occurred

    However, we are not talking about a remedial measure here - we are talking about a change of advertising. There is no public policy issue here about injury and further prevention thereof, like where a traffic light is installed at an intersection because there have been too many fatal accidents there. I would have to disagree that a court would not allow admission into evidence that Honda changed its advertising because it was wrong.
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