Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!





Honda Accord VCM

16364666869127

Comments

  • ljgbjgljgbjg Posts: 374
    How did we get on BMW or Lexus mileage when this is a Honda VCM forum?

    BMW = Break My Wallet I owned one - once - that is why I have never bought another in 20 years and am a loyal Honda fan. They are great when they are running but they are like a thoroughbred race horse - expensive to maintain, have to coddled, and when they break it is fatal - never got left stranded by a car so much in my life. Two weeks in the shop waiting for parts, stranded my wife several times - unacceptable to me in a car. Words of advice - Never buy a car with a tool kit built into the trunk lid - there is a reason for it being there! :P
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    Well, it's not going to go away as long as you and others keep posting about it! :)

    C'mon guys, back to VCM thoughts here, please.
  • cstilescstiles Posts: 465
    Sorry...my (intended to be rhetorical) question got us off tangent. My bad.

    Regarding VCM....it's extremely quiet!

    No new posts or people coming here complaining about VCM. Do a search on the Internet and there is nothing out of the ordinary. Other auto sites are not reporting problems. I talked to my Honda service department this past Tuesday, and they report no major problems. They did acknowledge that some owners are quizzical or confused about how the ECO light works and its relation to cylinder deactivation, but the service manager said they are not getting any complaints, to speak of. There have been a handful of resonance issues with the Odyssey, but nothing out of whack from a reliability/vibration/surging standpoint. But I also live in a relatively small town of 100,000 people.

    The service manager did acknowledge that because of VCM, the car drives differently. This Accord is also the biggest departure from prior models. The ECO light is impossible to ignore, so psychologically it can influence driver behavior or attitudes in ways that few other cars evoke. Ideally, it is getting drivers who care about gas mileage to alter their driving style (ie:drive more slowly or less aggressively) to maximize MPG. On the opposite end of the spectrum, even if the car doesn't surge or vibrate, the constantly flashing ECO light can be perceived to be Big Brother imposing its will on the driver. I can see how it can be annoying to some.

    But we aren't seeing widespread evidence of the severe vibration or surging issues, beyond the handful of complaints that appear to be quite real in those individual cases.

    Honda's sales results for April remain strong. The Accord is selling strongly and can be considered a success in the marketplace. Honda has 3 of the top 13 best selling models in the U.S., with Accord sales up +21.3% (April 07 vs. April 08) and up 1.1% YTD.

    http://online.wsj.com/mdc/public/page/2_3022-autosales.html

    http://usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/cars-trucks/daily-news/080502-Auto-Sales-Hi- - t-10-Year-Low/
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    Again, the subject here is the VCM. Please look for an appropriate discussion for other subjects before changing the subject here. :)

    ljgbjg, "2008 Accord Noisy Tires" #45, 9 May 2008 12:43 pm.
  • ljgbjgljgbjg Posts: 374
    Sorry Pat - thanks for redirecting me!
  • ljgbjgljgbjg Posts: 374
    Like many others with the VCM equipped cars the question that keeps coming up is " Where are the 268 Horses?" Dyno tests have found that the VCM engine fallls behind the 6 speed MT V6 coupe engine by about 30 lb ft of mid range torque.

    The Edmunds road tester's obervations?
    "The ride was smooth enough but I kept wanting a little something from the engine for passing, etc. that it was never able to deliver. It isn't gravely underpowered but it would be nice to have a little more back-up the times I needed it. It is a V6."
    While my car healed itself from the VCM issues - surging, etc. - I continue to be disappointed with its performance - the loss of at least 30 lbs ft of torque in the mid range rpms versus the regular V6 6MT coupe is very noticeable - I had a couple of moments driving this weekend when I called to the engine room for power while cruising at about 50 in ECO mode when I pressed the accelerator to the floor and there was nothing there - no downshift - no power. I took my foot completely OFF the accelerator and slammed it to the floor - ONLY then did it downshift and I get some passing power. The initial reluctance to downshift and respond to a call for power was downright dangerous. GET RID OF THE VCM AND ADD A 6spd AT FOR BETTER MILEAGE HONDA. And let us turn off the VCM and make the tranny a retro fit on the 2008 models too
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    while cruising at about 50 in ECO mode when I pressed the accelerator to the floor and there was nothing there - no downshift - no power.

    If you floored the accelerator at 50 MPH and your car didn't downshift to 2nd or 3rd, you have a serious problem, unless you were exaggerating. I'd be at the dealer, pronto! In my Accords, flooring it at 50 would mean a two or three gear drop (5-2 in my 2006 5-speed auto, 4-2 in my 1996 4-speed auto).
  • ljgbjgljgbjg Posts: 374
    Let me clarify about the power not being there - "pressing" the accelerator to the floor resulted in no downshifting - sure the ECO light went off and you could feel the V6 "power", but no rush of acceleration because it was in 5th or 4th - both of which are overdrives - I wanted 3rd at least. Only by mashing on it did it downshift to a multiplier gear and give me the acceleration I was expecting and demanding. I attribute it to the whole VCM thing. No Honda I have ever owned drives like this car does - that has been the source of a great deal of frustration. I cannot recall what you own - 6 speed coupe or 5 AT Sedan, but much of what the dealership will tell you is "normal" for this car is foreign to every other driving experience I have ever had. Although the car "healed" itself from the annoying highway operation, there are still other aspects of its driveability that are different from previous Hondas I have owned. You have to forget what was "normal" - "normal" is now different. I have never before owned a 6-4-3 operating engine system equipped with grade logic transmission and VSA. And I am not "bashing" Honda or the VCM - it is just different and takes some time to adjust to from what your past experiences may have been.

    And, one reason for buying a Honda in the first place was to not have to be a resident at the dealership. I have owned other cars that gave me more than my fill of that - never with Hondas. It is a nuisance to have to go back every time the car does something "out of the ordinary". This is not an ordinary car - there are many aspects to its driving operation - the VCM, the automatic transmission shift points, upshifting and downshifting - that you will not find in any other car, even GM VCM equipped cars because the systems operate differently - delivery of fuel, valve opening on "dead cylinders", etc.

    So, I was simply agreeing with the Edmunds road tester - driving this car there are times when you call on it for power and it just isn't there. It doesn't perform up to its advertised specs. And neither I nor Edmunds are the only ones to comment on that - other road tests have done the same. :)
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    Regardless of how quickly the pedal got to the floor - an instantaneous boot to the floor or a gradual increase of throttle over a period of seconds - the car should downshift to at least 3rd at 50-70 MPH.

    This is why I think you have a problem.
  • rbbrickrbbrick Posts: 37
    Hi
    I just tried mine twice at 50 with ECO on punched it and it downshifted to 3rd and took off.
    Roger
  • ljgbjgljgbjg Posts: 374
    Yeah - like I said, downshifted only when I punched (mashed) it - simply firmly depressing it did not bring about the desired downshifting. A lesson learned. Called the service department at the dealer - like I thought - "normal" for this car - don't bother bringing it in :P . Like I said in my earlier post - what was "normal" no longer is in VCM world.
  • sunnfunsunnfun Posts: 168
    Got a call from Honda corporate late last week. Was the same person from the previous file a case # with corporate/take it the dealer and it's opertaing normally so we can't find anything wrong episode. I called and left a message as they were not in. I wonder if this is related to my email???? Or are they just following up to get an update? Who knows. As soon as I talk with them I'll post more.
  • dpmeersmandpmeersman Posts: 273
    He's saying that when punched it produced the expected downshift and thrust associated with it. But when pressed, as opposed to punched, a build in speed resulted, but a gradual one, which if your expecting the downshifts and associated torque boost this can get you into trouble when its not delivered. I can't say that I've experienced exactly what he did, but I have on occasion not been aggressive enough with the throttle and found that I will just get a gradual build in speed. With previous cars I've owned my non-aggressive depression to the floor would still have resulted in at least one but usually two drops in gear to build speed for passing, with my 08 V6 I have to leave no room for doubt and mash it, at which point the resulting power boost is quite pleasing and on par if not the exact equal to other V6 sedans in this price range.
    On a recent 300+ mile trip to Maine and back to Mass there were far fewer times that the VCM activity made it's presence known. While I'm not going to say that it has cured itself, it doesn't feel as abrupt in it's on again off again activity. I don't think that it's just me becoming accustomed to it either, I feel that it is actually becoming less hyper or intrusive while it's doing it's thing. With a return of 29 mpg's on that trip I certainly can't complain about the fuel economy.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    You told the dealer "my car won't downshift to a lower gear when FLOORED" and he said this was normal?

    Find a new deal, my friend.
  • ljgbjgljgbjg Posts: 374
    No - I did not tell the dealer that and that is not what I said. dpmeersman got it absolutely right -

    "He's saying that when punched it produced the expected downshift and thrust associated with it. But when pressed, as opposed to punched, a build in speed resulted, but a gradual one, which if your expecting the downshifts and associated torque boost this can get you into trouble when its not delivered. I can't say that I've experienced exactly what he did, but I have on occasion not been aggressive enough with the throttle and found that I will just get a gradual build in speed.'

    The dealer confirmed that simply depressing the accelerator to the floor will not invoke a downshift - but a sharp punch or mash on the accelerator will. You DO have to plan ahead a little bit as dpmeersman also said. I ask again - what are your driving? If you have a 6 speed coupe you have nothing to base our experiences on, and what, like I said, is now "normal". Given the complexity of all the drivetrain components of this car, it is not "normal" by by our historical experiences. Not in a bad way necessarily - but different.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    I have two automatic Honda Accord sedans. I'm not sure why the 6-speed coupe keeps coming up?

    The dealer confirmed that simply depressing the accelerator to the floor will not invoke a downshift

    This is the statement I have a hard time with. In fact, in the owner's manual of my 1996 Accord, it states that "flooring the accelerator" will cause a drop in gears.

    No - I did not tell the dealer that and that is not what I said.

    Except that it is what you said, and I quote:

    I called to the engine room for power while cruising at about 50 in ECO mode when I pressed the accelerator to the floor and there was nothing there - no downshift - no power

    This was your original statement, and is what I was basing my post on. If that original statement wasn't true, then I am REALLY confused! :blush: :confuse:

    I'm not trying to pick on you, I'm picking on your dealer because I truly believe flooring a car at 50 should drop you to at least third, regardless of how quickly the pedal is pressed (instantly, or five seconds to the floor). Just giving it "some" gas won't do the same thing as flooring it.
  • ljgbjgljgbjg Posts: 374
    Ok, let's clear some things up here because you ARE confused.

    First, we are talking about a 2008 Accord Sedan with VCM here. No offense, but because you reference earlier models not equipped with VCM, you cannot possibly relate to our driving experiences. Why references of comparison to the 6 spd MT coupe? Because it is the only 2008 V6 without VCM.

    Second, I quote myself:

    "...when I pressed the accelerator to the floor and there was nothing there - no downshift - no power. I took my foot completely OFF the accelerator and slammed it to the floor - ONLY then did it downshift and I get some passing power. The initial reluctance to downshift and respond to a call for power was downright dangerous."

    "The dealer confirmed that simply depressing the accelerator to the floor will not invoke a downshift"

    That is correct - I don't care what the manual says for your earlier Hondas. With THIS car, you cannot simply depress the accelerator - you need to punch it like dpmeersman said. Simply depressing the accelerator to the floor will merely cause it to go out of ECO and into the V6 mode, but does not cause a downshift out of 5th gear overdrive, and the responsive burst of speed and power I was looking for.

    I am sorry for your being confused - neither I nor dpmeersman can explain it any more clearly I am afraid. He/she certainly understands what I am talking about - because he/she is a fellow VCM owner. :) And I want to make this perfectly clear too - I am not bashing anything - I like my car - simply pointing out that the VCM engine/transmission behaves differently under certain circumstances than previous Hondas, does lack about 30 lbs ft of mid range torque veersus the 6 speed MT car without VCM, and explains in part the Edmund's editor's comments in the long term road test, the genesis of my whole thread of posts, about a seeming lack of power in the 2008 V6 Sedan.
  • yrmacyrmac Posts: 134
    How hard are you "pressing" that accelerator? I mean, this is all relative. If you are in a certain speed and you are just "pressing" the accelerator, the ECM will not downshift due to your vehicle speed sensor. Your speed sensor is probably telling your ECM that the corresponding transmission gear is sufficient enough for your engine powerband hence, no downshift. FYI, there is always a corresponding speed and powerband to each of your tranny's gear. And this is all true for any make of vehicle. Not only with VCM equipped Accord.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    yrmac, he or she says they floored the throttle at 50 MPH and got no downshift.

    If it is really going to the floor as you say, ljgbjg, your car should downshift; period. Whether at 35 MPH or 85 MPH, a downshift should occur when the throttle is floored. I've completely understood ljgbjg's and d-man's posts, for the record. I understand you are saying when you floor it quickly it does downshift, and when flooring it more slowly it doesn't. What I am saying is that it is unsafe for it to do so - and if your service advisor was mine, he wouldn't be for long.

    I'd still talk to another dealer, if you are flooring it (regardless of how quickly you depress the pedal - doesn't matter) and get no downshift.
  • ljgbjgljgbjg Posts: 374
    OMG - I am sorry I said anything to get lectures and these types of questions about my driving. How dare you all? It was a simple statement - how much clearer can it be. dpmeersman tried it and he had the same thing happen with his 2008 Accord V6 w/VCM. The Edmunds editor commented on the car's seeming lack of power. That is how this all got started.

    You can lecture all you want, and that IS what you are doing, and all I have to say is keep it to yourself. geesh - I am a 60 year old man who has owned and driven many a car, including exotic sports cars, and I am being told how a car is supposed to perform by people who don't even know me???? Golly gee whiz - thanks y'all!! FYI, I called two other dealers and got the same response so Honda is either jerking me around or they know their car and how it operates. Yes, I KNOW other cars will downshift if the accelerator is merely depressed to the floor - DUH! - I think I have owned and driven a few. That is NOT how THIS engine/drivetrain/transmission performs - and it IS unique - name one other car with a 6-4-3 VCM operation and grade logic transmission. :confuse: I have had enough of this insulting exchange. :mad: I was trying to be helpful pointing out an experience I had because the lack of accelerative response in an emergency situation could be fatal. This car must be punched hard to get this drivetrain to respond. That is all I was trying to do - warn people and then I get questions like how hard did you depress it??? Maybe you were exaggerating? OWN one before you can say anything about one. Some of you do not qualify to comment at all.
Sign In or Register to comment.