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"Most post 1992 Camrys have sludge problem and will seize" rumor



  • jnowskijnowski Posts: 96
    it's very refreshing to see a person take the logical/rational approach to debunking an overblown statement about "All or Every........"
  • jnowskijnowski Posts: 96
    IMHO the greatest factor between different engines in sludge formation is heat. As oil passes beyond a certain temperature range the oil starts to break down, and actually becomes thicker. Now, while the AVERAGE temperature of oil is kept fairly constant even between different engines, The SPOT temperature in a particular engine may be raising the oil up to or above its breakdown point. As an example, this could occur in a head assembly near an exhaust port with marginal cooling in that area. The oil would start to break down in that one spot and eventually get carried throughout the engine causing "sludge". This of course would be a long term, 30K-100K mi., problem. The advent of aluminum heads has made this a bigger concern due to the superior heat transfer coefficient of aluminim compared to cast iron. The reports of an absence of deposits with synthetic oil, which has superior high temperature characteristics, tends to support this hypothesis.
  • wenyuewenyue Posts: 558
    Thank you. :) I work in the pharmaceutical research field. Ananlyzing data is part of the business. And yes, I believe the "most" claim is way over blown.

    Over heating is one contributing factor. But bad oil filter and bad engine oil is another. Penzoil is (was?) known to cause sludge because of the additive they put in. It's something called "paraphin" (not sure about the spelling), I think it was used to increase the viscosity of the oil. But it also known to gum up your engine and cause sludge. I will look into the matter further.
  • aquaticaquatic Posts: 12
    I followed the recommendation of oil change interval by Consumer Reports:

    How Often?

    The long-time mantra of auto mechanics has been to change your oil every 3,000 miles. Most automakers recommend an oil change every 7,500 miles (and a specific time interval) for "normal" driving, and every 3,000 miles for "severe" driving (frequent trips of less than four or five miles, stop-and-go traffic, extended idling, towing a trailer, or dusty or extremely cold conditions). Many motorists' driving falls into one or more of those "severe" categories.

    In our survey, almost two-thirds of our readers said they had their oil changed every 3,000 miles or less. They may be following the thinking expressed by one of our staffers: "I have my oil changed every 3,000 miles because that's what my father did, and all his cars lasted for many years." To determine whether frequent oil changes really help, we changed the oil in three cabs every 3,000 miles, using Pennzoil 10W-30. After 60,000 miles, we compared those engines with those from our base tests of the same oil, changed every 6,000 miles. We saw no meaningful differences...

    The bottom line: Modern motor oils needn't be changed as often as oils did years ago. More frequent oil changes won't hurt your car, but you could be spending money unnecessarily and adding to the nation's energy and oil-disposal problems. Even in the severe driving conditions that a New York City taxi endures, we noted no benefit from changing the oil every 3,000 miles rather than every 6,000. If your driving falls into the "normal" service category, changing the oil every 7,500 miles (or at the automaker's suggested intervals) should certainly provide adequate protection. (We recommend changing the oil filter with each oil change.)

    I think my downfall with the 1994 Camry is that my wife drives very short distances so she had frequent cold starts and short distances contributed to sludge. I noticed on toyotas website that their maintenance schedule recommends oil changes every 5,000 to 7,500 miles too.
  • Aquatic: I agree that oil can easily be good up to 7,500 miles. However, I wasen't talking about mileage, I was talking about time. Time is the killer when talking about oil absorbing contaminants from the atmosphere. Six months is a long time with the same oil in your car (you said you changed it twice a year). I know several major manufacturers recommend oil changes every 3 months or 7,500 miles, normal driving schedule, whichever comes first (including GM and Ford). This should apply to an import also.
  • liufeiliufei Posts: 201
    There's a bunch of missing post. Did the host delete them or something??
  • fxashunfxashun Posts: 747
    "My" topic made the list. I'm so proud. This is like my little baby. <<sob>>

    Anyway...I have answered every question it's you who obviously in dire need of ritalin or something so you can comprehend. If all you have done is open your consumer reports and found those tired statistics you once again "need to get out more". There are more people every week coming in here saying they have had a sludged Camry just like I said there would be.

    I like the fact that you have to go into an entirely different topic to find stuff to use in here. It good to know that you put this issue so high on your life's priority list even though you have claimed to be leaving three or four times now. Why don't you trot on back over to those early Leganza posts and you'll read why I'm in that forum.

    As far as my "double standard" I defended Honda until we found we go again...THE V6 HONDA DID HAVE A TRANSMISSION PROBLEM. Geez...You are about clueless. Like I said if you find a widespread problem with the 4 cylinder Accord tranny maybe we can debate that or maybe that there are present problems with the Accord transmission. I'll say that one more time for the slow ones out there THE V6 ACCORD DID HAVE A TRANSMISSION PROBLEM. This is starting to sound like a discussion with cyw0. Repetition,
    repetition. If the Accord problem is all you have to debate with you should abide by your previous statements and be "outta here" because this is the Camry sludge topic.

    Sling mud????Bash???I have not bashed the Camry...There are two presently in my family. I think it's time I restate my true assertion because the name of this topic is not what I said. It was a sarcastic statement by Cywo.
  • fxashunfxashun Posts: 747
    Back in Camry 1 a person came in the say that has Camry had sludged and siezed. He asked is anyone had heard of Camry's sludging. My fiancee said that she had. Blah blah blah and here we are. A cut and paste from March(post 510 Camry 1)..
    "I don't recall Mitsu (AcuraGrl) ever saying that the sludge problem would cause engines to fail. She only said that the engines do have a tendency to sludge. Especially after high miles. Maybe if you change your oil every 3000 miles it won't but if the manual says change it every 5000-7500 miles it should not be necessary."

    I clearly said that the engines probably would not fail only that they have a tendency to sludge. As far as "most or "high percentage" that's subjective I guess so whatever.

    So here we go: In my experience I have found that a high percentage of higher mileage Camry 2.2L 4 cylinder engine have sludge build-up to some extent. I suggest that anyone looking to purchase a higher mileage Camry (80,000+) check the oil cap and inner valve cover for a black substance coating the insides.

    That's what I have said all along.
  • fxashunfxashun Posts: 747
    Wenyue the Leganza post 169 is from JANUARY???!!!People had recently started posting about the transmission problem. Please post in context. Also could ya quit weakening your argument by using that Honda transmission reference? You've been using it since March (post 525 Camry 1). That makes the fact that I still have to answer that same comment here in July even more [non-permissible content removed]-inine.

    Liufei:Deja goes back at least a couple years. You have to refine your search options. Go back and check again. But you still aren't getting my point. I said the Camry 4 cylinder is the only engine with multiple (as in many) references to sludge. I don't mean just references I mean people who say that their engine HAS sludge. There are several here on edmunds. Heck there are 2 or three at least so far in here.
  • wenyuewenyue Posts: 558
    How did I weaken my statement by bring into the light how you down played the number of Accord's transmission problem while exaggerating Camry's sludge problem?

    As my calculation have show, there are more reports of Accord's transission problem (about 4 times more), than Camry's sludge problem.

    What I have a problem is that you (as I have quoted your own words) down played the number of Accord's transmission problem by calling them "very few". And then, turns around and called the Camry's problem "most 92+ camry". That's where I have a problem.

    Can we get the numbers straight here? And use one standard? So if you called the 20+ reports of Accord's problem "very few", then anyone would reason the 5 reports of Camry's sludge problme is "even fewer". I don't see how you go from "very few" to "most". Numbers isn't biased, they are just numbers.
  • cyw0cyw0 Posts: 27
    fxashun can only repost two of his five old cases from one month ago, and then try to say "I can find these all day about Camrys" like he is proud of his finding.

    I'll say that again. If Camrys really have a design problem. We will easily find reports everywhere, not just that 5 cases after searching the whole net. Those (3.2 millions - 5) Camrys owners are definitely not just lucky compared to those 5 owners. And anyone with car knowledge knows that maintenance (oil/filter change) is the key factor to the sludge problem.
  • fxashunfxashun Posts: 747
    I have to explain that.
    I already did in post 13 and 21. And probably many times before that. I'm going to save myself a lot of typing by referring you to posts where I have already explained your repetitious questions. Like I've said before, you got nothing to say.

    You want to talk about dodging questions though. I have a few for you.
    Why is the Camry the only car with so many sludge references?

    Why don't other cars have this tendency? Not even the Corrolla or older Camrys before they changed the engine.

    Why do you refer all of you posts to me when there are now others who also have sludge testimonials here?

    Why are there others with sludge testimonials in here if there's no problem?

    Why do almost all the references say that the car was well taken care of?

    Why are you still talking about the Accord transmission problem?

    Why do you ask the same question over and over and over and ov.....?

    Why don't you find another source of information than Consumer Reports?

    And most importantly....Why are you still here? I guess you aren't leaving huh?

    There's some questions for YOU to dodge there guy.

    Hi there to all of you that have e-mailed me.:-)
  • fxashunfxashun Posts: 747
    The people who are here on their own. Why are you also referring to me when there are what 3 or four personal testimonials. I guess they are lying or something huh?
    You want to talk about funny....I think it's funny to see you ignore those posts and say that I have no more information. It's all around you if you open your eyes.

    pun not intended.
  • cyw0cyw0 Posts: 27
    on Camry topic, and that's where this whole thing get started. However, only one of them is a I4, the other one is a V6. Since in the beginning of this topic, there is a Lexus ES300 owner complained about sludge, just wondering why fxashun won't go to Solara topic and ES300 topic to make the same claim, since they share the same V6 engine. Since I4 engine sells far more than V6 engine (9 v.s. 1 for Camry, probably 7 v.s. 1 after adding Solara and ES300), 1 seized V6 engine proabably weighs 7 times than 1 seized I4 engine. Just wondering what the response will be from the Solara and ES300 owners if they see fxashun's comments???
  • cyw0cyw0 Posts: 27
    However, he said his Camry does not have sludge. Just give us enough reports to back up you "most ..." statement (apparently for you 5 or 10 reports out of 3.2 million Camrys is enough for "most ...").

    So are you going to continue to say "Most of 92+ Camrys have sludge problem" or not? If not, then it can be the end of discussion.
  • fxashunfxashun Posts: 747
    Can't find any other engine that has the track record of the L4 in the Camry the same hold true for the V6 in the Camry. It doesn't sludge up at the rate that the Camry does. What did you expect me to say? Which goes on the question the "Camry owners are more fanatic" theory. I guess V6 Camry owners either don't care or they don't sludge. Either way that doesn't remove from the fact that the L4 has a marked tendency to sludge.
    Hmm...You failed to mention those posts that are here that I referred you to. Curious. And you claim I dodge questions. Tsk.Tsk.
    Here's a few for you.

    Why are trying to change the subject to the V6?

    When did I(as in Fxashun) say anything about the V6 referring to sludge?

    Then why did you?

    Why did you try to turn the lack of discussion about the V6 into an argument?

    By the way if I run across enough material to warrant discussion of that V6 I'll be sure to post it.
  • fxashunfxashun Posts: 747
    In post 105 I thought I was very clear in what I have been stating. HOOKED ON PHONICS man. I cut and pasted all the way back from Camry 1. YOU are the one who made up the title of this forum not me. I would have said "A high percentage a tendency....without the seize part. That part you made up yourself there Cyw0.

    I guess you also didn't read all of Delray's post. Let's get a little cut and paste action here.

    It was the service advisor at the Toyota
    dealership that mentioned the possibility of sludge when I brought the car in with the blue smoke problem. I didn't prompt him; he simply said the first step would be to remove the valve cover to check for sludge. It seems to me that Toyota knows there is a potential problem with the 4-cylinder engine.

    Talk about selective reading.

    Maybe it's dyslexia. How's this. SCINOHP NO DEKOOH
  • cyw0cyw0 Posts: 27
    "Most 92+ Camry have sludge problem" or not? That's why this topic exists and that's why you are here. If yes, give us enough reports out of those 3.2 million Camrys. If not, end of this topic.

    You found 5 reports, how many reports you want to count here? 4 even including 210delray? Didn't I always say "those 5 or 10 cases". OK, I will just round it and give you 10, is that enough? Just give us enough reports out of those 3.2 million Camrys.
  • cyw0cyw0 Posts: 27
    why are you bother to argue with anyone who doesn't agree to it? If you still support it, then give us enough of reports to back it up. If you won't support it now, like I said it can be the end of this topic. It's just that easy.

    If you want to change to "high percentage" or whatever else, just create you own topic. But again, anyone can ask you to give enough reports to support your "high percentage" statement.
  • fxashunfxashun Posts: 747
    I'm just starting to have fun. Like I said before(once again you failed to read)we never actually said the engines WOULD seize but they might. And I have said high percentage at least since post 105 in Camry 1 a long time ago. But I guess you didn't read that.

    So since I never said that I don't have to support it.

    I have found enough posts to develop reasonable doubt. In a civil case, which this would be considered, I wouldn't have to bring in every Camry owner since 1992. It's totally ignorant of you to think that I would ask every Camry owner that has bought a Camry. I would only have to show that the Camry has a much greater propensity to sludge than any other car. That was easy since Camrys sludge up more than any other modern vehicle.

    If you don't think I'm right show me another vehicle with this tendency. You haven't yet and I made that challenge a long time ago.

    So in closing I say that no I don't have a million reports of sludged Camrys. But I bet you don't have more than four reports of ANY other single engine that also has sludge.
This discussion has been closed.